#103 - Mary Purdy @ Nutrient Density Alliance - Regen’s Nutrition Advantage: What We Know & Where We’re Headed

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #103 - Regen’s Nutrition Advantage: What We Know & Where We’re Headed - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 00:00:13
Welcome to the ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for brands, retailers, investors, and other food system stakeholders to learn about the consumer brands supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my cohost, AC, who's gonna take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:34
On this episode, we have Mary Purdy, who is the Managing Director of the Nutrient Density Alliance. The nutrient density alliance's purpose is to ignite awareness and mobilize action around the nutritional benefits and improve food quality of soil building regenerative agriculture to drive demand for a more sustainable food system and improve human health outcomes. You've heard us talk a lot about how the increased nutrient density of regenerative foods will be a powerful marketing mechanism to increase demand for regenerative products and spore more adoption of regenerative agriculture. Well, Mary and her team at the NDA are at the forefront of those efforts. In this episode, Mary shares powerful insights on the science linking healthier soil to more nutrient dense food, the urgent need for research and clinical trials, and why dietitians, farmers, and brands must work together. We explore the regulatory landscape, the importance of using clear consumer language, and how the industry can avoid greenwashing while advancing nutrient density claims. We also tackle some big questions like, why aren't dieticians and food service professionals being trained to understand the connection between farming practices and nutrition?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:34
What practical steps can brands take to communicate nutrient density without regulatory risk? And how can Regeneron brands get health care influencers involved to drive more demand? We're talking phytochemicals, phytonutrients, flavonoids, and all the other fun things at the intersection of soil health, human health, and regenerative marketing. Let's dive in. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the ReGen Brands Podcast. Very excited today to have our friend, Mary Purdy from the Nutrient Density Alliance joining us. So welcome, Mary.

Mary Purdy - 00:02:15
Thank you so much, AC. Always good to be here.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:17
Appreciate it. Yeah. Excited to have you. I'm flying solo today. No Kyle, but Mary and I are still gonna have lots of fun. Yeah. And this is an interesting episode. Right? It's a not it's a non brand episode, but Mary and her team are doing some really important work and definitely wanna make sure that our audience is familiar with what y'all have going on. So, Mary, let's let's just start really high level overview for people that maybe aren't familiar with the Nutrient Density Alliance. What what are y'all? What do y'all do?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:35
Fill us in.

Mary Purdy - 00:02:44
Will do. Thank you for asking. So the Nutrient Density Alliance is essentially a program of the Soil and Climate Alliance and also a a sister organization to the Soil and Climate Initiative. Our mission overall is, of course, to restore soil health, to advance regenerative agriculture, and, connect food with farming and human well-being. And specifically, the NDA or the Nutrient Density Alliance is a collaborative network, of stakeholders from the food industry, the agricultural sector, and the nutrition health and food is medicine field, and we are building that case for the nutritional advantages of regenerative agriculture.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:20
Yeah. Sorely needed. And I really appreciate y'all's leadership, and we definitely gotta give a shout out to Tina Owens and her, you know, being the great catalyst, I think, to this work originally. And, Mary, you followed really well in her footsteps and what y'all have done with the white paper and many other things. I mean, we're we're members and very proud to be and have found the the membership programming really useful to date. But before we get into all things nutrient density alliance, I think you have a really interesting background, Mary, and we need more people with your type of background kind of making this connection between soil health and human health. So share with folks just where you come from into this work, why why it was important to you, and and kinda your journey to get here.

Mary Purdy - 00:04:02
Okay. I'm gonna start a little bit further back just because I think it's something notable, which is that before I became a dietitian nutritionist, I was actually in the theater. So I was somebody who was working, performing, doing stand up, improv, sketch comedy, musical theater, a little bit of everything. That is a racket of a career, at least it was for me. But I did feel like, gosh, maybe I can save people, by helping them improve their diet. So I became a a dietitian nutritionist and really worked with, what I call of, like, a food is medicine approach, functional nutrition, integrative medicine, and worked with thousands of patients over about twelve or thirteen years to help them understand the relationship between nutrition and food to, you know, prevent disease, to address disease, and in many cases, even reverse disease. So I was doing that for for many years, and also teaching and teaching classes again, like, you know, performing nutrition, education.

Mary Purdy - 00:04:50
Because sometimes nutrition gets dry, you need to infuse, like, a little bit of, like, a little humor into, the broccoli conversation. Yeah. And I started realizing, gosh, I'm tired. It's hard to talk to people one on one, and the world is falling apart. We've got a climate crisis in addition to a health crisis. And the food system and agricultural system, which is also having an impact on all of the chronic diseases that I'm seeing my patients get into, is also destroying the planet.

Mary Purdy - 00:05:16
And wouldn't it be interesting if we could actually change how we grow and produce food to not only serve the environment, mitigate the climate crisis, but also improve public health? And how do we do that, by talking about the nutritional value of farming and producing food in a way that actually is better for the environment and that serves human health. So I thought, gosh, instead of talking to one person, let me talk to a whole bunch of people, and let me talk to a bunch of people who are in, like, the nutrition and dietetics and health field so that they can then go out and talk about this stuff. Can reach so many more people that way. And then, you know, I kept on realizing, AC, that every time I would go to a a conference or a summit or be at an event, no one was talking about nutrition. Everyone was talking about, oh, sustainability, the food system has to change, but no one was talking about the fact that nutrition actually makes a difference in, our health and that the way that we grow our food actually makes a difference in nutrition.

Mary Purdy - 00:06:12
So that's how I transitioned to being more of like a nutrition and sustainability advisor for brands and businesses and doing podcasting and writing and education and teaching about this stuff, and then landing at the nutrient density alliance as the Managing Director. And side note, I also teach at the Culinary Institute of America.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:43
Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:06:44
David, I work for the CIA. They have a, a sustainable food systems program, a master's program, and I teach sustainable diets and public health and also teach their capstone, course. So so, yeah, I have my fingers dipped in in many different areas, but I I'm I'm I'm loving it. If this is the time to be in this space for sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:05
Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you're the perfect person or one of the perfect people to kinda come at this intersection. There's some of that background.

Mary Purdy - 00:07:12
You know

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:13
what I mean? And, I'm curious other than just the, the theatrical career maybe not having the viability that you wanted to have or the right lifestyle, was there a personal health concern or familial health concerns, or you're just seeing people having health problems that wanted you to get into dietetics, or what was it?

Mary Purdy - 00:07:30
That's a great question. And, yeah, I I I definitely did. I mean, first of all, I've been really passionate about food and nutrition since I was, like, 12 years old. I was reading the New York Times wellness section way back when Jane Brody was was, was one of the OGs talking about that. And I I really wanted to live to be a hundred at least, and I still do. And so I thought, I think nutrition is actually the way, to do that. But then my dad got really sick and actually got a pretty horrible disease called, meningococcemia, which is basically shuts down your organs, and he wound up, with sepsis and was in the hospital and lost both of his, his legs from the the knee down. And what was interesting to me was that the program at the hospital where he was, where he was stationed, if you wanna call it that, I felt like no one was talking about diet.

Mary Purdy - 00:08:09
And no one was talking about how when a body has shut down, is it completely inflamed, and the immune system is going nuts, no one was saying, hey. You know what? Nutrition might actually be beneficial for this healing process, for speeding it up or helping ensure, like, the best outcome for him. And I thought, gosh. This seems like a really missed opportunity. What Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:08:36
What would I say if I were in this position and at working at a hospital and someone came in and we're dealing was dealing with this? How could I change that? So that that for me was like a real and wake up moment, you know, seeing my dad sort of slowly disappear. And and then later after he got out of the hospital, you know, I was I was starting to read up on on food and nutrition as a as a as a mode for for healing the body and, you know, got him got him going hard on quinoa and kale and he's he's still kicking twenty five years ago. Twenty five years later, he, you know, he was given, like, people thought he might not last for another five, ten years, but he's, he's doing great. He's almost 90.

Mary Purdy - 00:09:12
Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:21
That's amazing. Yeah. That's great. Wow. Yeah. Hospital food is such a disgrace in this country.

Mary Purdy - 00:09:27
Oh, it's

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:27
I mean and there's some outliers. There's some people doing a really good work with local organic regenerative healthy food, but, you know, the vast, vast majority is still just insane that we think this is gonna heal someone or this is what we should be feeding to people that are Yeah. In in poor health.

Mary Purdy - 00:09:43
It makes no sense. It's it's it's such a huge missed opportunity. And and and that's one of the things I'm hoping we can talk about today is the opportunity that lives within the health care system for regenerative agriculture.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:54
Yeah. I definitely wanna make sure we talk about the health care dynamic, and I and I know we will. Just to give people more of a background on what the NDA is working on, and I'll audience, I'll refer to the nutrient density alliance short as NDA throughout the episode. Mhmm. You know, we hear we hear about this term nutrient density, and you and you mentioned there was this long time where no one was really talking about nutrition. I feel like it's still probably that way, but within the bubble that you and I are both in, there is this proliferation of discussion and attention to nutrient density. And it's kind of, like, perceived as the silver bullet that might solve all of our problems and make it really easy for food to be differentiated by its nutritional quality and then linked to the agricultural practices.

Mary Purdy - 00:10:36
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:10:37
But maybe let's just start with a basic question, Mary. It's like, what how does how does the NDA define nutrient density, or what does that term mean to the NDA, and how's it shaped the programming that y'all are working

Mary Purdy - 00:10:48
on? Yeah. And and I think it's important to recognize that there isn't necessarily an agreed upon definition by all parties who are talking about nutrient density. And believe me Yeah. There's a lot of people talking about nutrient density. It comes up all the time. And we're not

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:02
It's just like regen ag.

Mary Purdy - 00:11:03
You know,

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:03
a lot of people talking about it, no agreed upon definition.

Mary Purdy - 00:11:05
Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. And I think it's it's also been, considered this this way of this equation of, like, how many nutrients are in a food compared to the the the calories that are into that food. And and I that's not how we're looking at it from the nutrient density alliance perspective. It's it's it's more of a simple framework, which is that nutrient dense foods are foods that are rich in those nutrients like, fiber, vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, that we know in the literature and the research support and optimize physiological functions of the body, including the human gut microbiome, which I know we'll talk about, and that are free from or low in those ingredients or compounds that have been demonstrated again in the literature and the research to be less optimal to health, including our chemicals as well as those, you know, the NOVA definition of formulations of food derived substances and additives, industrially processed. And the thing that's key about this is that these nutritional qualities are absolutely influenced by how food is grown and the agricultural practices, that are being used in its production.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:17
Okay. Mary, I gotta ask my first dumb dumb guy question of the episode.

Mary Purdy - 00:12:20
Please.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:21
Could you could you do, like, a really simple and and easy as possible explanation of, like, what's the difference between a macro, a micro, and a phytonutrient?

Mary Purdy - 00:12:29
Oh, I like that question. Alright. So macronutrients are your carbs, your fats, your proteins. Micro So

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:38
like the stuff we're used to seeing on packaging? Yes. Macronutrients. Okay.

Mary Purdy - 00:12:42
Got it. And then micronutrients are the vitamins and your minerals. Like your potassium and your calcium and your your folate and your vitamin c. Right? Phytonutrients are the nutrients that specifically come from plants, and they're essentially sit how they synthesize that in response to the agricultural practices that are used or the environment in which they are growing. These are phyto, meaning plant nutrients nutrients. So nutrients that are produced by the plant.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:15
But so animal products don't have phytonutrients?

Mary Purdy - 00:13:17
They actually do. That's great, point because what do animals eat? Hopefully, they eat plants. Right. And, actually, there's a there's a conversion process in animals that we don't actually have in humans for certain phytonutrients where animals can convert certain phytonutrients that they're munching on through the forage that they're consuming that that get converted to a phytonutrient that can only be found in animal meat. Mhmm. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:40
Wow. Okay. Alright. That was that was very helpful. Now I feel like I can go to a dinner party and explain that well enough myself. And not feel not feel as dumb in a lot of these conversations that we have in our industry. So thank you.

Mary Purdy - 00:13:52
Glad you asked that question. No. Thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:56
So we just talked about kinda different nutrients. We talked about how the NDA thinks about, what nutrient density is. Like, you know, when you all as a leadership team and you as the Managing Director sit there and say, the NDA was created to accomplish what?

Mary Purdy - 00:14:10
Oh.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:14:10
Sure. It's maybe hard to wrap it up into one or two sentences, but, like, what is that? What what is that grand goal that the organization was created to to go accomplish?

Mary Purdy - 00:14:19
Yeah. I think initially, we brought people together, CPG groups specifically because of that potential that they had, especially when they had some kind of regenerative agriculture initiative to leverage the conversation around the higher nutrient density of foods that are grown using regenerative agriculture because that was the data, was showing that, you know, consumers were interested in that. That has shifted a little bit because we've expanded our membership, to include more farmers who can really talk about those practices and who we can actually connect with brands, but also those who are in that nutrition field, the food service industry, the health industry, food is medicine sectors who can understand, and and really under and really get that nutrition is so foundational for health. So we wanna try to educate people in that sector to, make sure that they feel like they're experts on that soil health and nutrient density and human health connection because they have such a broad reach. They could influence, you know, millions of meals that are served, every single day from procurement practices, what's on the menu, you know, what is being recommended in health care settings. So I think it's it's it's really moving in that direction to to to make sure that we're connecting brands and farms with those who are in the nutrition sector who really get it.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:15:40
Yeah. And you'd be extremely well equipped to help us make that happen, obviously, with your background.

Mary Purdy - 00:15:45
I hope so. I hope so. That's my goal. It's my mission.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:15:49
Well, it's a it's it's a good it's a good flag too because as someone that's had and has an autoimmune disease and has had, you know, work with naturopathic doctors and dietitians and things, when I have that conversation as a patient with that health care provider, it affects how I buy every brand that I buy. Yeah. When a brand markets to me about regenerative agriculture or about their products and the linkage to regen ag and making them more nutritious, it only affects maybe high by that category or that specific brand.

Mary Purdy - 00:16:15
Yep.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:16:16
And, obviously, we're huge proponents of figuring out that second thing, but also acknowledging, like, the leverage of doing both of those at the same time and using those health care professionals as these storytellers or evangelists or whatever word, you know, educators we wanna use, like Yeah. A conscious more higher leverage influence, like you were saying. Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:16:35
Yeah. And I mean, I and I I would I would ask too, like, go even further than the health care profession and somebody talking to somebody one on one. Right? You've got a food service director maybe at a hospital who doesn't who doesn't even have to say, hey. You should buy this brand, but who just knows that this brand or this farm is is creating a food product that is more nutritious and is ultimately serving the environment. And that's what they're procuring to be served on the, on the in the cafeteria lineup, whether the consumers know it or not. They know it. They know the value of it, and that may, really help to spread the word about, these foods and and make sure that there's a greater market if they can, be be bringing in more and more of those food products that are grown regeneratively or produced with regenerative in mind.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:22
Yeah. Why do you think that group is less engaged than we feel like maybe they should be or that they could be in this work in it? You know? Yeah. Single operator, solo naturopathic doctor, and dietitian maybe is different than a food service director in a big hospital chain. Right? So we'll acknowledge there's some nuance there. But Definitely. Categorically, you know, what's what's the issue there? Why why is there not more happening?

Mary Purdy - 00:17:44
I I can tell you big time, it's lack of education. I I mean, I actually just gave a webinar this morning to a bunch of dietitians. And I said, how is it possible that we are trained about nutrition? And yet we know nothing about the medium in which food is grown that dictates the nutritional value of that plant and the food. Right. That is nuts. That is, again, like a huge miss and a huge opportunity. There's just a lack of education about it.

Mary Purdy - 00:18:06
So I think people don't get that, but once they understand it, once we can make that connection for them that when food is grown in soil that is healthier, that it actually has a huge implications for the nutritional quality of that food, specifically those phytonutrients that are so beneficial to human health, that is going to dictate and change how those dietitians, whether they are in retail, corporate wellness, you know, snap, public health, academia, policy, it's gonna dictate and change how those people interact with the food system as a result. Mhmm. I also think that, like, you know, another piece of this is is is food access. Right? Very often this is the pushback that I get from dietitians who are like, listen, Mary, one out of ten Americans gets the reg reg the the recommended, fruits and vegetables. I can't I can't be thinking about regenerative. I can't be thinking about saying that or Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:19:03
You know, one of the questions asked today was was what about the affordability piece? Right? So that there's a big piece around that that I think is a is a point of friction and a barrier, which is why I think if people can be educated on a bigger scale that someone working as Sodexo or Aramark or, you know, a huge facility that is serving millions of meals per day or an institution or a k through 12. If it's just what's on the plate, if it's just what's in the cafeteria line, if it's what's on the menu, that is, I think just a a bigger piece than saying, hey. You should you should eat more regeneratively grown vegetables from your farmers market, which has value as well, but think this just is a different pathway.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:51
Yeah. Like, make it the default. Make it much more accessible. Make it Exactly. You know, affordable, all the things. Yeah. For sure. Okay. Mary, let's let's just talk about, like I'm gonna state my general understanding of something, and I would like you as the expert to either edit or add to it or tell me I'm crazy or not. Right?

Mary Purdy - 00:20:07
Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:08
So I think what we're here to talk about and why the NDA exists in a lot of ways is we're trying to link these agricultural practices to the nutrition outcomes.

Mary Purdy - 00:20:16
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:16
Correct?

Mary Purdy - 00:20:17
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:17
And my understanding of that as someone that's really focused on CPG marketing of those features and benefits, you know, when when a product has return of ingredients is we do have substantial, peer reviewed research and science that says there is that linkage. We don't have specific peer reviewed research and science for every ingredient, every product, but we have enough to go, legally and substantially tell the more macro story. Right? And then on the but we but we still have more to do there. On a micro side, there's obviously things that individual brands, supply chains, farmers, people like Adacious, etcetera, can do. But I guess not a great way of teeing up the question, but the question would just be, what is the general state of this whole linkage between the agriculture practices and nutrition outcomes? Like, where where are we at with that?

Mary Purdy - 00:21:11
I think the theme that is most important to focus on is the health of the soil. There is absolutely zero doubt that the nutritional quality of food is absolutely dependent on the health of the soil. Like, that is just

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:26
Right.

Mary Purdy - 00:21:27
Fact. And there's there's no disputing that. Food starts with the soil. The nutritional quality of our food is dependent on the quality of the soil. I mean, that is a sound bite that is indisputable. Now it might depend on which region, it might depend on which crop, it might depend on environmental factors. But in general, when soil is healthy and nutrient rich, so, are the plants that grow in it. So I think we can't just say practices. Right? We can't just say Yeah. Regenerative agriculture leads to higher nutrient density. That is no longer possible to really say because Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:21:52
Anyone can say they're doing regenerative agriculture, and we know there's a little bit of greenwashing that happens. But I think what we can say is the practices that build the health of the soil and have these outcomes, when those outcomes are in play, and that would be increased microbial diversity, for example, larger amounts of soil organic matter, better soil structure. When those are in play, the research strongly indicates that nutrition is higher as a result because of those relationships between the microbes and the plant, because the structure of the soil allows those microbes to work, because the organic matter actually makes the nutrition or the nutrients in the soil more available to the plant. That is is science. That is that is just fundamental and foundational to this conversation. Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:22:46
Does that help in terms

Anthony Corsaro - 00:22:55
Yeah. It helps. And I'm I'm hearing Tina in my head, in many conversations or interviews or presentations where she would very demonstrably say, you know, we are past that point. We we actually don't need any more science to make that fundamental kind of assertion. On the micro side, which I alluded to earlier, it sounds like we need some more there. But the macro, like, healthy soil equals healthy food, like, we're we're there Right. Which is great.

Mary Purdy - 00:23:21
Yeah. For I think for sure. And I think that that, you know, the the the issue, for many for many brands and businesses and and practitioners is how do we explain that in a sound bite where people don't start falling asleep? How do we how do we help people to understand the what the word soil even means? I mean, ten years ago, I you know, I'm I'm working in nutrition. I'm not thinking about soil. So how do we make that that interesting? And then how do we actually talk to people about it in in in a way that helps them to understand the health impact. Right?

Mary Purdy - 00:23:49
I mean, back when I was working with patients, one of the things that I asked them was, why are you here? Right? What what how can I help you? Right? What's your pain point? So not necessarily saying, oh, you're you're eating too much of this. You're not eating enough of that. Let me tell you what to do.

Mary Purdy - 00:24:03
But more like, how can I help you? What what's what's the most difficult thing about, you know, your life? Are you tired? Are you, struggling with digestive issues? Are you dealing with inflammation? If we can help to speak to consumers and, again, this, you know, the health care sector and the the food service industry, if we can help them identify what the biggest pain points are, then then transitioning to, to getting more of these, nutrient dense and nutrient rich, phytochemical rich foods, I think is gonna be much more, much more of a of a of a feasible option.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:24:47
So I'm hearing and, obviously, I have I have a little bit of a a cheat cheating into this because I'm a member. Right? So I I know a little bit more than basically the the regular person who's listening to this that might not be I'm hearing, communications, like training and and and research kind of relaying. I'm hearing, like, stakeholder technical assistance to help with applying, getting this message out, whether I am a food service operator or a brand or a dietitian. Give me just, like, what what is the NDA working on? Like, what what is it, and how would you how would you just list that off and break that down?

Mary Purdy - 00:25:21
Awesome. Yeah. We we have about four priorities right now. So number one is is the research. We have an incredible research repository, which is always building, because brands, businesses, farms, people in general want to know what the science is. From that research repository, we're working on communication tools and talking points so that you can take talking points, you know, similar simple things like food grown in healthier soil tends to have higher levels of nutrients. Right? And then what's the research? What's the reference that you can point to if you're giving a presentation or putting it on your blog? Lesson number one is there are research repository.

Mary Purdy - 00:25:52
Number two is this roots to wellness initiative, which is, again, bringing in people who are in the health, wellness, food as medicine industry, because food as medicine is absolutely exploding. So how do we get those people connected with brands? How do we get those people connected with farms so that they can say, hey. Food is only medicine when it's grown in this way that actually has benefits to the nutritional value of that food. Let's make sure that any food is medicine initiatives or folks in the retail dietetics sector are connecting with brands who are creating foods and food products that are actually nutritious and, you know, can be medicinal medicinal. So that's our roots to wellness initiative. Number three is this communications piece. Right? We brands wanna know. They they get it. They understand that soil helps with nutrition.

Mary Purdy - 00:26:35
But how do they talk about that and how have they been talking about it, and how can they learn from one another. Right? A lot of brands are doing a great job on this. A lot of farms are doing a great job. A lot of food as medicine programs are doing a great job talking about this. It's amazing.

Mary Purdy - 00:26:59
And so what we're doing is we're creating what we're calling our learning labs, and these are gonna be these collaborative workspaces where a brand, and a farm and a foodist medicine program are coming together in a space and presenting. Hey. Here's what we're doing. Here's, you know, how we define regenerative agriculture. Here's how we make sure that we're, you know, we're accountable to what regenerative agriculture actually is. Here's our product. Here's how we market it. Maybe here's some nutrient density testing that we've done. Here are the results. Here's how it might relate to human health.

Mary Purdy - 00:27:29
Here's where we've had some successes, and here's where we're challenged. Here are our barriers. Then the people who are in that audience are learning from that brand, that that, farm, that food use medicine program, and then we workshop it. Oh, this is great. Like, this is really working, but this piece that you're having problems with, let's workshop and figure out how we can make that better. You know, how we can bring this person's brainpower from this sector to this, brands, issue and friction point and learn together and co create this.

Mary Purdy - 00:27:59
So that's another piece that we're doing. And then, lastly, what are our other give me one second to make sure that I've got all of our, pieces here.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:25
I got you down for a big three right now. The research repository, roots to wellness, the communications work, which you talked about the learning labs kind of underneath that.

Mary Purdy - 00:28:33
I got the last one.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:35
Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:28:36
Our last, project is working with the fabulous and wonderful Edacious, the nutrient analysis lab. We actually have had a regen what we're calling our regen protein project where we had members who had, regeneratively raised animal protein products, look at the nutrient density of those products compared to the conventional version of that product. And our pilot, which just looked at, you know, a bunch of brands to begin with, but that we're gonna be broadening, all of the data came back saying when animal protein is raised regeneratively, we see a lower overall fat profile, more omega three fatty acids, we see a better omega six to three fatty acid profile, and all of these have human health benefits. So that is data that is in the making, and we're gonna be expanding that partnership with, with Edacious to include not just animal protein and animal protein products, but all different kinds of crops. And we're really excited about that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:40
Mary, is that the same thing as the beef study that they just, like, did the big press release about, or is that something different, or is it something like adjacent but not exactly the same thing as?

Mary Purdy - 00:29:50
It's totally different, but I would say it's adjacent in that we're looking at similar, nutrient profiles. That was done with Stefan Von Vliet of Utah State University. He looked at a few more of the phytonutrients in, the the be that beef study. So looking at those those phytochemicals that are in the meats of regeneratively raised cattle. So but but we're gonna be expanding into some more phytonutrients looking at that, as well. Because that's that's a big piece that I think is often missing in the conversation around nutrient density are these phytochemicals.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:23
Yeah. Okay. I have follow-up questions for all the things you just listed on. Okay. I'm gonna try to to to learn more about each one myself and also share more with our audience. The research repository seems pretty straightforward to me. It's like we need continual benchmarking and backing up of the general claim, you know, healthy soil equals, healthy food, more nutritious food, and then also whatever we can glean from more specific instances where there could be claims made or things that could just make up the overall repository. Is there is there any need or is there any effort by y'all, Mary, to, like, create, like, an overall road map and say, like, okay. This is all the research that currently exist. These are the gaps or things that are needed or to almost, like, shape future research.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:59
Are you gonna do some research yourselves, or is it really just, hey. We're doing a great service to the community by just aggregating the existing resource and making sure people are most in the know and have sub substantiation for whatever they wanna kinda take into the marketplace. Am I overthinking that one or

Mary Purdy - 00:31:20
no? No. I'd say that's a big both and. I would say we, you know, we are aggregating the data, and believe me, there's no way we can even put all the papers that are out there on our site. It would be overwhelming. So I've chosen, like, you know, 10 reports, seminal reports here. But we we remain humble. Like, we are always looking for ways to expand on the data. We're always asking if you have data, if you've done nutrient density testing, please reach out to us.

Mary Purdy - 00:31:35
We wanna put that on our site. We'll be aggregating data from brands, from farms who are looking at the nutrient density testing of their product or their their food, and and we wanna get that up there. So we are always in learning mode because the way that nutrition may change in an animal may be very different from the way that it may change in rice, the way that it may change in, you know, crop of grapes or something like that. So so it's a yes and on both of those. And I'll say one more quick thing, AC, is that, in our research repository, we've got, you know, hardcore data, case studies and reports and all that, But we also have some consumer facing, articles, which I think are a little bit more user friendly for a person who doesn't wanna dive too deep into the weeds but wants some talking points. So that's their tool.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:32
I've certainly used those, and I go to the research repository a lot myself.

Mary Purdy - 00:32:36
Oh, excellent.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:38
It's not like we're doing that much content where I need to cite specific science or anything, but, I'm happy that when we do, I don't have to do that work, and you can do that for me. So thank you.

Mary Purdy - 00:32:48
Always reach out AC two if you're like, do you know anything about, you know, a a a study that's set on this? And I gotta tell you, there's a seminal paper that came out recently, called

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:58
I saw your post.

Mary Purdy - 00:32:59
Oh my god. Yeah. This is the this is the paper I have been waiting for. It's called regenerative organic agriculture and human health, the interconnection between soil, food quality, and nutrition. Highly recommend it. So

Anthony Corsaro - 00:33:12
Yeah. Hell yeah. I love it. We'll link we'll link to it in the show notes as well. Right. Okay. Number two, roots to wellness. Got the general gist of that one. Right? It's kind of mobilizing and educating these these health care professionals for lack of a better term to kinda talk about them in aggregate. What does that look like to start, Mary? Is it just y'all doing webinars like you do in speaking engagements? Is it the NDA starting an influencer program where you matchmake dietitians and brands?

Mary Purdy - 00:33:38
Like, you

Anthony Corsaro - 00:33:39
know, I I'm thinking more of, like, the most commercial outcomes or tactics there, but, like, where are you at with that and where do you see that program, like, in the future just tactically? What is it?

Mary Purdy - 00:33:48
Yeah. And I I think it it is evolving as we speak. Yeah. We have a bunch of people who are in that nutrition field right now who are members as individuals. And, yes, that's exactly what we hope to make happen is to pair a dietitian or a nutrition professional or somebody who's in communications who has nutrition expertise with one of the brands that we work with. We're hoping to pair you know, we work with the Western Sustainability Exchange, which is a bunch of ranchers in Montana. They want to understand how they can convince farmers to transition to regenerative agriculture, but they need to know that there is a market for it. So I'm trying to connect them with, dietitians who are in Montana, specifically working in food school systems, working in the hospitals there to make sure that those people are connected. And then we are bringing in and talking to a lot of food as medicine programs. So there are medicine food as medicine programs were already out there.

Mary Purdy - 00:34:36
Recipe for health in California, Four Roots Farm in Florida, Rx, Fresh Rx Oklahoma, in Oklahoma. Right? They are already aware of the fact that regenerative agriculture can can, make for more nutritious food. So how do we bring them into the mix so that they are again working with brands and bringing in brands that are healthier because of the regenerative practices, to to serve the folks who are, are in their food as medicine programs. And that, I think, is a really important piece of making regeneratively grown foods more accessible to people who are in these food as medicine programs. Not everyone can afford a $12 box of crackers. Right?

Mary Purdy - 00:35:24
But if those crackers are part of a food as medicine program, which is funded by whomever, then those crackers are made more available to the folks who are being served by that, initiative. So those are some of the ways, I think that we can begin to engage, but they need to be educated. Right? And we're actually seeking funding to help make sure that we are helping people in that sector who have tremendous potential for influence learn more about the soil health nutrient density connection so that they can be, you know, brand champions, so that they can help brands, they can work with farms, they can connect the dots, between their hospital and a a a a local farm or a, you know, a regenerative brand that's doing great work.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:15
This is gonna be a tough question, Mary, because I don't know the answer to it. I mean, maybe you've thought about it. I'm sure you probably have actually. Like, how do you prevent that from being just a pay to play conflict of interest thing? Right? Where it's like, hey. We're gonna talk about this beef brand because they have they're one of the 20 that have good metrics that we can that we know are legit here, but they're the one giving us the $2,000 or the $20,000. Like, how do you see how do you see, like, figuring out the commercial pieces of that? Like, who gets endorsed? Who gets flagged? Who gets, you know, influenced?

Mary Purdy - 00:36:48
Oh, that's such a good question. And you know what? It makes me sad that we have to think about that so much. Like, oh, yeah. People are, corrupted. There is a conflict of interest. So it it it is a great question, but perhaps I'm I'm not think I'm not explaining it in a way because I I I'm not thinking of it in that way. When I when I think of a a hospital, for instance, let's say there's actually a, you know, UC Davis Medical Center has a great chef whose name is chef Santana. He specifically sources regeneratively raised beef, for instance. He's not that he's getting paid to do that. He's doing it because he's created relationships with a local farm, there and is bringing in that because he knows it to be beneficial for the environment and knows it has, has more nutritional quality.

Mary Purdy - 00:37:28
So I think it's it's things like that, right, of of, of not necessarily endorsing a brand, like, because I'm getting paid by the brand Yeah. But, but making a decision to serve this food or food from this brand because because of their initiatives and, the benefits that they have to both the environment and to human health, hopefully.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:03
That that framing is super helpful. It's like, how do we get chef Santano to just understand that that is good, viable, and best best process, not how do we get chef Santana to specifically buy from stem Temple Creek Ranch. You know? Right. Like Yeah. Different different different thing we're talking about.

Mary Purdy - 00:38:21
But I think you ask a great question because I think this is the pushback that we get in this field. Right? That there's a lot of greenwashing. There's a lot there's a sense that that people can say things and not be kept accountable, that they might be doing it for mercenary reasons, you know, for financial gain or, you know, in influential power, who knows, as opposed to doing it because it's the right thing for people and planet. And and I think, you know, the more we talk about this, the more we educate people and the more people can actually ask the right questions to determine whether the processes that we're going through are in fact full of integrity. I I think the the less we'll have to consider these questions. Yeah. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:39:02
Yeah. My my questions and curiosities around the communications work and the learning labs is probably the biggest list, and it's, I think, where I see the greatest overlap in our work and our greatest reason for being members. Right? It's like, how can I help as many brands as possible make either the macro claim or a micro claim on a specific product?

Mary Purdy - 00:39:26
Uh-huh.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:39:26
And I think the white paper, was groundbreaking in the sense that it kind of explored and laid that out broadly. And now to me, the challenge for all of us working in this space is, like, figuring out how to get brands over the hump specifically in their own context as many as we can, as many as we can. Right? So that they can make a claim on their milk, their beef, their bread, their chocolate, their whatever. Mhmm. So in the communications work and in the learning labs, is it really focused on, like, specific brands and product claims? Is it is it really focused on more so, hey. Let's let's just go proliferate this, Soil Health equals human health connection.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:01
Like, talk to me about more specific focus there and and what people should be looking out for us, specifically, especially on the CPG side.

Mary Purdy - 00:40:15
Yes. And what I wanna do is I want to move away from the word claim. Right? Because that gets us into territory where people get nervous. But I wanna take us

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:27
We have to call the lawyers when we use that term, Mary, as you know. All the regulatory people get involved. You know?

Mary Purdy - 00:40:32
It's it's so I wanna I wanna put away from that word because it's scary. Right? It's scary, like, claims. Like, I'm making this claim. Like, but if we talk about it from the perspective of and and and join me on a journey here, which is

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:45
Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 00:40:46
The journey is we know consumers are interested in having more nutritious food. Right? There's a demand for food that is grown more sustainably and is more nutrient dense. We know that from a lot of, like, you know, consumer, consumer research that's been done out there. Doesn't always bear out. We know that. But in general, that's what we're hearing. Number two, the next phase of this journey is that our food right now is much less nutritious than it was. That that is that is data that is out there from the USDA, from, you know, big organizations up to 25 to 50% fewer vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals than there were fifty years ago.

Mary Purdy - 00:41:12
Right? So that is that is problematic, and that is a direct result of eroded soil, of depleted soil. It's also because of climate change. Yes. But it it's it's it's definitely, because of environmental factors that have eroded the soil. Then we keep on going on this journey and we know, well, hey, if soil is eroded, we know that plants get their nutrients from soil.

Mary Purdy - 00:41:38
So soil health is absolutely key for making food more nutritious. Right? And then we know that regenerative practice, Jennifer, that we're going down this road map still. We're still, you know, walking together. We know that

Anthony Corsaro - 00:41:58
I'm with you.

Mary Purdy - 00:41:59
Okay. Good. Are are we holding hands? Are we holding hands down this road? Yeah. Oh, this path, this garden? So so regenerative practices such as, you know, cover cropping, composting, integrating livestock, you know, not just doing one of those things, but and obviously, there's a there's a continuum of regenerative agriculture practice of what that means. But we know that these kinds of practices make the soil healthier. So the then we're there. So, I mean, it's a little bit of a of a of a long journey, but I feel like if we can help people through that journey and give them those talking points, which, you know, if we just took made it simple. Consumers want more nutrient dense foods that are sustainably produced, and I'm making this up as I'm as I'm speaking. Yeah. Soil, healthier soil produces more nutrient dense foods.

Mary Purdy - 00:42:35
Regenerative practices like blank blank blank make healthier soil. Therefore, you know, our regenerative practices, whether it's a farm or a or a or a brand, help to build the health of the soil, which improves the quality of food and that can benefit your health. So I I think it's it's it's not about making a claim, but about taking through people through a a a road or a path or a garden, if you will, if you want, or a farm, where they start to understand a little bit more about what it means when we say that our product is richer in nutrients than the typical product. It's not a claim as much as it as it is, like, a point of education and discovery and exploration.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:43:29
Mhmm. Yeah. And in our world, we would say, like, marketing tactics, it's narrative, it's story, it's longer form storytelling and marketing. It's not product specific purchase driving claims

Mary Purdy - 00:43:41
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:43:41
Which it's good that we're probably having Eric from Audacious on next because that's really probably his world. Right? It's like, hey. You're a brand. Work with me. We're gonna do specific testing for your brand or product so that you could eventually make a very specific science backed claim. Is that fair

Mary Purdy - 00:43:55
Absolutely. Explanation?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:43:56
I

Mary Purdy - 00:43:56
mean, you see, that is that is the key piece here. If if a brand or a farm and we're doing this now with with Udacious, it gets their product tested. And I know it's prohibitively expensive for certain smaller organizations, but if we're able to get more and more brands to do nutrient density testing and compare that against a conventional version of that food, I mean, it keeps on happening. We keep on seeing, look, you know, look at squeeze citrus, right? They are seeing their oranges being much, much higher in those phytonutrients that are so key for human health. Look at distal turkey. Right? Or distal turkey.

Mary Purdy - 00:44:22
They're seeing higher levels of nutrients in their turkey. So we keep on seeing it across the board. It's consistently showing that data. So if we can, you know, if brands can point to other brands and say, look, they did it. Or if they're able to do their own, you can actually say our our blank is is is higher in levels of blank than the typical version of this product. I mean, if you've got the data to back it up, and of course you might have to do it every year, which is the other the other, interesting piece of this conversation.

Mary Purdy - 00:44:57
But if you've got the data, man, you can you can you can make you can make those statements. And I'm not calling them claims. I'm calling them statements.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:13
Yeah. I like that. Okay. I need that I needed that reframe because I'm always calling it claims, so I appreciate that. Mhmm. And I think, like you said, it does soften the, fear and the regulatory burden that a lot of brands think about when they think about, from a marketing execution perspective.

Mary Purdy - 00:45:31
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:32
Okay. That's a good segue into the last thing, right, which is the partnership that you mentioned with Adesus on the beef project the Regen protein project. Excuse me. Yeah. Mary, the end goal of doing that and more stuff like it is so that you can have case studies for individual or, like, category stuff with brands and farms? Is it just, you know, to build the research repository? Is it to show the viability of this new nutrition testing? Like, the the the goal of that type of work and the continuation of it is is what for you all?

Mary Purdy - 00:46:03
I would say again, you know, you're you're so smart, you see. It's everything you're talking about. Right? I mean, you said you said you were dumb earlier, but you're clearly, incredibly, intuitive and smart. So it is. I mean, it is about continuing to build the research. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I say I I that I meet who are saying, is it really true? Does it really make a difference with, you know, with nutrition when people are growing their food regeneratively? I'm like, yes. They're like, where's the research?

Mary Purdy - 00:46:24
I'm like, oh my god. There's so much there's so much research, but they're all these small case studies. But if we have a hundred, a 50, a thousand case studies that keep on showing the same data, you know, proving this point, then then it's gonna make for a much stronger case. And it helps other brands learn. Okay. What we're doing is actually working and, you know, and here's how we start to communicate that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:46:59
Yeah. It's interesting. Brands are like farmers in a lot of ways that they don't wanna just know that something exists and be told how it's done or how it can be done. They wanna see precedent from their peers that other people are doing it. Yeah. They want those case studies. They want that example just like the farmer wants the person down the street to actually validate, hey. I'm gonna cover crop, and it's not gonna totally wreck my whole, you know, process over here. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:17
So

Mary Purdy - 00:47:22
And we help them feel safe and inspired. Right? And and I think that the time now is for collaboration, and I know that we've talked about this before with other guests, but the the it it really is about collaborating with other brands, learning from them, sharing resources, understanding how we can all work together to ultimately, like, elevate this movement and speed it along because there is not enough time. Like, we we needed to do this, like, ten years ago. So let's let's move forward and, and rising tide lifts all boats.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:53
Yeah. Well, in that vein, and this is this is probably not one CTA or ask or, you know, from you, Mary, it's probably multiple and it's different for each stakeholders, but, like, is that more people become NDA members? Is it more people send you research? Is it more people, you know, work with the to do testing and then share that share that research with y'all? Like, give me some specific CTAs, for folks that listen to this episode. How can they get more involved? How can they join that collaborative effort?

Mary Purdy - 00:48:20
Yeah. I mean, we we would love to have more people in our, in our membership because I think the the more we have and the more variety of people from different sectors and brands and food groups, the more we learn from one another and the stronger we are. So I would say having more members would be great. And we always allow anyone to come to a member meeting to see, hey, who's in the community? What are these guys talking about? What's it like? Number two is getting involved with our learning labs.

Mary Purdy - 00:48:41
Like if you've got, a story that you wanna tell, come and be a part of our learning lab or come and learn or come and share your knowledge and help shape how this movement works. Number three, I would say, you know, get nutrient density testing done and tell us about it, share that information. Even if you don't wind up becoming a member, we still wanna amplify people who are doing that work. I mean, we have a number of people who are allies or friends. They aren't necessarily members, but you can be darn sure that I am making that I am making their information that they have put out into the the the ether about their nutrient density testing. I'm making sure that's out there. And then I would say too, you know, tell people about it. Tell people about this movement.

Mary Purdy - 00:49:23
And I think brands can be partnering with health care facilities. They can be partnering with food as medicine initiatives. People need to be sitting down together at the same place and having these conversations, if at all possible. Because I think the the more we work together across sectors, bringing in farmers with dietitians, with food as medicine professionals, with health care professionals, with food service, with chefs, with people working in public health, you know, with and the brands, if I didn't already say them, we will be so much more powerful if if we work together. We will get so much further.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:07
Yep. I love that. And social accountability, you know, for for us, I think what we're trying to work on from a ReGen Brands perspective with the NDA are, those case studies and those examples and those toolkits and resources to help brands make statements. I almost said claims, but I'm gonna say statements. That's one. And then two, that overall, like, education and communications and even influencing type partnerships specifically with what I would call health care professionals or health care, yeah, people. Because right now, a lot of our brands pay a lot of money to a Internet influencer. And, you know, if they are directing them to an ecommerce website, they have good idea of ROI and kind of the conversion rate and was it worth it? Mhmm.

Mary Purdy - 00:50:53
If

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:53
they're trying to just boost a retail, effort, you know, there's no real way of knowing that I watched Stacy's Instagram, video, and then I went to that Whole Foods nearest me and and bought that product.

Mary Purdy - 00:51:05
Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:05
But, you know, there's there's something to me that's compelling about the health care professional recommendation or sharing of knowledge that I think is more trackable and I think is is much higher ROI and has a higher conversion rate. So that's that's something for you and I to to continue to muse on for

Mary Purdy - 00:51:23
sure. Yeah. And let me say something too because I I'm I'm I'm hearkening back to that, question you had earlier about how do we know that people have integrity. Right? And I feel like that's almost where the nutrient density alliance comes in as a third party, validator where it's not just like a market, sorry, influencer who's a dietitian who, you know, gets free samples from a, a brand and then or gets paid by the brand to say good things about the brand, I think that can be a conflict of interest and maybe not just dietitians, but other influencers out there. But if we as the nutrient density, alliance are saying, hey. We know this brand is doing amazing work. We have vetted them. We've talked to them. We know them.

Mary Purdy - 00:51:55
We know their practices. We wanna recommend that you connect with this organization or that you connect with this food as medicine program. So I think that that's another place where we can act as that as that, that outside influence that really you know, for myself, I can tell you a % that I I really believe in in being somebody with a great amount of integrity and and not Yeah. Not focusing on on, you know, the outcome being mercenary or somehow power for my own my own Yeah. Making.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:39
No. That's very evident in working with you in multiple capacities, and we're we're right there with you. This is a critical time also for so many people in this work that are doing it the right way and really maintaining a lot of integrity that if that group of people doesn't unite with that as a common ethos Okay. And it doesn't show up in our actions, you know, we risk harming not only ourselves individually, but the the broader collective, which is is very important right now. Mary, maybe one interesting thing to to get your perspective on is, like, I don't wanna say what our brand's not doing right, but maybe what should brands know, or what things do you see them just not doing in general trying to make these statements, trying to build this narrative with with their consumers around their products? Like, just specific insight on from your perspective.

Mary Purdy - 00:53:26
Yes. I'm so glad you asked this because I feel like there is an area for great opportunity that is not being tapped into. And that is we've talked a lot about, you know, micronutrients or just nutrient density. But the thing that we don't often highlight as being so significant to benefiting human health is the presence or lack of presence of phytochemicals. So these phytochemicals, which I mentioned earlier, you know, have anti inflammatory, properties, antimicrobial, anti, cancer, anti, diabetic properties that are very, very instrumental to to providing all kinds of health benefits. And food currently is very low in phytochemicals because of the industrial processes that have depleted the soil, but also, like, changed the relationship between the plants and the microbes in the soil. So I think we're missing this opportunity to talk about how foods that are grown using regenerative practices that build a healthy microbial ecosystem in this soil help to determine the phytochemical content of that plant and that food. And I'm not just talking about fruits and vegetables. I mean, beans have phytochemicals in them. Grains, rice has phytochemicals in them. Right?

Mary Purdy - 00:54:32
So, when the food industry when CPGs can actually talk a little bit more about the fact that these important, you can call them compounds or antioxidant rich molecules, people know antioxidants. Right? That's a simple phrase that a lot of consumers are familiar with. But being able to talk about the benefits of how they're growing practices help to inform the antioxidant properties of that plant, which has beneficial health impacts on on people. The other thing that I think is not being mentioned is the impact on the human gut microbiome. Right?

Mary Purdy - 00:55:09
So this is all out all those microorganisms that live in our intestines that have a profound influence on our health, more than just digestion and absorption, They determine how many calories we burn, how much fat we store, how we regulate our blood sugar, how we, neutralize carcinogens and toxins. When that gut microbiome is fed and nourished through the presence of nutrient rich foods that include fiber, higher omega three fatty acids, and these phytochemicals, all of which are elevated in plants or animals that have come from a regenerative system. When we have more of those phytochemicals, and omega threes and, and fiber that helps to serve our gut microbiome, which ultimately has huge human health, implications as well. So being able to talk more about that, I think is a is a is a space that a lot of brands can can really, begin to include in some of their talking points.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:16
Yeah. And it and it's interesting. You mentioned also to me, like, brands are not actually talking a lot about taste and flavor, which I found interesting. And, like, no pun intended, if there's any low hanging fruit, it would be that. So what do you think is going on with that one?

Mary Purdy - 00:56:31
What else can be good there? Well, I mean, I first of all, you know, taste and flavor, are a little subjective. So sometimes it's hard. Some people love cilantro like myself, some people hate it. But we know that the org what they're called, organoleptic qualities, that is the taste over is that a funny word? I love it. I believe it exists. It's like that sounds fake, but it's true. The organoleptic properties of food have diminished with the last in the last fifty to sixty years, And that is directly influenced by those phytochemicals.

Mary Purdy - 00:56:51
You know, phytochemicals is the major the the big family, but underneath that are polyphenols and underneath within the polyphenol family are flavonoids. Right? Or flavonols. You probably have heard of some of these types of compounds, things like quercetin or anthocyanins, resveratrol. Flavonoids are conferring flavor on the plant. With fewer flavonols, that means that the plant tends to be less flavorful.

Mary Purdy - 00:57:24
So this is a whole other angle that brands can be using, that farms can be using, that dietitians, practitioners, foodist medicine professionals can be using is when we have more nutrient rich foods, you can be darn sure that that food is probably going to taste more flavorful. You know, people have different impressions of what thing what makes things taste good, But, you know, bite into a regeneratively grown tomato, that is totally different from a tomato that you get in, you know, in February that's that's grown not using those those more regenerative techniques. It's a completely different experience, and that is Yeah. Such a game changer for many people.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:08
Yeah. I mean, I feel like if I had to force myself to summarize that as quickly as possible, it's almost like use try to do this marketing in a way that's connected to vocabulary that already exists and is well known by the consumer. Right? So instead of nutrient density, it's antioxidants, microbiome, taste, flavor, and using that messaging, those words, and tying things into that instead of trying to not only educate them on the whole process of how nutrient density is created, but, like, get them to understand the term in general anyway, like, to start.

Mary Purdy - 00:58:43
And I I mean, I think of, like, a really quick sound bite, which I I've been I've been working on just creating sound bites. You know, healthier soil produces more nourishing and flavorful food. Right? That's not a claim. That is a statement. And you can actually see a very similar statement on, the Patagonia provisions, crackers that, I'm forgetting. Julia Collins, you know, created which

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:04
Good shot.

Mary Purdy - 00:59:05
Yes. Thank you. Good. You know, better soil quality enhances both nutrition and taste. Good for you and planet. Right? So I mean, I think things like that, that that speaks to people, enhances nourishing, taste, flavor. Those are all positive words that people resonate with, especially when they're, like, in bright red or, like, you know, in fun fonts on the package. That's meaningful for people.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:31
Love that. What what else can we do for you? Or what what else what other information are you looking for from the brands maybe?

Mary Purdy - 00:59:38
Yeah. Well, I would ask you and I would ask the folks in the audience that that question. You know, what what do you need? I I I hear oftentimes we want talking points. We wanna know how to communicate this, whether we've done nutrient density testing or not. But we need to understand more what would be most helpful for people. What are the biggest barriers? What are the biggest friction points? Who do you wanna be connected with? Right? That's the other thing I love doing. I have this, recent story.

Mary Purdy - 00:59:59
We have two one new member who is a cherry grower in Montana, and we have the Western Sustainability Exchange, which is a whole bunch of ranches in also in Montana. When the cherry grower, came into membership, I emailed the folks from the Western Sustainability Exchange, and I said, you know, we have a new member who's a cherry grower, in Montana near you. Have you guys ever thought about doing dried cherries in a beef jerky or anything like that? And, the woman my my my contact there, Holly Fritz, was like, no. But would you put us in touch with her? So I put them in touch, and now they're having this conversation about a potential beef jerky with dried cherries.

Mary Purdy - 01:00:33
And I'm like, okay. That's what I wanna do. Right? That's what I want.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:44
That's awesome.

Mary Purdy - 01:00:45
I wanna connect people with folks. So who do you wanna be connected with? Is there a business, a brand, a a person, a type of person, a space, a a health care facility? Like, I wanna make that happen for you and I have lots of connections and if you're within the membership too, you know, we wanna understand what would be most beneficial for our members so we can create the coolest, most awesome membership for the folks who decide to join us.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:10
Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I'll give you my current answer to that question, which I think we're always refining as we engage with the brands, but it's probably two pieces of, like, technical assistance support Oh. And then one piece of what I'd call commercial support. So on the technical assistance side, it's like, if I have a product that I wanna do testing on that I want to turn into some sort of marketing something, what do I what do I do? How do I do it? Who can you connect me to? Right?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:36
It's just the technical assistance of if I am gonna do nutrient density testing, what does that need to look like? Who should I talk to? What does it cost? Can you help me through it? Can you give me a PDF? Which, hence, I think Eric's gonna be one specific example of that when we have him on next.

Mary Purdy - 01:01:52
For sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:53
So that's one. The other piece is like technical assistance slash communications, which is the overall narrative, right, which is just that general best practices, the sound bites, the tool kits of, you know, how do we make these more general statements that help with producing marketing content, putting copy on the website, social media ideas, etcetera to say, you know, healthy soil equals healthy food, and we invest in healthy soil these these ways ourselves

Mary Purdy - 01:02:17
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:18
Which you and I have already talked about working on that one. Right. That's right. And then the third one is, yeah, the third one is, like, I would call it helping brands realize the true ROI of the nutrition of their food that they don't get proper credit for most of the time in a highly competitive CPG landscape. So whether that is influencer programs, whether that is, partnerships with, you know, health and nutrition profession professionals, it's how can we increase the commercial ROI of the fact that they've done all this work to make the foods nutritious. So it's basically just sales and marketing support to help them realize the value of of everything that's gone into their products.

Mary Purdy - 01:03:02
Yeah. That that's great. And and I do feel like, you know, combining people who are in in communications who also have a nutrition background, and and and helping them to connect with brands who are looking for exactly what you're talking about is really important. One last thing I will say because I feel like I've had some very rich conversations recently with folks who are interested in doing human health trials and clinical studies. I know that Applegate is doing one, but there are other organizations out there, Think Regeneration. I know that, Recipe for Health is starting to do clinical trials. They're they're beginning to understand that when they are serving these kinds of foods to people, they are seeing a change in, like, their blood sugar issues or they're seeing a change in their inflammatory markers. I feel like that kind of data could be really important too. You know, it's hard because dietary patterns are very nuanced.

Mary Purdy - 01:03:50
It's not just like you have one food all day long every single day. But in general, if we can begin to show an actual human health outcome that is based in blood markers or improvements in specific kinds of chronic conditions that people have, that could be the the real missing link that can help brands also make some more of these really strong statements and understand the value, the nutritional value, as it relates to, the human health outcome potential for that.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:28
Yeah. Like, that's the next frontier. Right? It's not just the nutrient density, studies and data. It's the human health trials and the actual effect of consuming the food versus whatever else might be another option. So Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 01:04:41
I'll have

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:41
that call out. Yeah. And, hopefully, we're doing another interview soon where that has proliferated to some degree, and we're seeing a ton of momentum there. I would love that.

Mary Purdy - 01:04:51
From your mouth to Buddha's ears.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:55
I like it. Well, I'll tee up the last question, which, I'm sure will probably some somewhat of a summary of what we've talked about already, Mary, but Yeah. We ask everyone this final question. How do we get ReGen Brands to have 50% market share by 2050? What do you think we need to do? Okay.

Mary Purdy - 01:05:12
I got I got a few things for you.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:16
Play it all, man.

Mary Purdy - 01:05:17
I think there will be some repeats here. But, number one, I would say, it's key to mobilize, influential gatekeepers. So these are those nutrition professionals, the food service directors who need education, but their adoption of of these of these, concepts is going to create immediate scale. Right? And Yeah. Getting that taste and flavor, to be incorporated. Number two, I would say is building the evidence, which we're always building, getting nutrient density testing done and really demonstrating, the superiority, if that's the right word, the advantages of of of nutrition in regenerative foods, and really presenting more case studies. Number three, I would say is to, to integrate more with health care systems.

Mary Purdy - 01:05:57
So, really making sure that that regenerative foods are are are being positioned, as very beneficial with these food as medicine frameworks and getting institutions to purchase from brands that are doing our regenerative, initiatives or farms that are doing regenerative agriculture. This could be through health insurance programs. Right? Hospital systems. And getting that human health data would be really, really great. Number four would be, like, scaling, through strategic partnerships.

Mary Purdy - 01:06:19
So I think I I love small brands. I really, really honor how many great brands, especially that you guys work with. I mean, I just love so many of them, and I think it is key to convert larger brands as well and retailers who can really shift, the conversation, and and and not necessarily bring, smaller brands along with them, but just knowing that they, the bigger brands are going there, I think is going to help shuttle along many others. And lastly, I think, and this isn't always something brands can be involved with, but I do feel like we can all advocate for policy changes. Right? For either incentivizing, farmers or even brands maybe, you know, that to to to practice in a way that is more, in concert with nature that builds the health of the soil And also to reveal those true costs, right, those hidden costs Yeah.

Mary Purdy - 01:07:08
Of conventionally raised animals, of conventionally grown foods. You know, for every million dollars that is spent on a a food being produced is $2.02 more million dollars, of being spent on health care costs and environmental degradation and biodiversity loss. So we gotta reveal that, make that more available to to folks so we really have an argument that that feels compelling. So those are some ideas. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:07:53
I mean, look. Mary was prepped for this answer y'all. That was that was that was legit. She was prepped for this question. Excuse me. So educate slash influence the gatekeepers, build the evidence, integrate with health care, create win win partnerships and collaboration, and influence policy, change policy. Those five.

Mary Purdy - 01:08:11
Yeah. That's

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:11
a great answer. Yeah. Love that. Carrie, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Mary Purdy - 01:08:17
Oh my gosh. I'm so glad to have had this platform to chat with you, and and so appreciate the work that you do, AC. And Kyle too, of course. I'm sorry he's not here to to be chatting, but, really such an honor to be here. And bravo to all the brands out there listening and all the people doing great work in the regenerative space. Thank you so much.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:34
Amen. Right back at you. I will put it in the show notes as well, but for those that wanna check out the website, it's nutrientdensityalliance.org. Easy. But yeah. Thanks, Mary. Really appreciate it. This has been fun.

Mary Purdy - 01:08:48
Thanks.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:52
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