On this episode, we have Benina Montes who is the Founder and Co-Owner of Burroughs Family Farms.
Burroughs Family Farms is supporting regenerative agriculture with their regenerative organic farm producing almonds, olives, and walnuts while raising pastured sheep and poultry. Their brand predominantly sells almond-based products like various nut butters and their new almond concentrate, along with whole-snacking almonds offered in various formats and flavors.
In this episode, we learn about the Burroughs family's long history in farming and with food brands, Benina details their regenerative journey and how they became the first almond farm in the world to be Regenerative Organic Certified®, and we learn about why they launched their own brand and how it has grown over the last few years.
Benina and her family are proving firsthand on their more than 1,000 acres that almond farming can be both regenerative and productive - leading to big wins in water infiltration, farm profitability, crop nutrient density, and more. They even host an Annual Regenerative Almond Field Day to share their efforts with other farmers, brands, retailers, researchers, and more.
Episode Highlights:
🧑🌾 The Burroughs family’s history with farming and brands
🫙 Why they created their own brand
😡 How the entire almond industry incentivizes bare ground
🌳 Why farming in California is so different
🏗️ How new harvesting equipment enables regen practices
🔥 Their Annual Regenerative Tree Nut Field Day
🐑 The challenge of building off-take for both crops and livestock
🏆 Their NEXTY-winning Almond Milk Concentrate
🥈 Why they have two regenerative certifications
🛒 How retailers and distributors can support regen
Links:
4th Annual Regenerative Tree Nut Field Day
Sustainable Groundwater Management Act
State of Regenerative CPG Report
Regenerative Organic Certified®
CDFA Defining Regenerative Agriculture
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Subscribe to the ReGen Brands Weekly newsletter
Episode Recap:
ReGen Brands Recap #82 - Regenerative Almonds Farmed For The Future - (RECAP LINK)
Episode Transcript:
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.
Kyle Krull - 00:00:13
Welcome to the ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for brands, retailers, investors, and other food system stakeholders to learn about the consumer brand supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my cohost AC, who's gonna take us into the episode.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:33
On this episode, we have Benina Montes, who is the founder and co owner of Burroughs Family Farms. Burroughs Family Farms is supporting regenerative agriculture with their regenerative organic farm producing almonds, olives, and walnuts, while raising pastured sheep and poultry. Their brand predominantly sells almond based products like various nut butters and their new almond concentrate, along with whole snacking almonds offered in various formats and flavors. In this episode, we learn about the Burroughs family's long history in farming and with food brands. Benina details their regenerative journey and how they became the 1st almond farm in the world to be regenerative organic certified, and we learn about why they launched their own brand and how it has grown over the last few years. Benina and her family are proving firsthand on their more than 1 acres that almond farming can be both regenerative and productive, leading to big wins in water infiltration, farm profitability, crop nutrient density, and more. They even host an annual regenerative almond field day to share their efforts with other farmers, brands, retailers, researchers, and more.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:32
We are pumped to have Benina join us, and we hope you enjoy this one as much as we did. Let's go. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the ReGen Brands Podcast. Very excited today to have our friend, Benina, from Burroughs Family Farms with us. So welcome, Benina.
Benina Montes - 00:01:58
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Kyle Krull - 00:02:01
We're excited to have you here. We're in a kind of a silly mood. We're excited. We haven't had a guest on in quite a while. We already had, like, 4 opening mishaps. It's gonna be a fun episode. And we get to talk about almonds, so I'm super excited. But, Brina, for those who are unfamiliar with the brand, give us a quick lay of the land. What sort of products do you produce and where can people find your products today?
Benina Montes - 00:02:24
Awesome. Yeah. So we have, you can see behind me, on the top shelf, there's a £3 just all natural bag, which is on Amazon. We also have creamy and crunchy almond butter, which is available also on Amazon, but more importantly, we're on the West Coast in brick and mortars with whole foods and a lot of wonderful independents. And then we came out this year with an almond milk concentrate, which won a NextE and that's on on our website and Amazon as well.
Kyle Krull - 00:02:53
Okay. This is controversial question. Are you creamy or are you crunchy?
Benina Montes - 00:02:58
You know, they are both wonderful. I I do like a little crunch, but it's also kind of like the word almond. You know, here in the valley, we call them almonds. And people will say, well, how are you supposed to pronounce them? And I always say, I really don't care how you pronounce them as long as you eat them. But the backstory is that they are an almond on the tree, and then they get the l shaped out of them, and then they become an
Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:22
almond. Oh, loves that.
Kyle Krull - 00:03:24
That's like the real term. So we we don't we've never actually eaten an almond. We've only eaten an almond.
Benina Montes - 00:03:31
I mean, like I said, I really don't care how you say it as long as you as long as you eat them. But as my brother says, are they way nuts or walnuts? And do you say salmon or salmon? I don't know. It's just fun. I'm both learning and confused, and, you
Kyle Krull - 00:03:48
know, it's a good thing.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:50
Yeah. I love it. I love it. And, Bonita, share some of the history, and I think it's you got 5 generations of family members that have been in farming and involved in this business. So just take us back to kind of how did this thing all get started and and that family legacy.
Benina Montes - 00:04:06
Yeah. So my, great grandfather had a milk delivery business here in California. He ended up starting a dairy so he could, like, make sure he had his his milk supply. And so that dairy was in the East Bay, Knights and Brentwood area for many, many years. And they had I mean, we still have all the old milk bottles, Burroughs Brothers, Cloverleaf. There were different brands. They even have, like, the cream top, Wow. That they could have. And, in the sixties, they ended up selling that because, you know, some of the family split apart.
Benina Montes - 00:04:31
My grandparents ended up finding the place that we're currently at in the early seventies. And it wasn't supposed to be the new spot for the dairy, but in 78, they did end up moving the dairy down here. And then in the late eighties, started planting almonds with improvements in irrigation, so we we were able to plant that. And Why
Kyle Krull - 00:05:01
why did they decide on almonds? Going from dairy to I mean, they could have done who knows what else? Why almonds? Is that just like a good crop for that area?
Benina Montes - 00:05:10
Yeah. So we're in we're this is Mediterranean climate. It gets cold enough in the winter so you have chill hours, but then it gets hot enough so that the the actual nuts can mature. And I think they were starting to take off. It was more of a diversification tool. We didn't stop dairying at that point. We totally still had the dairy going but it was just a diversification. We also had a herd of beef cattle and then crops for the dairy as well.
Benina Montes - 00:05:25
So very diversified which goes into well, so then my generation started coming back in and at that point, my dad and kids were going one direction. My uncle and his kids were kinda going into different directions. So at the end of 2003, the family split up. I mean, the land split up. We were obviously still family. And and we're still neighbors and we have, you know, good relationship, but, but our family went down the organic path.
Benina Montes - 00:05:53
And, my sister had already had a grass based seasonal dairy. She had gone to New Zealand to learn about dairy down there, came back, started the dairy, and it was I mean, it was really cool. You know, cows are coming in and out of the field's milk. We we weren't taking food to them. They were literally going in and out. And, it was seasonal, like, they shut down in mid November, and then the cows would start calving again in in mid January. And so my brother, liked it.
Benina Montes - 00:06:23
He was an animal guy. He trained dogs and horses and this is an opportunity for him to have a business that would also, you know, generate income but also kinda build his love of the land. And so the ground had never been sprayed. So So that was like our first real introduction into organic. And, you know, it's like a little bit scary but organic was rising and his wife Meredith was very good with animals and, you know, the toolbox change. So it's nerve wracking in the beginning, but they did a really good job of learning different products to use and how to be more proactive instead of reactive.
Benina Montes - 00:07:05
And so with the success that they were having, my sister started transitioning her dairy. It took 3 years. And then, meanwhile, I'm kind of watching having come from this diversified background going, okay, I'm home from college and now we just have all this. Like, how how do I diversify that? And so in 2006, we started you know, we we found somebody that could would consult with us and had some more experience than we did. Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:07:36
So we felt comfortable. By then, it was a couple years in on the dairy. And, you know, once you start down this path, you just, you know, you just start seeing more light, you see the interaction. And again, you know, going from that reactive killing to that proactive, like, habitat, mentality, you just start questioning everything. Why are we doing this the way that we're doing? And so, you know, I especially when especially when money is involved, you know, you know, what is your reasoning for telling me that I need this product?
Benina Montes - 00:08:12
Is this to line your pocket book or is it because it's actually necessary?
Anthony Corsaro - 00:08:26
Right.
Benina Montes - 00:08:26
And, you know, I kept seeing our trees. They weren't defoliating, meaning the leaves coming off. They were staying greener longer, not as stressed. And so it just made me really question, like, why are you telling me to spray this thing? It's not just gonna kill the one bad bug, but it's also gonna kill all the beneficials as well. And so that was just always, like, kind of in my mind that, like, why do I why are we doing this? And, that was in 2006 that we started. In March, we added the the next block in August of the same year. And then I got married in 2009. We had started adding a couple more fields.
Benina Montes - 00:08:54
In 2010, I got pregnant. I was like, I just don't wanna have this split operation. You know, number 1, you're having to watch all of the equipment in between fields. Right. And, and I just I didn't wanna be responsible for having I I didn't wanna be adding more poison to the world especially carrying a baby inside and being around that. And so we, you know, we looked at the numbers and wanted to make sure that we can survive financially by going down that road.
Benina Montes - 00:09:28
But, you know, it looks it looks like we could we would be good and we knew we would make more money same dimensional. But by then, we had just completely drank the Kool Aid, although not Kool Aid because it probably has total blue dyes and sugar. And so we were not drinking that, but you know what I mean.
Kyle Krull - 00:09:53
Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:09:54
And so so yeah. By 2015, the whole farm had been certified. I think we were just under a 1000 acres by then. And I thought this is enough, like, we're good. We've done it all. We just have to maintain this and keep going. And then my parents started talking about regeneration and or regenerative farming and I was just like what the hell is this? And this is one more thing. My mom was also trying to get us to do biodynamic and that was a little too frou frou for me.
Benina Montes - 00:10:18
So I would you know, without knowing anything, I was just like, well, because how do you how do you time your harvest to the moon when you have a 1000 acres or whatever, you know. Right. I don't know that much about that. I shouldn't really be counting, but I thought it was going kinda down that and I was just like, there's no way. And so we got an email from Tommy Fenster. He was at CSU East Bay at the time and he wanted to do a study comparing regenerative and conventional almonds.
Benina Montes - 00:10:39
So, of course, I hit forward to my parents and said if you want to, you know, call him back if you want, I'm I'm good. And then the study came out from MacDiocese, you know, and it was very powerful for me having just had SGMA, the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act come through knowing that we were gonna have reduced water availability and increased costs because of that water. Just and that that's just one part, you know, just the water part, not including all the rest of the continued cost to keep climbing in California. So once that came out, I was just like, give it to me. How do we do this? How do we implement this as fast as possible?
Benina Montes - 00:11:22
And it wasn't like it was like going from, you know, like, hardcore conventional and then becoming regenerative. I mean, we were organic already. We had a ton of what I call volunteer vegetation, instead of calling it weeds. Don't like the negative connotation. And so yeah, we just we're very much more intentional in our practices, but at that point.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:54
Benina, when, like, my assumption is for most of that or all of that time you just laid out, you y'all were just selling into commodity markets or kinda to some sort of process or not having your own brand. When did your own brand come into the picture?
Benina Montes - 00:12:07
So, my husband and I got married in 2009 and my sister he was actually working for my sister at the time and, she had, I think, read a book or had gone to Salatin's Farm, and so she wanted to bring in organic pastured chickens and have them work on their dairy. But she had had her 4th kid in 2010, and she was tired of the seasonality of not having enough in the stores being mad at her or having too much and giving them to food banks. And she was like, I'm done doing these chickens. And my husband likes chickens, and my dad wanted to keep them going. So we were like, alright. Well, let's take this on. Let's let's add this.
Benina Montes - 00:12:46
So so him and so that's when Burroughs Family Farms was actually started, was in 2010 and between it's a partnership between my husband and I. And, it was everything you
Kyle Krull - 00:13:01
had to sell the chickens, not the
Benina Montes - 00:13:03
It was for eggs. It was for eggs. Correct. Yes. Yeah. Well, going back just a little bit, our company name was called Vista Livestock. And then when my dad and my uncle split, my in the coin toss, my dad got to keep the name and the address of the phone number.
Kyle Krull - 00:13:20
Mhmm.
Benina Montes - 00:13:20
Oh, sorry. Name and address, not phone number. And but Vista Livestock, we had no livestock. We only had trees, And it just it didn't necessarily make sense. So that's when we chain we added Burroughs Family Orchards.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:33
I'm just imagining your husband proposing to you with a ring and an empty egg carton. It's like, I will keep the egg business going, and I'd like to marry you if that's that's cool.
Benina Montes - 00:13:43
That was that was after we were already married, like, a year later.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:47
Okay. Okay.
Benina Montes - 00:13:48
Yeah. That was yeah. For any chicken farmers, if you need an idea later for how to propose, you could try that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how it started and then we were going to, the to the Bay Area with these eggs. I mean, I literally drove one case with 15 dozen in a in a Prius to Rainbow grocery. That was, like, our first delivery, and I was just like, oh, wow. So excited. Like Wow. Which is nothing. Like, it's 15, that looks like nothing.
Benina Montes - 00:14:09
But I was very excited. Anyway, so, we eventually got a refrigerated van, and it was like, why don't we add more to to the van since we're already going there? And if people like our eggs, they're probably gonna like the rest of our products. So, we my mom had always given, like, flavored almonds as a gift during the holidays. So, like, well, why don't we just bag that and put a label on that and start adding that? And then a friend of ours, did almond butter and it was amazing. I'm like, well, why don't we just try it? Let's see what happens. Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:14:43
And again, back to that Mediterranean climate, well, olives are also grow very well in that. So I was like, well, let's why don't we put salmon? I mean, olives so that we have a little diversity and can then we, of course, started adding that to the to the mix up too. So that's kind of how it how it started. But I do think it is cool, you know, that the great grandfather had his own branded products, way before we did. So Yeah. It's been fun.
Kyle Krull - 00:15:20
Super cool. I appreciate that story a lot. And there's one thing in particular you said that I really, really loved, and it's that organic and regenerative farming is proactive instead of reactive. And I think, you know, the comparisons I think it's really nice to compare how we treat our soil to how we treat ourselves and our bodies. And it's almost like, you know, the food is medicine, like, being proactive with your health instead of reactive with your health, and putting those poisons in your body instead of, you know, being healthy up front. And it's like, that's how you're treating the land.
Benina Montes - 00:15:45
So I
Kyle Krull - 00:15:45
think that's a really nice analog, and I don't think anybody said that before on the podcast. Mhmm. So that was really interesting. 2, you mentioned when that Almond study came out that it was super powerful. What did you learn in the Almond study, and what were the things, like, the takeaways that made you feel like, hey. I wanna do this on my farm. What would look like those key things for you?
Benina Montes - 00:16:04
Six times better water penetration coming in, soaking in. Wow. Yeah. So then does that mean you
Kyle Krull - 00:16:10
can use 6 times less water for the same result?
Benina Montes - 00:16:14
I don't know that we can be that extreme yet, but we are like, that's the goal. Like, how do we increase our soil organic matter and the biology? Like, how do we keep pushing this when we're in basically a desert with a great water system? You know?
Kyle Krull - 00:16:32
Mhmm. Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:16:32
And there there was also way more life with bugs, even rodents, birds. And that's to me, that's just more appealing. You know? I personally, like, take it personally now as I'm driving around, and I see bare ground, and it makes me hurt now. Just thinking it's just so sterile and gross. And couple weeks ago, we actually were giving a tour and I was shocked because they were going this is like the 3rd day of tours up and down the valley. And they were like, wow. You have so many birds here. We've been on this tour, and we haven't seen any. How is that even possible?
Benina Montes - 00:17:05
That is that, like, just dead that birds don't even wanna be on this other other land. Like, it's pretty dumb.
Kyle Krull - 00:17:22
It's it's crazy. I'm reading a book that is not at all related to agriculture in any capacity. But it's Here
Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:28
comes the cow book book plug. What an episode at least.
Kyle Krull - 00:17:30
I haven't I haven't finished it yet, so I don't know if I can recommend it, but it's called undaunted courage, and it's the story of Lewis and Clark journeying across the continent of the United States. And I'm not too far into it yet, but they talk about these, like, legendary, extraordinary geese and duck migrations.
Benina Montes - 00:17:47
Yeah.
Kyle Krull - 00:17:47
And I can only, like, imagine the amount of life to your point, like, wildlife that this land supported before we started spraying it with poisons and sterilizing the environment. You know? And then there's there's the anecdotal studies or or, like, qualitative information you get from my truckers. Like, yeah, there's just less bugs. Like, we don't have to clean our windshields this much. Like, there's so many weird little things that we hear about how there's, like, the life is is leaving the land, which is just super sad. Mhmm.
Benina Montes - 00:18:13
Well and it's just an indication. It's a precursor. How do we not connect that when we have endangered species and we have less and less diversity? Like, we're next.
Kyle Krull - 00:18:24
Totally. Alright.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:28
I'm I'm so bullish on tree crops in regen because I think those are systems that just farming is never easy. Right? So I don't wanna I don't wanna make that, like, my statement here, but I do think those systems are easier to implement the practices as far as what I understand versus, like, heavily annual systems. Benina's facial expression, I can't tell if she's gonna agree or disagree with me. I'm not saying we've seen that level of, of adoption. I I do think kind of annual corn and beans and row crops, we've seen more, like, regen hype or or more whatever. But like you said, Benina, with the bare ground thing, it's like, okay. You have a permanent tree crop that's planted in alleys.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:01
You have all this space between them that you can get vegetation. You could integrate livestock if you can figure out how to sell it and what to do with it. These are all things that that you've done, that you've proven can be done. I'm sure that was very hard, and you'll you'll inform us about, you know, what order did that go and how hard was it, etcetera. But I'm just very bullish on the potential for that because I think it's it's possible. But maybe I've also been led to think it's easier than it is by seeing the beautiful photos of Burroughs Family Farms with vegetation up to children's heads and, you know, animals walking around between the the rows of trees.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:31
So I guess super long way of me saying, let let's talk about the agronomics a little bit and basically how you've built those systems and really layer these practices in. Because when I look at a picture of what y'all do versus, like, a conventional almond farm, it's, like, basically on the right or on the left, it's trees and dirt. And on the right, it's, like, trees, animals, vegetation, just teeming with life like you just talked about. So take us through the the journey of practice adoption, I guess, is what I'm was really really getting to.
Benina Montes - 00:20:13
I do wanna just give a plug for California because we have so many of the first being certified regenerative, but it is 100% a different context than the Midwest. And I always look at that and I'm like, woah. I feel like and I shouldn't say easy because you're right. Farming is hard wherever you are. But I feel like we're going up against a very hard hard industry because everything is kind of based on having this bare ground, specifically harvest because that's how you stay in business is by getting your product out of the field, you know, to processing And so that has definitely been a struggle. Okay. So
Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:00
Hold on. Nina, before before you go from that, explain what that means to people. Like, explain how most people actually get the almonds off the tree and and pick them up from the ground because I think that's important context for people to understand why there is a lot of bare ground.
Benina Montes - 00:21:13
So almonds and we also are farm I don't even think we talked about everything that we're farming, but we're farming almonds, we're farming walnuts, olives, and then we have this flock of of sheep and we also have, the pasture chicken. So, almonds and walnuts are both shaken. There's a machine that comes up, grabs the trunk and it shakes it. The almonds the nuts fall to the ground where they dry 7 to 10 days. Walnuts, you can just go and pick them right up. But the almonds have to dry because there are 3 parts that come off at that time. The first part is a hole on the outside and that's green all year until it starts maturing and it will split open and then it will start drying and then the shell will be revealed.
Benina Montes - 00:21:44
And then inside the shell is the actual nut or meat, which is the almond nut. So all 3 of those are used. The outside, goes primarily for dairy feed. The shell can be used for bedding or landscaping and then, of course, you have the actual product inside. So once the nuts are on the ground, there's a machine that comes through and sweeps it up. You could kind of envision, I don't know, some kind of Roomba system but it's blowing the nets under the tree to the other sides to get it out from underneath the tree and then it's sweeping and putting the nets into a row.
Benina Montes - 00:22:20
So you drive down the row, come back, and then you go up and back a few times. And so if there's a bunch of unevenness, if there's a bunch of grass or even rocks, like, all of that just gives you a little bit more of a of a hassle. So once you get it into that windrow, like, for us historically, we would put it in, then there would be all this grass. So then you'd have to pick it up, blow all the grass out, lay it back down, and then pick it back up. And so the whole industry is set up that way. Like, that's how that's how it's done. So, how do you keep the soil covered? How do you integrate livestock?
Benina Montes - 00:23:05
How do you leave a living root if the industry is set up for total bareness? Like, it's a total uphill battle. But pistachios, prunes, those you can those are in a cat string type system. So, you know, you're hooking up to the tree if and but you there's a receiver so that it doesn't hit the ground. Right. And so we were able to find, find a harvester that we could use that would allow us to get enough acreage covered so that we could actually do it.
Benina Montes - 00:23:39
It's not perfect, but it's allowing us to totally, follow the principles. And we're pushing it to the extreme side. I heard other farmers on different podcasts talk about not adopting regenerative until there was no risk financially, so that they they didn't have to carry all that. And I was just saying, how can they think that way? Because we're never gonna get any traction if that is everybody's attitude. And now, you know, years into this, I'm like, what?
Benina Montes - 00:24:20
It would be nice to have a little less risk and somebody to help us, you know, to kinda help you through this. So, maybe I should've should've listened a little bit more, but I still, you know, for our family, we are just total believers that we can't keep waiting, that we have to move forward with this regenerative. And I mean, not everybody's watched Kiss the Ground or Common Ground, which are very powerful movies, to visually show, you know, what is going on. But like we just talked about, I mean, I don't think endangered species is a foreign concept to anybody. I mean, I think they teach that in elementary school. So I don't understand why people can't connect the dots.
Benina Montes - 00:25:03
But what was your actual question about the
Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:11
Yeah. I wanna clarify one thing that you said just so it really goes home for people that maybe don't have as much knowledge as as the 3 of us. It's like, you had to go buy or at least you can educate us on a very big, probably very expensive piece of equipment that shakes the tree, catches the almonds before they hit the ground versus the industry standard of shaking the tree, letting everything hit the ground, and doing that collection process, you know, like most conventional producers, which it it that's a good illustration of that risk comment that you made. Right? That's a total, like, change that probably has cascading effects into 20 other things that you all have implemented, like the the vegetation and the livestock. The original question was just, can you remember the chronological order of practice and option? Like, did you first kind of start letting the vegetation grow and then you mowed it and then you figured out, oh, we could put livestock on it and then you bought the equipment to do the the tree shaking. Like, what what is that process look like?
Benina Montes - 00:26:03
Well, so having the 2 siblings with the grass based dairy and then seeing the immense biomass that can grow under the almonds, it was always like, how do we use this? We are spending so much time and energy to mow, mow, mow. Like, how can we do this? So there were different times that we tried to put cows in and figured, okay, they're way too big. How about if we try some yearling peppers? Can we try that? You know, and it's, you know, it's not we're this I mean, we're doing this at scale.
Benina Montes - 00:26:26
This isn't like a 40 or 60 acre block that is everything is very close. You know, stuff spread out.
Kyle Krull - 00:26:39
I'm just imagining cows trying to walk in, like, with the corners, like, everything's too small, and they're like these giants, like, running into stuff. Like, literally, like, a bull in a china shop, and it's like cows in an oil and fuel.
Benina Montes - 00:26:49
Well, so you can see I don't know if you can see in the background. The sheep are in the middle. So there is plenty of space for them to walk down the road. But when we started the transition from conventional to organic, because we were doing so much mowing, we ended up putting all of our irrigation in the tree. And so it's probably anywhere from, like, 4 to 6 feet off of the ground. And so, you know, trying to cross the tree row, that's where you can get hung up, you know, so they would Gotcha. Break things or whatever. So, so the transition was, I don't know. I feel like it was gradual.
Benina Montes - 00:27:20
I don't feel like it was, like, a huge thing for us to to be full on regenerative, But we we already had a lot of, ground cover. Mhmm. But we for harvest specifically and the more that we kept learning, you know, about the living root and keeping it covered in soil temperatures, I was like, okay. Well, we gotta really push this. And if we're going full bare ground during harvest and then having to restart every year, like, it just doesn't make sense.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:27:53
Right.
Benina Montes - 00:27:53
Then if you go deeper into that, well, how many passes in the orchard are we actually making? And we're doing When
Kyle Krull - 00:28:00
you say passes, that's how many times do the sheep actually go through the specific section or no?
Benina Montes - 00:28:05
No. This is not even with sheep yet. This is just with tractors. So historically, on the organic side, we couldn't use an herbicide which would kill the vegetation under the tree. Right? So we had to do that in a different way whether so we were going down with side mowers to mow under the tree, and it it's on a tractor and there's like a round head and it will go and then when it hits the tree, it kinda kicks back and comes around it. So we were doing that with mowers behind it going up and back many, you know, many passes through the year. Then we were it would it's we're on double drip, which means that the whole ground is not irrigated. So the middles will be kind of drier,
Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:48
which, okay. The middles between the rows of trees.
Benina Montes - 00:28:52
Correct. Yeah. The middle will dry out. So, so after we did the mowing, then we would use those sweepers for harvest and bring all the veggie all that dried biomass to the middle. Then we would use flamers to basically singe the top of the grass under the trees so that it would be relatively bare, and then we would just mow in the middle. But, I mean, it was not the safest thing, and I'm so glad that we're done with that. Not so that's just to prep for harvest. Then the nets are on the ground. We're sweeping them. Takes it slower. Takes more time.
Benina Montes - 00:29:27
Then we are having to pick up the almonds, get rid of all the trash, lay it back down, then pick it up. And then because we've swept everything into a row, it it can create kind of like a grounds. Then after harvest, you have to go back through and float it out and make it, like, smooth back out.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:48
Yikes.
Benina Montes - 00:29:49
So the last 2 years, all we've done is just mow one time right down the middle. It's called an auger mower or a mow and blow and so it just mows 10 feet wide and moves all the dry material to the sides and that's where we lay the almonds. But this next year actually, we're not even gonna do that. We're literally just gonna catch it and we're gonna dry it outside of the fields. That way we don't, have to spend again all that energy doing that. And I'm just, you know, what does that mean? It means that we can keep building soil organic matter and keep building habitat and have more life for the microbes and, you know, just keep that system going.
Benina Montes - 00:30:21
Talked about temperature a little bit. So it as you start learning more, it gets really exciting to see, okay, this is what my practices are doing. And, like in our walnuts, we we grazed them and then the sheep came out and we didn't really do anything. And the sheep don't necessarily have to eat everything, but even just having them trample the the the biomass down is good. So we have, you know, a pretty thick mat and, you know, this summer it's oh, I think it was probably in the nineties maybe. But with the temperature gun, you know, you're you're easily over a 130, if not hotter depending on where you're at in the valley, and you dig down underneath, you know, and then you're low nineties or even high eighties, that's, you know, 30, 40, 50 degree difference, and we wonder why things are hotter, you know.
Benina Montes - 00:31:08
Like
Kyle Krull - 00:31:28
Well, I just wanna make sure that we because to me, that is super, super important. You're saying that on a 90 ish degree day, air temperature, some farm soil will be a 130 degrees because it's bare. It's not protected. But on your farm, where these, yeah, where the sheep are or hotter, where the sheep have, you know, kind of roller crimps, you know, some level of protection over the soil, you can dig through that and get a temp on your surface soil temperature. And it's high eighties, low nineties, like, very, very tolerable, not killing the life in the soil.
Benina Montes - 00:32:00
Right. Yeah. Amazing.
Kyle Krull - 00:32:03
Mhmm. Incredible.
Benina Montes - 00:32:04
But I don't know that everybody knows this. You know? I don't I don't feel like farmers are like, oh, we're just, like, trying to be so, like, destroying life.
Kyle Krull - 00:32:15
Mhmm.
Benina Montes - 00:32:15
If we look back, where's the information coming to? Coming from, I mean. You know, who's funding universities? Who's teaching the classes that you have to have to get your spray permits? You know? Who who's who's doing all of that? You know? And so, again, you're in an industry where this is how it's done, and it's freaking risky. I mean, on a daily basis, we're all in Vegas, like, literally betting the ranch on
Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:41
Right.
Benina Montes - 00:32:42
A deal. And so it's scary to think, what if I don't spray? Like, what's gonna happen? Will I have a crop? Mhmm. How much production will I go down? So, you know, I I don't want, like, conventional farmers to be painted as like these evil people that are just like trying to kill the world because everybody that's farming is literally like pouring their heart and soul into feeding the people. We just need to work on education and sharing successful stories about why things are are the way they are. And I mean Rick Clark's a great example, of really pushing it also, but part of that was a health a health issue, you know, with him and his wife. And so that's what I don't understand is why do we have to why do we have to get to that diagnosis or get to that point before we make a change. So it's just, again, connecting all those dots. Quick, brief pause. I'm gonna go back to your thing because I still haven't actually answered your question.
Benina Montes - 00:33:32
So
Kyle Krull - 00:33:45
Yeah, Vania, I am learning a ton myself. Yes. I'm very much enjoying. Like, this is such great learnings for me.
Benina Montes - 00:33:50
Oh, good. Well, I really want to encourage you guys to come here and literally check it out. We will. We're we start lambing, next week, and then, we're gonna have another lambing session in January, which are great times to get you to set
Kyle Krull - 00:34:04
up the stage. Not to be confused with the jam session.
Benina Montes - 00:34:07
Oh, right. Just wanna point out.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:34:08
You could combine the 2, though. I think that's what we need to do. I think we need to have a lamb jam session.
Kyle Krull - 00:34:12
Yes. Just a lamb jam. I like it.
Benina Montes - 00:34:15
I mean, my 10 year old well, she's almost dead. But she we moved the sheet down so we can watch them because they're gonna start and, like, every night after so she's like, okay. We gotta go check the sheet. We gotta go gotta go listen. Sorry. I'm they're out the window, so I'm, like, looking at you as a reference. But, so we started learning about, you know, the five principles and, I mean, we had the living roots already because we weren't spraying anything, killing it.
Benina Montes - 00:34:30
We did not have, intentional grazing plan of of integrating livestock. We had tried some peppers. We had tried, you know, especially in the young trees, we could bring the chickens in because there's enough room in the young trees but in a mature orchard, there's not room for the coop to come down. So we had to bring in that. My mom had already started planting hedgerows and we had a few, you know, within an orchard, there's different varieties of almonds, but there's still almonds. But, we ended up adding walnuts and, yeah. Trying to think of what else. Almonds naturally are kind of a no till system on an annual basis.
Benina Montes - 00:35:12
There is major tillage in between orchard plantings But, so so it wasn't that big of a difference, but the animal integration was a big one. So I talked about how wonderful these dairies were. Well, the original one that is our major legacy closed last December. My sister's closed last year, in the fall, and then my brother's closed December 31, 2020.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:35:52
Wow.
Benina Montes - 00:35:54
And so he has a ranch in Oregon and would go back and forth. For many years, he went back and forth. Now there's permanent up there. But he came down. It was I don't know. Maybe it's Thanksgiving, but he was telling us about a flock of sheep that was gonna be available and how he's gonna go talk to one of our friends down here because he had sheep. And I was like, woah. Woah. Woah. No. No. No. Don't don't go talk to that guy. You this we we need to we should get these sheep.
Benina Montes - 00:36:12
We should have them in here. This the dairy is closing. So this will give dad something to do and, this will give something for the, you know, the 2 guys that are working on dairy. This would be great.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:32
Yeah. It can
Benina Montes - 00:36:33
be in the pivots where the dairy was when we're not in the orchards. We should do this. And, so we got 750 bread mews thinking February 5th, one lamb actually on the truck and, you know, we get everything unloaded. And meanwhile, I grew up on this diversified ranch and we had beef cattle. We rode horses. We helped with all that. We worked on the dairy. Definitely was involved in animals. But for, you know, almost 20 years of my adult life, no animals.
Benina Montes - 00:37:00
Free weekends for the most part, like, not having to be tied all the time.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:37:12
Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:37:13
And so the next day, my of the of having the sheep here, my dad was like, yeah, I'm not gonna be managing this. Like, you're you're gonna need to take this on. I was like, woah. This is okay. Alright. Well, we're gonna roll with this. So anyway, it's been definitely, crazy and people frequently tell me, like, you should not keep the sheet. Don't keep the sheet. Like, just make your life simple.
Benina Montes - 00:37:34
But, like, they're so cool, and it's fun. And I like having, you know, my kids grow up with this. And, I mean, talk about building character on a Sunday afternoon. Hey. The sheep are out. You know, I think it's Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:37:54
I think it's good character building for my kids. And it it is very what they're doing is is really awesome for the land. And so, you know, this is our 4th year. And so, you know, in 10 years, who knows what it's gonna do? I'm I'm excited. Totally.
Benina Montes - 00:38:11
So So I'm
Kyle Krull - 00:38:23
all that I'm
Benina Montes - 00:38:23
really curious.
Kyle Krull - 00:38:24
Sorry. Go ahead. Fin all that you finished. No.
Benina Montes - 00:38:25
I was just gonna say all that to say it wasn't such a huge difference, but the intentionality over the last, 4 or 5 years has really, you know, our soil organic matter has more than doubled. Like, we're definitely reducing our water inputs. I mean, I don't wanna throw up crazy numbers but, like, this year, compared to our neighbors where we spent half of the water in our area, we're probably at least 40% lower. And we're not getting the production that they do, but if we can lower our costs and still have production, I'd rather have a better ROI and more nutrient density than, like, say, oh, we got, you know, x number of pounds. Like, how much it cost you though?
Kyle Krull - 00:39:08
Right. You're focusing on net revenue instead of gross. And you can have a profitable system. Awesome. You also started to answer the question I was going to ask you. You know, you implemented these new systems. You've been regenerative for a handful of years now. It sounds like you're saving on water, about 40%. I'm assuming also, you know, less fuel, less machinery with with less mowing. So organic matter, you said you doubled. Can you can you share ballpark, like, from what to what?
Benina Montes - 00:39:35
The last time I looked on one field, I think we were, like, high ones, mid to high ones, and, like, now we're, you know, in the threes, 3a half. I mean, it varies by block, but, yeah, we're definitely going up. I mean, it's incredible to hear, you know, Gabe talk about 8, 9, 10 percent soil organic matter, you know. And there's one guy I know he's I think he's got like 5%. But for those that don't know, for every 1% increase, the soil as a sponge can fold 20 to 25000 gallons more of water. So that's why it's incredibly important that if we get a rain event, we don't wanna just say that it rained half an inch. We wanna say that our soil soaked up half an inch.
Kyle Krull - 00:40:22
Bettina, I was about to share that stat. We are on the same wavelength
Benina Montes - 00:40:25
right now.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:26
I love that stat.
Kyle Krull - 00:40:27
It's my favorite stat. I think that the regenerative movement as a whole does not talk about it enough, in terms of how it helps to cool literally cool the area nearby, create drought resistant soils, can prevent wildfire. Like, there are so many cascading benefits to retaining more water on land. Also, it reduces carbon dead zones in the ocean. Like, there's just so many benefits.
Benina Montes - 00:40:50
Right.
Kyle Krull - 00:40:51
So I'm stoked that you're sharing that stat as well. The other question I had was, now that you've been doing this for for a few years, you mentioned your your neighbors aren't necessarily all there yet. Are are you starting to get some neighbors peeking over the tent and, like, you know, hey, what are you doing over here? Is it working? What's the reception been like with your farming peers in the area?
Benina Montes - 00:41:10
So, when Actiases came to do the study, they were sharing the results. And that's why we had the first field day in 2022 was to start sharing that information. And so there's one guy that has totally, has totally jumped in. He converted 1 orchard to organic. He's going region now with it. But it's very hard to stay committed when there's not enough machinery to do the capturing style, you know, and it just can create some struggles. In the last few years, the almond industry has not been financially very well. Right? So people are trying to cut cost.
Benina Montes - 00:41:48
So I haven't seen more cover and than I have in the last couple years than I have in, like, 20 years, you know. And I think it's just a reflection of people trying to cut cost but it's been pretty cool to see so much more just volunteer vegetation out there, which is going to be great for the water cycle, because when it rains there's those, those raindrops are actually gonna have a place to go versus just the brown the bare soil. I mean, we've seen a ton of top foil runoff especially after a new development where they're trying to keep everything super clean. You just have these sticks coming out of the ground and then it rains and, you know, you're just washing a ton ton of dirt away. But there are people watching. I don't know if they think we're totally crazy or not or if they're like, what are they doing with this?
Benina Montes - 00:42:35
But, this will be this January will be our 4th year and we're actually changing the name of our field day from the regenerative almond field day to the regenerative tree nut field day because we're also growing walnuts and we're there's people that are trying to move in in this direction and so I'm trying to the peep the personalities that fit well, like, I'm trying to get us together so we can move the industry forward faster. I mean, we're we're only harvesting once a year so it's like, did we have enough bees? Did you have enough chiller hours? How much did you prune? Like, all of these things play into to the role and so we can all be working together to figure out what strategies work for regenerative then we can advance it that much faster. But our, you know, the the the field days keeps growing and, you know, we're definitely getting other people on board to come.
Benina Montes - 00:43:24
It is hard though because this term regenerative is becoming popular even though people may not necessarily be as intentional about the principles as we are.
Kyle Krull - 00:43:47
Mhmm. Totally. I mean, you got a couple city boys here having a podcast where we talk about regenerative. You know? We don't I I've not spent many working days on a farm. So it is becoming popular, which is both a great thing and potentially a scary thing. Right?
Benina Montes - 00:44:00
Yep.
Kyle Krull - 00:44:01
I have a random almond question for you and then I want to pivot and start talking about the brand. Oftentimes I've driven through some areas of Northern California and I think what I'm looking at are almond trees and they have a, like, black rim around the bottom, like, the base of the tree right above the soil. Is that are those almond trees? Number 1. And if so, what what is that and why is it there?
Benina Montes - 00:44:24
I don't know.
Kyle Krull - 00:44:26
Okay. Maybe maybe pistachio, maybe something else, but I've seen it numerous times on some sort of, I don't know, some sort of free fruit that something. I don't know. Again, not a farmer, clearly.
Benina Montes - 00:44:37
It's
Anthony Corsaro - 00:44:37
gonna be in one of the books you read soon.
Benina Montes - 00:44:39
Yeah.
Kyle Krull - 00:44:40
The answer.
Benina Montes - 00:44:41
Probably. Walnuts are, like, probably darker. Like, walnuts can be painted white sometimes for sunburn. I think the pistachio trees are, like, less not as dark either, But I don't know if it's a function of something that they're spreading at the at the time that you happen to be driving by or if it's, like, a a natural thing or is it, like, something that's attached? I don't I
Kyle Krull - 00:45:03
don't It looks to me like it's a human implemented system to protect something on the base of the tree, but, again, I I don't know that to be true. And, yeah, maybe it's just the
Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:13
kind of color of the tree, or does it look like something's, like, wrapped around it, like, an additional It
Kyle Krull - 00:45:17
doesn't look like it's wrapped. It's not a material. It looks like a spray and or almost like a paint. Like, very like, quite thick.
Benina Montes - 00:45:27
I I know on almonds, like, we'll paint the end row, like, the the end tree to designate the different varieties. Like, pink brush, pink pink is nonparallel, purple is padre, like this bluish green is beaut. Like, there's there's paint on the ends that reflects a variety sometimes. But, yeah, sorry. I don't have an answer to that. But later that could
Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:48
be the answer?
Kyle Krull - 00:45:49
It's it's continues to be a mystery. Maybe one day we'll solve it. If not, you know, it's it's okay to have mystery.
Benina Montes - 00:45:55
Well, tell me what talent it is later, and then, you know, we can investigate.
Kyle Krull - 00:45:59
Okay. I'll keep you posted. I probably won't even remember, but I'll try to look it up on that.
Benina Montes - 00:46:03
Okay.
Kyle Krull - 00:46:04
But, yeah, let's let's pivot to the launch of the brand. So I know it started with the eggs. You know, then it was, like, I think the flavor to seasoned almonds. Mhmm. What was it like starting a brand and starting to sell into places like Rainbow Grocery and then having conversations with some of the larger markets in the area?
Benina Montes - 00:46:23
It was awesome working with the independents that can pivot and change, like, just so easily from week to week. On the eggs, you know, most eggs sold in a grocery store are a large size. Most recipes are for a large, but the chickens don't always lay a large. Sometimes they lay a jumbo or a medium or a small. And so it's been very awesome to be able to work with with these independents that can just pivot with week to week or if you need to run a special. And so that was my retail experience was literally like a phone call or a text message like, hey, Kelly. You gonna take in mediums this week instead?
Benina Montes - 00:46:49
Or how about if I throw a discount? How many more cases can you take? And so, like, the 2 month lead time to plan out promos or, you know, all of that stuff was like, what? What are you talking about? Like, that is so crazy to me that it's just so obviously corporate. And how do you work in a food system that is set up for this?
Benina Montes - 00:47:12
It's been definitely a learning curve for sure. Yeah.
Kyle Krull - 00:47:28
Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, farming is hard enough as it is. And, again, this is just based on what you shared, not my personal experience, but trying to then navigate retail, sales, I can't even imagine, like, trying to do both of those at the same time. You mentioned planning for almost 2 months out, sometimes 6 months out or more. Oh, yeah. And to your point, if you're just dealing with Yeah. You don't know where the chicken's gonna lay 6 months out. How could you ever understand that? Right? So, yeah, it's gotta be tough.
Benina Montes - 00:47:55
Yeah. But it almonds are awesome because they have a long shelf life. So going away from the perishability of the eggs into, like, you know, this shelf stable product is is definitely a lot easier. It's definitely not milk or eggs, so that's really good. Yeah. I'm glad that we're we're establishing a good team that is navigating this, you know, we're we're thankful for which is crazy to say, in the world, but, like, thankful to our brokers that are helping us and, you know, I the more and more connections that we can make with with the retailers, the better it is and, you know, Whole Foods was able to come out this year and, like, actually see what we're doing and see, taste, feel, everything that that we're putting into this. The passion, the love of the land, and, really diving into that and making that connection. In fact, CEO Jason was able to come with with his team.
Benina Montes - 00:48:38
They actually installed, like, this labyrinth, on this really cool area of the farm, and it was really special special time.
Kyle Krull - 00:48:58
Hell, yeah. That's awesome.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:49:00
Yeah. I I wanna bifurcate the conversation and do maybe one thing really quick and then spend more time on on the latter. So the one thing really quick that I would just love to for you to speak to, Benina, is just you've had to find a market for some of these livestock products that aren't necessarily the same as a, you know, almond or almond butter based brand with national aspirations. Like, this is more of a local regional thing. So I just quickly want you to speak to the context of as a farmer, that's a whole different kind of business that you had to create. And I wanna come back over here to the, you know, to the more almond based products that have a different kind of scope as a brand and and talk about that. But first, could you just speak to kind of some of the challenges and complexities of building the markets for these additional products from the regenerative practice adoption?
Benina Montes - 00:49:45
Yeah. So the main thing that we brought in were the sheep and, we were coming into this, like, during COVID and then post COVID, which a lot of the specialty or higher end markets where lamb was going were kind of depressed during that time. So I feel like we have not, like, landed on the perfect outlet for our delicious grass fed regenerative lamb. And it's, you know, it's a challenge because if if I wanna sell direct, I have to find a USDA facility. I have to have, you know, freezer cold storage for it and then figure out how to ship it in a way that will get to the customer. So we have just been dabbling on that side. You know, we've been more in the mentality of well, when we first started, to be honest, I was like, oh, they're just taking the place of a mower.
Benina Montes - 00:50:30
So even if I'm not making money on the actual sheep, I am not spending as much on on, mowing or fuel or whatever. And so now, you know, as we keep evolving, it's like, alright, everything needs to carry its weight and we need to dial this in better for sure. So we I don't have a good answer. They just kind of been going into the market, and somebody's been very special not knowing what they're actually getting. Mhmm. Yeah.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:08
Makes sense. I love how it still has that cost reduction benefit even if you haven't found the perfect, you know, repeatable kind of sales channel for it yet. On the branded side, one thing I'm curious about is, like, where do you see almond based products? Right? Like, we know that the nut butter category is not growing as fast as it once was. You obviously have the whole kind of almonds that are snackable, but I think, you know, it's like that that's not a super innovative product. It's just a it's a whole ingredient. So the ceiling for the growth of that somewhat limited.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:35
You guys have the concentrate now, like, where where do you all see the future of almond based products and potential new product innovation type opportunities?
Benina Montes - 00:51:49
Number 1, I think almonds are amazing because they are so versatile. And I mean, just with a handful of almonds, like, if you couldn't eat anything else and you could only eat, like, a handful of almonds, like, it would keep you going for a really long time.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:04
Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:52:05
So I am very proud of that just the nutrient density that these almonds have. And, I know they get a lot of bad wraps for water usage, but, it's also a plant. It's it you know, they're they're a good thing to have. We just need to figure out how to do it with less inputs. But they worked for gluten free. They worked for keto. They worked for, like, so many different styles of eating. I mean, I we're we're trying to innovate and come up with some new stuff.
Benina Montes - 00:52:30
I mean, the idea on the almond milk concentrate is why add that other step of adding water when you think about all of the products that are shipped across the nation. You know, we're shipping so much water which is also heavy. So with with that, I mean, it's shelf stable. It makes 7 ports, but Americans are lazy. They don't wanna, like, put one scoop and mix it with some water and, you know, add it to their thing. But, like, for smoothies, it's great.
Benina Montes - 00:53:00
You know, you don't have to have you know, you go to Costco and your your shelf is now filled up with a bunch of of space. And so that's why that's why this thing to us does make a lot of sense because of that and easily customizable, great to add to smoothies.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:53:23
Tastes great.
Kyle Krull - 00:53:24
I've had it.
Benina Montes - 00:53:26
Yeah. Like, I I use it to make granola. You can use it for any of, like, the Asian, like, peanut sauce deals. But we're we're still working on it. I mean, somebody mentioned, you know, like, you can open an almond chip or, you know, something something else that way, maybe sauces. But but it is I mean, what's crazy to me is, like, the top 2 shelves, like, those products literally only have one ingredient. You know? Wow. And so I think we were talking about connecting all the dots and, you know, why how how do we get people to connect more of that and there's no food coloring added in there, you know, there's not added sugars. That and that's what our family is trying to do is to produce really good high quality, products that are good not only for the planet, but also for the person.
Benina Montes - 00:54:09
Mhmm. And so, you know, that takes education. And but also, like, I don't want our products to only be, like, this elitist thing that are just only for a select few. You know? And so we've been in glass, for a long time, and there are a lot of purists that want that. And I wanna be able to provide that.
Benina Montes - 00:54:35
But it again, it's heavy and we've had some supply chain issues trying to find, to find the right jars. So we're actually switching to an r p e t, which will lower the cost on the shelf by a lot and make it much more approachable so that it is more accessible to just a normal person that wants to try it, but also should help us get that much more velocity also.
Kyle Krull - 00:55:10
Out of curiosity, what's the percentage difference switching from glass to plastic? Are you is it gonna be, like, a 20% reflection on shelf, 10%?
Benina Montes - 00:55:18
I think that we were, like, normally, like, 2199. I think we're trying to be in the 14, 1599 range now.
Kyle Krull - 00:55:25
Oh, wow. That is significant difference. Yeah. It's, like, 25% reduction. Yeah. It's that's massive.
Benina Montes - 00:55:30
Mhmm.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:31
Is is there a specific way that the I can't see that well, the shelf, but I'm assuming the almond butters is one of the things you're talking about that has only one ingredient
Benina Montes - 00:55:41
or no? Yeah. So the so the creamy is literally just roasted almonds that are ground up. The crunchy is, again, roasted almonds ground up with some, like, chunks left in it. And the almond milk concentrate is just, almonds that have had the skin taken off and then run through the same grinder.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:00
Is there some proprietary manufacturing process that lets you do that? Because, like, all these other nut butters I see on the shelf have, like, 17 additives and gums and all this other bullshit. Like, is there something proprietary about that, or how how is that even possible? And why is everyone else have all this junk in theirs?
Benina Montes - 00:56:16
Well, we want ours to, like, taste good naturally on its own. So we pick a certain variety that has a higher oil content that just really shines through. And a lot of nut butters, especially from back in the day, wanted to buy, like, the cheapest
Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:33
Yeah.
Benina Montes - 00:56:34
Junkiest, like, chipped, broken, tiny pieces that they could you know, it's just gonna get ground up. So what does it matter?
Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:41
Except child nuts.
Benina Montes - 00:56:42
As soon as the nut is, like, broken or or, you know, manipulated, it starts breaking down because this because the skin on it is altered. So so that's one of the reasons I think why our stuff tastes so good is because we're using quality ingredients that, you know, that haven't started breaking down. And I think that shines through really nicely in in the flavor of our homes.
Kyle Krull - 00:57:10
Mhmm. I'm curious from a retail road map perspective. It sounds like you've got pretty pretty decent distribution as it stands. Are you hoping to continue to scale the brand and go for, like, national distribution? Like, what are the goals for the brand, long term?
Benina Montes - 00:57:25
Yeah. So going back again to California, it's it's hard to be a business here. And I think not just in farming, but in all businesses, we have seen a a big exodus into other states or other countries. And so being vertically integrated and being able to help with your future path is going to be very important, I think, to stay viable to stay here in California. And I don't know if you guys know this but 80% of the world's almonds are grown in California. They're not you may be able to grow a tree in another state, but not necessarily get the production. And I know that people are trying, and climate change may totally make it possible for Idaho or Oregon to be able to grow these now at scale. But, all that to say, yes. We wanna keep growing and and, and get our products out there.
Benina Montes - 00:58:08
And, I mean, this is a a dream, but, like, how cool would it be to actually have partner farmers because there's more and more demand for this. You know, there there's a handful of brands out there that are truly buying regenerative almonds, but there's a lot that aren't. And, it that's been very hard for me to watch these brands that say that they're so committed to regenerative and yet they're still buying conventional almonds, which goes into, like, you know, the whole broken food system that we have. And so, yeah, it's definitely a struggle, but, I think if we can just keep having quality and goodness that, hopefully, we can continue to grow and do that. And, I mean, again, those are just 2 products, but I I'm kind of excited about, you know, maybe some functional nut butters. I don't know I don't know that the that, mainstream is, like, up for all these things but, if we can get back to that food as medicine, you know do you guys take selenium as a supplement?
Kyle Krull - 00:59:27
What Brazil? Which are, yeah, high in selenium.
Benina Montes - 00:59:30
Yeah. So I, you know, as as we look at, food as medicine, like, that's something that is really interesting to me, because what if you could just take one, you know, one bite of of almond butter and with with Brazil nuts and and get your selenium. Most soil is deficient in selenium, so we all should be actually taking that.
Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:52
Have y'all done any nutrient density testing and comparisons there, Benina? Like, to have that raw data yet or no?
Benina Montes - 00:59:58
We sent some in this year, but we haven't gotten the full results back yet. I'm interested in seeing that and, you know, I mean, it's a slow process. We're not using a bunch of bio stimulants at this point. Yeah. But but, you know, that's the goal is to see what can we do as we keep pushing this forward.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:17
The the data provider and the scientific team behind those results also has to go build the baseline of all the almond crops. Right. So part of it is, like, you can submit all the individual test samples you want from your farm, but unless they have a robust, you know, sample size of everything else, you can't comp anything anyway. So that's part of it too that I think people don't always realize.
Kyle Krull - 01:00:37
So, Benina, I see on the shelf behind you, there's a big n with a, I don't know, blue sun around it. This is my terrible way of describing an XT award. But tell us about that award, what that means to you, and then, you know, what else are you hoping to get out of, like, retail? I mean, does does that award help with retail? Who are your best retail partners today? What do you wanna see out of retail?
Benina Montes - 01:00:57
Yeah. So this was from the 2024 Expo West food show and so we got the next award for planet forward products for our almond milk concentrate which, is super awesome because we're not shipping, you know, water all over the place. It's shelf stable, takes up less space, super customizable. So we're really excited about that and again, it only has one ingredient in there. So we're really proud of it, and hope to see it, you know, expand and go go outside, of just Amazon or our website. Mhmm. I think you asked about retail and so we've we've really enjoyed who we've been working with so far, which in California has been a lot of independence But, you know, super thankful to Whole Foods for, getting us going on the West Coast.
Benina Montes - 01:01:33
I mean, it's really awesome to see your product on a shelf of of just a mainstream store. And it's even more special to be there with your dad with this big cowboy hat and this big old beard, like, grabbing, you know, his name on the jar bottle, like, is really, really fun.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:06
That's amazing.
Benina Montes - 01:02:08
But, you know, how do we how do we keep moving this forward and and make sure that the products that are on shelf aren't greenwashed, that are really actually taking care of the planet? And, you know, I think that that's gonna be have to be a a big coalition. It's gonna have to be a lot of teamwork. The whole it takes a village. So we're gonna need retail partners. We're going to need distribution partners and and production and then the farmer. We gotta get everybody on the same page rowing the boat the same direction.
Benina Montes - 01:02:34
And so, you know, the more that retailers can get out and and see what's happening at farm level and and help just with that whole supply chain, and getting that going is going to be very important. And and it's it's not something that we can just keep waiting on that, you know, well, the review for the category is not happening till this place because it literally is going to take such a huge effort to get more and more acreage changed and and move this faster, we need everybody on board. We need everybody on board now. So, my encouragement is just to have more connection and and just get more and more skews going. And, you know, it's going to take time and it can't all just be an elitist product. So, you know, how do we incorporate certain products?
Benina Montes - 01:03:18
I've been disappointed to see that the regenerative almonds slash even just trees has hasn't grown faster, but we need it to. Coming from the Central Valley where experts repeatedly say that this is the most degraded soil on the planet is heartbreaking. Okay? And I live here. So how how do we encourage people to do this? Well, it's it's literally going to take everybody to to get going on that.
Benina Montes - 01:03:49
So I think I've said that multiple times over and over. So, just, I don't know, we just need more people to have the buy in.
Kyle Krull - 01:04:05
I totally agree, and I appreciate every every point you just said. And I think that there are a number of retailers who are doing great things to support Regen, and I think that they can still be doing more at the same time. Yeah. In particular Me too. A lot of retailers have, like, a good, better, best pricing system, and regenerative products by default fall into that best category. So they tend to take a higher margin on regenerative products that already have a higher premium. Right?
Kyle Krull - 01:04:23
So in my mind, I would love to see retailers commit to regeneration by taking a lower margin to make it more price competitive, to increase velocities, to increase demand, which could then transition more acreage faster to save the solar you're talking about in the Central Valley. And those are the cascading effects we can have with true partnership. So
Benina Montes - 01:04:48
I don't
Kyle Krull - 01:04:48
know how that actually happens. It's really hard to tell a retailer, hey. Make less money on this product. You know? But at the end of the day, like, we're literally trying to save the planet. Not to sound too grandiose, but that's the work we're doing.
Benina Montes - 01:05:00
That's the reality of what we really are trying to do. And it I mean, that that's definitely those are definitely really good points, but it's even just saying yes. Like Yeah. Say yes to these products and get them get them out there so that they're in front of more and more people. And don't put them on the bottom until put them on the very top, you know, in a in a in a saturated place. Like, give them a good a good spot. And there are definitely like you said, there are definitely retailers that are doing that. But, you know, how do we share more and more with them?
Benina Montes - 01:05:30
And it's just making those connections and and, you know, having those relationships, I think, to make that work more and more.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:40
Yeah. And shameless plug for the state of regenerative CPG report we just put out, but we talked about this. You know, we talked about a challenge being the fact that regenerative brands are building these supply chains without the proper rewards or incentives. And so Kyle's idea of kind of pricing architecture changes, but also we put in there, can we eliminate or reduce slotting fees? Can we eliminate or reduce free fills? You know, there's there's all these things. And the grand takeaway is we have to create some sort of economic incentive beyond just it helping you get on shelf because, ultimately, that's only half the battle. Right?
Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:03
And so appreciate everything that everyone's done there. Please keep doing that, retailers. And we have to create some economic incentive for this because we are all saying verbally that these systems have value, but the brands are actually not really allowed to capture much of that value economically right now, and we just have to find a bridge to that. So we're looking forward to continue to brainstorm with the coalition membership and also produce content and research with the institute that could illuminate some potential pathways to to try there. But it all comes down to, once again, how do we create some sort of better economic incentive or reward for the enterprises doing the work?
Kyle Krull - 01:06:51
Amen. Totally agree.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:52
Yeah. Benina, I just wanna thank you and kinda commend the work that you're doing in the space. And every time I see you talk or get interviewed or talk at a trade show, you know, you're talking about, hey. Like, here's our story. Here's honestly how it's been. You can do it. We're doing it on a 1000 acres. Like, we're doing it at scale. Like, it is possible.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:07:04
And so you've been a you've been a very empathetic and realistic voice, I think, in supporting, like, other farmers and the transition of that. But also on the CPG side, you know, you are certified both by both rock and regenified, and I think that's a very cool and kinda unifying move by you. So, one, I just wanna thank you for all that you're doing there, participating in the research studies, the field days. Like, I think it's a a huge part of it, and I think we all know, like, you're not making money from any of that. If anything, you're you're probably paying money to do all of that. But can you just talk to us about, like, why is that advocacy so important?
Anthony Corsaro - 01:07:36
And why did you choose, like, on the branded side to support multiple certifications in a space where we feel like it's gotten rather divisive at this point?
Benina Montes - 01:07:53
Great question. So I I mean, you heard the story about why we're committed to organic and, you know, it's even more and more relevant as my mom and dad have both had cancer. I mean, it's it's hard and it's like we're we're more and more committed like basically every day. And so it made sense for us to go rock, you know, regenerative organic alliance, get get that certification because we already were organic. But, you know, it is very contentious and you have die hard organic people that are, you know, so passionate about organic and and I do I love the passion from everybody. But there are just so many acres that need to be touched. And, you know, we have the opportunity to also get Regenified certified.
Benina Montes - 01:08:34
And so we thought, well, why don't we lead by example? And and so we have both certifications. Regenerified isn't perfect. There isn't any any certifier, I don't think, right now that is perfect. But if we can get more and more acreage to start being covered, to have a cover crop, to have living roots.
Kyle Krull - 01:09:09
Mhmm.
Benina Montes - 01:09:10
We just have to start. And I feel like Regenified has a way to get somebody started. They'll take you where you're at, and every 3 years you have to show reductions. Yes. There are products that they're using that I don't want to use. You know, I don't wanna consume them. I don't wanna use them on my farm. But for the greater goodness of the planet, I think that we need to be able to take farmer Joe where he's at or farmer Jane and, you know, get them get them started.
Benina Montes - 01:09:30
And really, I don't for me personally, like, I don't know that you even need to say regenerative or, you know, say you have to be doing all these products, but literally, how do we get chemical reduction and how do we get the soil covered more for temperature, for water infiltration. Like like again, I don't care how you say it just freaking do the principles. We need it for the planet. And I mean we're organic certified. We're regenerative organic certified. Now we're regenerified.
Benina Montes - 01:10:12
We're even real organic project certified, and now we're Naturelens certified, for some products know that
Kyle Krull - 01:10:21
one. So
Benina Montes - 01:10:22
into Europe. Yeah. It's overwhelming. It's a lot of paperwork. Like, it's beyond. But, what we're doing is different. It is unique, and, we wanna be able to tell our story, and the certifications help do that. Part of the reason also was because the CDFA, the California Department of Food and Ag, was going to be coming out or is coming out with their definition for regenerative. And 40 years ago, you know, that's what they did for organic. And then that had a lasting impression because the USDA picked it up and then after all that happened, that went with the planet or, you know, so, we see that that's gonna be happening with regenerative and, again, we are choosing to farm regenerative and organic. That's what we wanna do. We do think that that's, like, the best way that we can go, for the world, but we have to start somewhere also.
Benina Montes - 01:11:10
So I know that there's a lot of brands that are very die hard one way or the other. But, how literally, how do we make the world a better place? And I think drawing a line in the sand and saying that you're not something where you are with that line is it's it's not it's not making the world better. You know? And I I think we need to take egos and all of that stuff out of it. But at the same time, we all need to stay alive financially as well.
Benina Montes - 01:11:47
So
Anthony Corsaro - 01:11:51
Right.
Benina Montes - 01:11:52
It's a very hard, hard deal, but we don't have planet b. We just have this one. So we really need to take care of it.
Kyle Krull - 01:11:58
I love that phrase. We don't have planet b. I'm also inspired to hear you talk about this, and I don't think we've ever had a brand on here who's both Roc and regenerified certified, let alone the others you listed. And it's it it really is inspiring to hear you talk about this because and I think that to your point, there are some brands who are super heavy in both camps, but there are also a number of brands who want to work with brands regardless of certification because they are doing the right thing. And you are embodying that so well. And to your point, like, this movement isn't about having a super premium product for x percentage of the population only, you know, benefiting x percentage of arable land. We want this to grow. And by allowing there to be multiple definitions and or certifications of what this regeneration movement can be, that gives us the opportunity to convert more acreage faster.
Kyle Krull - 01:12:35
So totally agree with everything you said, and and it really is, like, impressive to to see the investments you're making on your end to make your own life harder, to do something you don't have to do, to try to lead by example. So I commend you for those efforts.
Benina Montes - 01:13:00
Thank you.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:01
Mhmm. Amen.
Benina Montes - 01:13:02
I'll call you when I need a pep talk, when is a hard day.
Kyle Krull - 01:13:05
You let me know. If that's the support I can provide, I'm I'm happy to do that, and I'll buy all my book for sure.
Benina Montes - 01:13:11
Fantastic. We
Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:13
you and I were extend, exchanging some pep text last night, I thought, Bonita. So we were doing a we were doing a text version of a pep talk last night,
Benina Montes - 01:13:21
which I appreciated. But it's that's why we need the community, and we need the connection because there are some really hard days. And you ask yourself, is it worth it? You know, when you're when you're trying to lead by example and do this and and, I mean, my parents always had this saying they would sign the Christmas cards with, and it was make the world are you making the world a better place? And I was like, I hated it. Hated it growing up. And I literally almost say it daily, if not, you know Yeah. Weekly, if not daily.
Benina Montes - 01:13:43
And it's so true. Now I am them 40 years 20 years ago. I am middle aged and I, you know, am raising my kids and helping my parents and, you know, it's hard. But we literally have to have that mentality of how do we how do we make the world better. And, you know, we're doing it through the land, but but it's literally gonna take every everybody to do it. Mhmm.
Benina Montes - 01:14:11
And that's why we have these cool shirts to say farming for the future, because we want a future.
Kyle Krull - 01:14:23
For those who are listening, it is styled like back to the future, and it is farming for the future, which I really dig. Awesome eighties throwback.
Benina Montes - 01:14:31
Mhmm. So,
Kyle Krull - 01:14:33
Benina, you mentioned the importance of this community, and you have recently become a member of the Regen Brands Coalition. And, you know, we've only had it's been live for just over 3 months at this point. But curious to get your take on what is it like and and be candid. Obviously, like, we work we built the coalition, so, you know, we won't take anything personally. But what is it like to be a part of this, and what are you hoping to get out of working with brands in this capacity?
Benina Montes - 01:14:59
Well, I I think it's been really good. I mean, we're we're more new to this space. We're a younger brand and so it's definitely interesting to hear some of the same challenges that we have. Again, regeneration, regenerative, ROC, regenerified, they're all a mouthful to say, and they have the best intention, but how do we get what it is to the consumer so that it's not just making us feel good that we're doing all this good stuff, but that we're actually also getting our product to the people and letting them know, like, what it is that they're also contributing to, not just for the planet, but also for themselves, for their own health. So I think that it's it's been really good, definitely learning for us as well. We're we're happy to be part of it and and, you know, share our story too. But I'm I look forward to the future, you know. I like how you guys have it broken down, and I I can just say that I I look forward to seeing what comes out of it, and how we can work together, you know.
Benina Montes - 01:15:55
Now we're connected with to Kyle with Wildway and Tim with Philosophers and, you know, I think it's going to take some of those some of those, relationships to to keep moving moving forward for everybody. And, you know, it to an extent, like, we all have an ego. Right? Like, we all wanna see something something come from from what we've created. But, bigger picture is how do we just move it forward faster and better. And so I think it it needs to be maybe less individual brands and more, unity Amen. With the movement.
Kyle Krull - 01:16:44
Amen. Love that.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:16:45
Love that. Yeah. Thank you for that. And thank you for your support and just being a part of it. I mean, we obviously can't do it without the brands being a part of it. And this initial group of 31, we're so proud of and so grateful for. In that, you know, spirit of collective action and and progress, I'll take us to our final question, that we ask everybody, Bonita, which is, how do we get Regen brands to have 50% market share by 2050?
Benina Montes - 01:17:09
This is a great question, and it's an exciting one because, hopefully, 2050 is still in my lifetime. It's for sure in my kids' lifetime. So I hope that we're surpassing, surpassing that number because we only have 60 harvest left, if that if that. So we actually have to see this major change, for our planet. And how is that gonna happen? It's gonna be happening with so many channels. I mean, we have to definitely have the retailers buy in. And and I mean, that's even going to Walmart and Target and Costco, like
Kyle Krull - 01:17:42
Yeah.
Benina Montes - 01:17:42
They're gonna have to get on board for sure. I'm happy to be connected with Dallas Waters Institute. And here in California, again, I feel like we're leading a lot of the there's a lot of negative about California, but we have a lot of good positives. And the Alice Waters Institute is really trying to push that regenerative and that local with, universities and schools. And so they've been pushing hard to connect farmers to those outlets, which I think is is gonna be very important. You know, hospitals, they're treating people, for issues. And how do we help with that with nourishment? I mean, that's another huge, huge connection right there, for healing, and that's gonna be a big one.
Benina Montes - 01:18:16
So, yeah, I just I guess I would say regeneration gives me hope for the future, if we can just get enough buy on buy in to do it. And at some point, it's just gonna be what it is and it's not gonna have to have a certification or or any of that. It's just I I hope that we see the data that is just how we do it. Like, it's not being done right now. How we do it, that it it's going to be how we do it, and it's gonna have better air quality. We're gonna reinstate all of the water cycles, nutrient cycles. Having the stacked enterprises, having the animals on the land gives us way more diversity in our food choices.
Benina Montes - 01:18:53
I think they said that for, like, 11 brands or 11 companies that own, you know, most of the food systems, and that's crazy. And I think it's, like, 4 that that have the beef production. So all all of the the regenerative context, movements, principles, all of it is is just amazing and I literally look forward to the future because of this way of farming.
Kyle Krull - 01:19:31
Amen. I mean, I love that answer and I also love that you sort of, like, alluded to a future paradigm that likely will never happen. But just imagine if it did, where if regeneration was the baseline and for every negative practice you do, you have to pay for a certification or some sort of a tax to to recoup those external costs that we as a society have to pay for. Right? Could you imagine how quickly big CPG would convert? You know? So I don't know how we ever make that happen, but that that is a future I I would love to live in and talk about the impact I would have on planetary health, human health, biodiversity, our water systems, our water systems, our air quality. It would just be such a game changer. So love that thought concept.
Benina Montes - 01:20:13
Yeah. I was listening to a pod or I today, I was at a workshop with John Kemp, and he asked us to imagine what we wanted our farms to look at look like. And, you know, that I was, like, envisioning an Eden. You know? And I think that we we can bring a lot of those, that picture back to to reality if we are committed.
Kyle Krull - 01:20:36
Yeah. I certainly hope so. And that's a great segue. AC, I gotta do this. It's perfect timing. So go to burrowsfamilyfarm.com to check out their gardens because, I mean, you have tons of pictures on there, and it does look like you've eaten. So that's burroughsfamilyfarms.com. Check it out. You can also subscribe to their products on Amazon, which I highly recommend everybody do, and check out your local independents to see if they care of the product.
Benina Montes - 01:21:02
Mhmm. Amen. And both of us.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:21:05
And all. Yeah. And I I wanted to say, like, it is possible. I think we start by not saying it's impossible. Like, we we that's what we need, and we have to make that happen. So, it it is possible, and I think there's a lot of people doing the work that shows that that's the the case. I think there's a lot of hard work between now and the possibility of it for sure. But, yeah, Benita, just appreciate everything that you're doing, all your support of our work, and just everything you're doing out there in the world. Thank you.
Benina Montes - 01:21:33
Thank you, guys. Happy to be on here today and share our story, and I hope that, together, we can make the world a better place.
Kyle Krull - 01:21:41
Amen. Amen. Thanks, Bonita.
Benina Montes - 01:21:44
Thanks.
Anthony Corsaro - 01:21:47
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