#88 - A Deep Dive Into Our Inaugural State of Regenerative CPG Report

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #88 - A Deep Dive Into Our Inaugural State of Regenerative CPG Report - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 00:00:13
Welcome to the ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for brands, retailers, investors, and other food system stakeholders to learn about the consumer brand supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my cohost AC, who's gonna take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:34
On this episode, we are talking about all things related to our recently released State of Regenerative CPG Report. Many of you have already checked out the report or at least heard us talk about it briefly on episode 81, where we unpack the launch of our new ecosystem. The report synthesizes ReGen Brands' proprietary learnings from almost 3 years of studying regenerative CPG, including 80 podcast episodes, interviewing brand founders, executives, and other key ecosystem stakeholders. It is designed to help you understand the ways regenerative brands are winning today along with the key challenges they face on the road to additional progress. This report is a super easy read, but it's definitely dense. So we wanted to unpack all of it for you today on this episode. So go download your copy and follow along or just listen in as we dive deep into the comprehensive state of the industry. Let's go. What's up, everybody?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:21
Welcome back to another episode of the ReGen Brands Podcast. Very excited today to be dropping in for the first of 2 in a row solo pause with just Kyle and I. So what's up, brother?

Kyle Krull - 00:01:46
Not too much, man. You know, this is the spot where I typically like, hey. We're super excited to have so and so here, but that person's not here. So we're already off script. I already feel outside my comfort zone to a degree, but that's okay. That's why we're here.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:58
We're super excited to just be here with each other, brother.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:01
That's that's what it is. Yeah. Well, no. Honestly, I think it's this is a cool, episode. We're gonna talk about the report, the white paper. It's it's been called so many different things, the state of the narrative CPG that we put out because with with the help of numerous others. And I think it should be fun to talk about. So, yeah, looking forward to this.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:22
Yeah. Hell, yeah. So as Kyle just alluded to, this episode is really dedicated to diving into the State of Regenerative CPG Report, which we put out about a month and a half ago now when we launched the entire ecosystem. So if you listen to episode 81 where we talked about the launch, we did talk about the report a little bit, but we have not really done a deep dive into the contents of the report. And for those few hundred people that have downloaded it, y'all know it's it's rather meaty, so we wanted to unpack it here verbally with each other. But as Kyle said, we'd be very remiss not to start with some major, major shout outs, to the people that help us put this thing together, which would be lead author Katie Finnegan. Huge shout out to Katie. Katie is an amazing human being.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:04
She did an amazing job helping us write this report and just huge, huge kudos to Katie for what this thing turned into. Major shout out to jelly shot, our design partner and our design team. They're amazing. They do amazing work. We'll drop a link to to them in the comments or the show notes as well, but shout out to JellyShot. Super appreciative for them.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:20
And then Christina Tober, who was our lead editor, who helped us get this behemoth down to something that was actually digestible enough for people to read it. So giant shout out to those 3 people and organizations for really helping us put this together and excited to just unpack it all today because it's a it's a giant accumulate accumulation. That's the word I was looking for of, you know, the two and a half, three years of work that we've been doing on all this stuff together. So a lot to unpack for sure.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:57
No doubt. You know, and it couldn't echo, what you said more about the thank yous. This would not have been possible without those folks. Also, big credit to AC for leading the charge and putting this thing together. I sat back and read it a couple of times and provided a handful of notes. But AC, along with those others mentioned, really put the same together. So I think it's important, like, before we even dive into it, talk about why we wanted to create this in the 1st place and what the intention was. So sure. Why do you wanna do this?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:27
Yeah. There was a there's a few different reasons. The first one was we were gonna have this launch, and we wanted it to be a primer of the work we had done today and the work we wanna do in the future. And, you know, white papers or reports like this are typically very important credibility building kind of pieces or mechanisms for the work that we're gonna do in the future as a resource or organization via the institute. So that was really one of the motivating factors. And the other motivating factor was we had done 75 plus podcast episodes at that point, which was definitely 80, 90 plus hours of content. And we had written all these blog recaps. We had had all these conversations, and so we had 100 of hours of content and many, many insights, but we had not distilled that down into some sort of format where it was all summarized and synthesized, in a readable document.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:05:11
So we're not recreating the wheel here. This has been done a 1000000000 times by a 1000000000 other people, but it was time for us at this stage of all the content we had created to kind of create a document like this that could serve as that summary mechanism. And someone doesn't have to listen to a someone doesn't have to listen to a 100 hours of podcast to to get to the insights. And the the third thing that I didn't expect to get out of it that I think we got out of it in spades was really going through the process provided an additional level of clarity and coherence for us internally as to the work we wanted to do and the things we really needed to focus on that I that we had to some to some meaningful degree, but I think made it even sharper. So those are the 3 big kind of motivating factors and or, outcomes of it for sure.

Kyle Krull - 00:06:16
Yeah. I think you're spot on, and I think in particular, like, this document as a resource. You know, we we have a group of listeners, and they they follow along. So they might not get as much value out of this. But if somebody new just wants to get into regenerative CPG and they don't wanna listen to 75 episodes of a podcast to try to extract all the value, this is such a cool consolidated document where they can spend, you know, maybe 30 minutes reading this and pulling all of the key threads out of those episodes. And not only just getting that value from the individual episodes, but to have it broken down to say, like, hey. In this specific piece of nutrient density, this referred to in these 7 different episodes very specifically. And we take that value and we kind of put it in the right place for us. I'm I'm really not saying what I wanna say.

Kyle Krull - 00:06:53
It's like it's it's summarized in the right way. Man, I'm really not saying the the way I want to.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:05
I maybe maybe you're looking for a more eloquent way to just say something that's simple, which is it serves as that really good summary document, you know, like you said. And, you know, for us, we have to find ways to get this information as concise as possible in front of very time starved decision makers. And so at the very least, if someone just downloads the report and reads the executive summary pages and the list of how brands are winning today and the major challenges, they read those 3 pages. They would have a very much increased understanding of the state of the industry, and we have a very unique opportunity, and and I think we both feel responsibility. There's not really another unifier, harmonizer, aggregator in the space because of the division with the different types of claims and because it's a bunch of different individual brands, like, really leading the charge. So, you know, it was our job to go synthesize that chaos a little bit and and create something that was more approachable and understandable.

Kyle Krull - 00:08:06
Yeah. Totally agree.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:08:08
And, hopefully, we can do more of it in the future. I mean, the plan is to recreate a version of this on an annual basis. We'll see how that goes. I mean, we're a young, startup nonprofit, so plans are always changing, but that is the plan to release kind of the the v 2 next year in 2025. So we'll see how that goes. But, sounds like it's time to dive into the content. What do you think, partner?

Kyle Krull - 00:08:31
Yeah. I think I was just gonna ask, you know, like, as this report was being built or once it was finalized, what were some of the most interesting, you know, topics? I guess, topics is the wrong word. You know, value sets, surprises that popped up for you that you're like, woah. That's really interesting.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:08:49
There wasn't too much that was super surprising because it all was, you know, it was all sourced from work we'd already we'd already done and conversations we'd already had. It was really interesting to have pattern recognition that you and I had synthesized, like, qualitatively. But then when we put the report together, we actually marked, like, the amount of brands that have shown this insight or shown this takeaway or demonstrated this possibility or had this problem. Like, it really validated, like, these things are very real, and we have the data to back it up because it's been mentioned 50 times on 85 of the episodes or whatever that was.

Kyle Krull - 00:09:28
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:30
I found it interesting from also the standpoint that, you know, it it created social accountability. Like, we have published what we believe the the problems and opportunities are. So now we're accountable to saying, what have we done to go fix them? And in a way, that's really good for an organization like ours because I think we can get distracted with a lot of bright, shiny objects, and we're certainly trying to do a lot. But we now have a road map or almost a scorecard to come back to on an annual basis and say, hey. This was a this was something we had momentum in. Have we maintained that momentum? Hey. This was something that needed a solution. Have we implemented any sort of solution?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:57
And if we have, you know, how is it better than it was last year, the last 5 years, or whatever? So that was something I didn't expect it to create as much that I'm really happy it has because super beneficial to to our work and just our ability to serve our key stakeholders, which is obviously the most important thing we always need to be thinking about.

Kyle Krull - 00:10:25
Yeah. I think you're spot on. You know, when you articulate the problem, it is almost like you have a responsibility to try to find a solution. Yeah. And that is an interesting byproduct. I didn't even think about that, but it's, you know, a big part of the work we're doing now in the coalition and the institute. Right? It's like, okay. Now we've clearly identified these problems. Can we focus on the top 3 and really try to move the needle and create some potential solutions for these issues.

2 - 00:10:48
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:10:49
Amen. Yeah. I mean, we've said it before many times, and I've said it in a lot of these interviews of, press opportunities we've had post launch. It's like we just uncovered problems we couldn't look away from, and we felt like we had to try and do something to help solve them. It's really it's really that simple at the end of the day. And this document, I think, really created an additional level of clarity that's been super beneficial to have. So let's let's dive into this thing. For those that haven't taken a look

2 - 00:11:19
at it, like I said, we'll drop it as the first link

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:21
in the show notes. It's available to to download for sure. We broke it down mostly into 2 big sections. The first section was called how ReGen Brands are winning today, and there were 9 kind of major takeaways or themes for that one. And then the second section was key challenges and calls to action, which had 6 major takeaways or themes. So we're just gonna spend some time going through each one of those, and riffing on each and giving you all breakdown of each one.

Kyle Krull - 00:11:49
So just kick it off with number 1, you know, and just start start to 0, I guess. You know, the first one and and this is broken down so clearly and so well in the report. So, again, shout out to all of our partners who helped us put this together. But regenerative brands are bringing increased value to farmers and providing price premiums and additional technical and financial support to farmers who are looking to transition. So that's number 1. I think it really is one of the most important things because at the end of the day, like, why are we doing this? Why are we so focused on regenerative CPG? And it's all about scaling sorry, implementing regenerative practices on more acres of arable land. Right?

Kyle Krull - 00:12:15
So if supporting regenerative CPG helps to get more arable land transitioned to regenerative practices, like, that's the end goal. So what were your key takeaways in that section?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:37
Yeah. Few things to to build on that. I mean, I think where we've gotten to understanding the economic realities of these enterprises is a couple things. The the 101 takeaway has always been the brand pays the farmer premium, which allows them to implement or sustain the practices. Yes. I think most people know that at this point. The deeper level I felt like we got to there was if regenerative practices don't lead to greater or, sustaining on farm profitability, like, this thing is dead in the water. And so it was interesting to uncover more and more examples of that. And so the biggest takeaway here is, like, regenerative has to be a better economic opportunity for the farmer to make this happen, and brands are a key lever to ensure that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:13
A couple other things where we have all these really cool countless examples of people building really equitable, fair supply chains in the global south and then using the American market to increase the economic opportunity for those farmers. So I thought that was interesting. And then the other big kind of thematic example was we have countless examples now of folks in the meat, meat brands that are aggregating, creating processing, creating brands, creating market access for a bunch of medium, small, large regenerative ranchers, specifically, that maybe if they had to all go direct to consumer on their own or they had to figure out some sort of other route to market, you know, they wouldn't have as profitable or even a profitable channel at all. So tons of really cool examples of really how these brands are bringing increased value to farmers for sure.

Kyle Krull - 00:14:18
Totally agree. And I just wanna hit hit like, touch on one specific episode, which it still blows my mind, and I've probably talked about it numerous times. It's the Verde Farms episode

2 - 00:14:26
Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:14:26
When they start implementing their rotational grazing patterns with these farmers who have been doing, you know, free range pasture raised cattle, but not with the high stock density grazing methods.

2 - 00:14:39
Mhmm. And one

Kyle Krull - 00:14:40
of the coolest pieces of feedback we heard on that episode was when one of these ranchers in South America, like you mentioned, started implementing rotational grazing, it took less time for his cattle to make weight because the enrichment of the soil was so dramatic that the the nutrient density of the grass that the cattle were consuming helped them put on weight faster Yeah. Healthy weight. Mhmm. And the and the movement helps them build lean muscle. Like, that's the type of value this sort of stuff can provide to these smallholder farmers. And I think that's just such a powerful, example of these people who have been raising cattle for, I mean, centuries, if not if not maybe maybe centuries is wrong, maybe it's decades, if not centuries. Mhmm. It's just really powerful to see that sort of example and that sort of value being brought to these folks.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:15:23
Yeah. The, increasing of the of the grass nutrient density, but also just the general availability of it. Right? And the fact that that could get the the cattle to slaughter faster and affect rancher profitability and economics, like, amazing. And we have countless examples now of of regenerative systems that are doing that, and the brand being the off taker is a key kinda linchpin in making that happen. So yeah. Lab number 1, I'll tell you stuff for number 2, which was regenerative product innovation creates markets that boost biodiversity. What were your big takeaways on that one?

Kyle Krull - 00:15:57
Yeah. The first things that come to mind there are when there are, like, doctor Bronner's, when they start working with regenerative, you know, coconut oil or, whatever else they're they're looking for. And and they start to realize that these regenerative systems require biodiversity on

2 - 00:16:11
farm.

Kyle Krull - 00:16:11
And they can create markets for those same farmers that they're already working with and off take that. And that's why they started making chocolate bars, you know, because I think it was coconut oil or maybe it was olive or palm. I can't remember which oil it was, Paired really well in a regenerative system with cacao beans. So, originally, I think doctor Brothers was trying to find the right partner to to to offtake that ancillary crop. And they're like, you know, why don't we just make chocolate bars? So they did. And I think those sorts of partnerships and the potential power of those kind of 1, 2 combos where it's like, hey.

Kyle Krull - 00:16:36
We're not just gonna buy this major commodity from you. We're also gonna support your regenerative initiatives and increase your biodiversity and give you those markets and pay you a premium for them. That's that's super, super powerful. And I think that's gonna be one of the keys to decommoditizing the system and developing the stronger relationships between brands and farmers.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:00
Yeah. A 100%. And it it really felt like the the value adds that or the value add that, brands were bringing in this one were was one of 2 potential options. They were either ensuring a greater diversity of of offtake for the farmer. Right? So I grow 5 things, and I can only sell 3 right now. Let me sell you the 4th 5th also or create a more stable, more profitable market for the 4th 5th. So creating additional revenue streams for the farmer and also greater offtake of biodiverse growing, systems.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:24
And then there's also all these underutilized or nontraditional crops that these brands are creating markets for, like we had with Zack's Mighty and the Flint corn, like with Pacha and Little Bucks with what they're doing with buckwheat, you know, tons of other examples as well. But, at the end of the day, the linchpin to making all of that happen was every brand had the farmer and biodiversity and the farm ecosystem at the table in product development.

2 - 00:18:02
So it was a strategic part of all those

Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:02
decisions that was then affecting all these amazing outcomes in terms of farmer livelihoods and biodiversity on farm.

Kyle Krull - 00:18:09
Yeah. And to your point earlier, you know, if this is noneconomically viable or, like, at least same or better than conventional farming, it's never gonna work. And this is another one of those perfect examples of, like, how can this be more beneficial to the farmer? It's like, hey. Implement this practice, and don't just let it die. We will buy it back from you, you know, and increase the value of our our partnership. So, I think those are great examples. And number 3 in the executive summary, and this is a super fun one to talk about, is that regenerative products are insanely delicious.

Kyle Krull - 00:18:30
The the proof is quite literally in the pudding, but I think it's important to acknowledge and talk about, you know, some of what we covered in some of the episodes. So what were your big takeaways there?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:44
Yeah. I mean, this one kinda speaks for itself. It probably doesn't need to be unpacked a ton, but we have just countless examples of where brands are winning with flavor, which is super important, and it's something that's never gonna go away. We know flavor is always gonna matter. Taste is always gonna matter. And I like the way that doctor James Richardson talks about it in the book ramping your brand of, like, the entire sensory experience. I actually think we get a little too caught up in taste and flavor when it's out. It's it's about the entire sensory experience of the product, and flavor is the bedrock of that. But, you know, it's it's funny.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:13
I feel like the poster child for me for this one has become Alex ice cream. I'm an investor. I'm a huge fan. I love ice cream. I feel like, you know, I've talked about it a lot, but it's not only regenerative organic a 2 dairy that doesn't upset my stomach, which is part of the sensory experience and very important, but it's the best ice cream I've ever had. And, like, that is why consumers are resonating with that product, and it is an amazing gateway into getting them to care about regenerative.

Kyle Krull - 00:19:47
I think you're spot on there. Big fan of Alex as well, especially their lemon. Whatever their lemon one they dropped recently, man, is unreal. Unreal.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:54
I haven't had that one yet.

Kyle Krull - 00:19:55
Oh my god. It's so good. But there's 2 other brands on the spotlight. In particular, I think Zach's mighty is one that really comes to mind because Mhmm. In Zach's pursuit of creating, I might misquote this, but, the best performing chip in guacamole, something to that effect. Yeah. It led him to regenerative agriculture. He wasn't trying to be a regen brand initially, but in his relentless pursuit for premium performance and flavor, he end up going towards regenerative agriculture. And I think that's a really great story. And it's such a huge powerful aisle to have somebody like him leading the charging is fantastic.

Kyle Krull - 00:20:22
Another one that comes to mind is long table pancakes. I guess, long table, comma, their pancake line, you know, with their ancient grains, stone ground. They're they're again, pursuit of flavor and then realizing they also had the potential benefit to impact the planet is just really, really cool. So I I love that part of regenerative ag and regen CPGs that you don't have to be trying to save the planet. You can be solely focused on taste and flavor and still end up in the regenerative, you know, side of the, arena.

2 - 00:21:03
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:03
And it seems like in at least regen circles, there's enough general knowledge that regenerative practices equal nutrient density, which equals tastier food. Right? There's a lot of stuff we gotta go do to prove all the science and get that really into mainstream consciousness. But a piece that we had uncovered and seen as a very clear theme over a lot of the time that I think is not talked about enough is so many of these brands have unique or proprietary processing, methodologies, or they self manufacture, which allows them to not lose the flavor enhancement that happens on the farm and really carry it all the way through the end product. And that's a key enabler that we probably don't talk about enough. Right? Like, that work to enhance flavor doesn't stop at harvest. It has to go through all the way the manufacturing process, and there's tons of examples of, you know, brands that have been on the pod and brands in the region universe that self manufacture, have proprietary manufacturing techniques to enable that that win.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:48
At the end of the day.

Kyle Krull - 00:22:02
I I couldn't agree more, and I think that's another one of the cool parts of Regen CPG. And this sort of segues into number 4 when we start to talk about the health and wellness benefits because these 2 are interlinked, you know, very, very closely. Right?

2 - 00:22:13
If

Kyle Krull - 00:22:14
you're gonna go through all of the arduous difficult steps to create a product that is so superior in nutrition and flavor, the brands more than most other brands are want to carry that through. Right? They want it to continue to taste great. They wanna make sure that it is as healthy as possible. And I think that's one of the big key unlocks for ReGen Brands. You know, they often more often than not might towards using an avocado oil instead of a seed oil or go with the stone ground older processing, technique that is more beneficial for nutrient density transfer for human absorption. And me, somebody who really cares about my health and is very intentional about what I put in my body, that is such a huge win, and it makes it so much easier to pick up and buy and consume a region brand.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:23:00
Mhmm. Yeah. And it goes against the myth that, like, healthy food tastes like shit, which is not true. Totally. So 4th takeaway, regenerative products win over consumers with health and wellness benefits. Like, I've said, very linked to the to the taste and flavor stuff. I mean, there's just there's countless brands that are really showing, that they have the healthiest or a healthier option in the category, and they're driving a lot of growth with that. And then they're educating consumers on the back end that that comes from regenerative agriculture, and that's a huge factor in that. You know, in the conversation we have with Ryan and what he believes and what we believe about the future of nutrient density, like, we we really do believe this is the the the the gold standard, the the winning strategy, the if we can unlock it, it will make a huge difference. So, you know, I I I know for myself, like, the amount of, ancestral blend packs of force of nature, bison, and beef I've consumed over the last 2 years, and it's a it's a really easy simple way for me to just add those organ meats into my diet.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:23:49
And so it's not necessarily just about regenerative, but it's also about kind of bringing back ancient wisdom of nutrition and the fact that those organs and the beef were formed regeneratively in our nutrition powerhouses.

Kyle Krull - 00:24:18
I mean, absolutely spot on. I like to so a lot of people when they go to, like, parties or something, they'll go bank food and bring it. I like buy a regen brand and bring it, and then we all talk about it. Yeah. And some of the brands I love to buy to showcase, like, that flavor difference and then the the love of cleanliness are really, like, Big Picture Foods Olives. Olives in general has such a punch you in the face sort of, like, flavor profile, and Big Picture is almost like 2 punches instead of 1. And I really like to tell that story about how the brine is the same brine that they're dropping on the farm and just carry over instead of, like, the citric acid and the the flash pasteurization or whatever that they use. Daniella is probably gonna hate me for for botching that. But that one and then I think little sesame is like spun hummus and how much smoother it is.

Kyle Krull - 00:24:54
You know? And people these are foods that people eat on a somewhat regular basis, maybe less so with olives. But you can really taste the difference in the quality, not just because of the crop or the olive or the garbanzo bean, but because of the way they they make it and the level of care that goes into it all throughout the entire process. So, super, super important to let people know that, hey. To your point earlier, AC, this is really delicious food that is better for you and better for the planet, and that is going to have to be the unlock, if this is ever really gonna take off.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:33
Yeah. And I think it's I I find it very interesting to think about how the health and wellness benefits are affecting a product very differently based on the category. Like, is the person buying ice cream or olives or hummus really as concerned as, like, the person buying grass fed grass finished beef or bison? Right? Like, I that's a the the latter is a much more nutritionally minded decision for someone like me. I'm just speaking, like, personally. But if we have this data across all the categories and products, what what's that gonna mean for, like, the consumer of 2030 or 2040 depending on when that all kinda starts shaking out? And I I think we probably don't talk about enough, especially on the regenerative organic side and even the regenerative side where there's a a a vast decrease in chemical usage.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:10
Nutrition is not just what's in the product and the nutrition benefits, but also what's not in the product like glyphosate and other agrochemicals. And I think that still matters a ton if someone's buying ice cream, olives, or hummus versus maybe that it has more vitamin b in it. So that's another thing that I think is is important for us to just think about as we build this consumer messaging around taste, health, wellness, purity, lack of toxicity, etcetera.

Kyle Krull - 00:26:50
I you're totally right. And we'd be remiss not to mention Tim with philosopher Foods during this section who is so dedicated into this nutrition side

2 - 00:26:58
Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:26:59
With his regenerative organic sprouted fermented almonds, which are absolutely insane. I actually have to hide them from my wife because she braves them so often. She'll crush the whole bag. So I have to, like, sparingly, like, take a bag out and put it in the pantry.

2 - 00:27:13
Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:27:14
But and and I think, like you mentioned, not every consumer is gonna be so focused on nutritional density, especially in different categories. But in my own experience, in my own health journey, what I have noticed is that the more nutrient dense, clean, intentional food I consume, the more I crave that type of food, and the less appealing, highly processed food becomes. Yeah. And maybe that's just me. I don't know if if you can speak to that in your experience, but I I no longer have the same taste or appetite for a lot of foods that I used to consume because and maybe maybe it's subconscious or maybe it's I don't know. But I really feel like I crave, like, fermented foods and, like, the gut nuts. I crave those unlike I crave food before.

2 - 00:28:01
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:02
Yeah. I I share that, and it's almost for me, it's almost that, the craving is definitely reduced, but also the the, like, bad aftertaste or the after effect of those foods when I do have them very rarely is heightened and worsened.

Kyle Krull - 00:28:17
For sure. Yes.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:19
Which which I feel like plays a big role into that.

Kyle Krull - 00:28:21
Yeah. Which is both a blessing and a curse. Like, man, you feel you're punished for those bad decisions, which keeps you further away from them. But, like, if you're in an environment where you don't really have a lot of options, like, man, I'm gonna pay for this down the road. You know? Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:32
For sure.

Kyle Krull - 00:28:33
Yeah. Well, let's jump into number 5. This one is, you know, regenerative is inspiring a new class of young and diverse brand founders. I think this one's really cool and it's super well showcased on the pod mainly due to your very intentional curation of our guests. So kudos to you. But talk to us a little bit about that one.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:50
Yeah. I mean, I think we're really blessed and we're very intentional about it, but, we don't need to try incredibly hard to have a diverse founder cohort, join this podcast because the people working on regenerative agriculture are diverse. It can always be improved, but the amount of women led or women owned companies that we've spotlighted, the amount of, BIPOC or LGBTQ, founders and or executives we've had on, I think is is really key. I don't know why I don't have the stats readily in front of me, but they're in the they're in the report, and they're both very good. And they're very, not aligned with with what you would typically see in kind of a business setting of representation. So, I know we're very proud of that, but I also think it's just a credit to the greater mission that these people are trying to serve. And it's funny to go through them now in this in this way together for the first time and see how all of these takeaways seem so linked because one of the interesting things and I I can't remember if if Katie quantified it in the report or not because I'm not looking at that page.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:39
But the amount of entrepreneurs that started a brand because of a health issue for themselves or a family member, like, it it's it's it's a lot of the interviews we've done. It's a lot of the brands that we know in this space. And so

Kyle Krull - 00:30:07
I would venture more than half. What do you think?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:10
That might be strong. It's definitely more than half if you, like, bridge it out to just an awareness of the health human health crisis, right, inclusion. But the visceral personal and our family experience, I don't know if it's half, but it it's up there. It's not it's not 10, and it's not 20. It's, like, more than that, which, you know, I wish we didn't have to go through that to to make something like this happen, but, it is nice that it's a positive outcome of those life experiences, like, I mean, you and I both share. So just interesting interesting takeaway.

Kyle Krull - 00:30:46
Totally, man. And and I almost feel like I shouldn't bring this up. But from a TAM perspective, you know, total adjustable market, like, there are so many other people in this country who are dealing with these issues. And not that we wanna, like, hey. Let people get sick so they can find regenerative products. Like, we certainly don't want that outcome, but that is a very possible outcome. And if we can provide people with not just the knowledge and the information, but the actual tangible good that can improve their life, that's phenomenal. Right?

2 - 00:31:13
Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:31:13
We would prefer them to consume these products before they get sick, for sure. Mhmm. But I think it's great that, you know, once you have had an experience like that, your own health experience, I think it's kind of hard to go back. Mhmm. So it's it's potentially beneficial for all these brands that they're they're providing this potential solution for everyone who's suffering these, you know, ranging from terminal illness to not to diminish, an autoimmune disease, but, like, you know, it it runs the whole gamut. And people suffering from any of these issues are gonna wanna try to find this type of food. Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:31:47
Yeah. And we have some real powerhouse serial entrepreneurs that are very committed to regenerative, which I think is a great, like, indicator of what this thing means. Like, we got Jordan and Agent Nutrition. We got the crew at Force of Nature that came from Epic. I'm sure there's a couple others I'm forgetting. But that's meaningful, and I think that's also meaningful to the rest of the industry that, oh, you're doing your second or third thing, and it's, like, all about regenerative. Tell me more about that. Why why is that so motivating? Like, why is that such a central pillar?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:11
So just just really cool to see people overcome those health obstacles, people so committed to regenerative, and then we also have people bringing in deep elements of their personal experience and or, various international cultures that I think is super cool and very on trend with how, you know, the the the cuisine in this country is getting much more multicultural. So, yeah, lots of cool stuff there.

Kyle Krull - 00:32:40
Totally agree. And I do I did flip to the page. So I think it's an important stat to share. And, again, you get the credit here. The Regen branch podcast, I think we've had 43 of our 92 guests representing at least 1 underrepresented group, which is 47%. So that's massive. And to your point, it wasn't incredibly difficult to make that happen because there is such a diverse group in in kinda leading the charge here, which is really cool to

2 - 00:33:04
see. Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:33:05
Hell, yeah. Alright. Number 6, for how ReGen Brands are winning today is regenerative brands drive retailer and consumer awareness, which is essential for the regenerative movement. This will be a fun one and very corresponding to a couple in the in the challenges section. So what do you think about this one, brother?

Kyle Krull - 00:33:24
Yeah. So I looked up this stat the other day, and this is a chat gpt stats. So sorry. Stat. So take it with a grain of salt.

2 - 00:33:32
But I

Kyle Krull - 00:33:32
was always just curious, like, you know, what does food consumption by sector look like in the US? Mhmm. 5 to 10% of all food is consumed in schools and hospitals. 15% is fast food, 20% restaurants, and 60% is purchased at the grocery store. Right? So that is a hugely important sector of where I mean, hands down, 3 to 1, like, lead over the next closest food is bought and consumed, from grocery stores. And if we think about that where people interact and intersect with food, like, if there's not awareness in that area, that's a huge issue. So the region brands are driving all of that awareness right now.

Kyle Krull - 00:34:08
So it's a critically important channel, and I think, you know, we have to do better as a movement to ensure that we are driving awareness the right direction. And there's a lot of opportunity in the space of retail. And now I kinda feel like I've gone down this rabbit hole that I don't know where to go from here. But, I I just wanted to identify why it's so critically important, why leading the charge in retail is so important?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:34:38
Well, you're you're kind of diving into it in both the way that we're winning and then also teeing up the challenge. So, agreed. And I'll, like, further resonate, like, the why it matters with I spoke at Nosh live, which is a industry event last week. So these these are all mainly, like, better for you, CPG people. And, big big room, big gathering people, probably at least over a 100. And I said, how many people have heard of regenerative agriculture? Every room in the every hand in the room goes up. How many people can walk into the store and, like, go right to their favorite regenerative product and know what it is and buy it?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:35:10
Like, 95% of the hands went down. Like so that is the core issue, which is we still don't have the high level awareness of this term, and we still don't have the awareness of the individual products that have legit high integrity return of claims. And we don't have the linkage for consumers for, you know, what to buy, why to buy them. But the way that we are winning today is we have some early momentum with some really great retailers like Sprouts, Whole Foods, NCG stores, Infra stores, your your natural retailers, natural grocers. They are

Kyle Krull - 00:35:50
Gymbos. Gymbos or Gymbos on that list?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:35:52
Gymbos. Ton there's tons of independents we could add to the list. Do we have the scaled, unified programmatic execution we want at all those places? No. But we have some end caps here and there. We have some signage here and there. We have them prioritizing this in their assortments. Like, those are our wins, and those are big things that we can build off of. And, yeah, I mean, we're just at this very unique point where all this is just starting to proliferate. So we have some some early momentum with retailer preference or at least prioritization. We have increased awareness of these certification schemes and these labels and these claims.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:19
And within the industry, evidenced by my opportunity to really speak and have a 20 minute solo interview slot last week at NASH Live is the industry is talking about it. Like, in trade, it is being discussed. We have the regenerate neighborhood at Newtopia now. Like, there is there is a lot of momentum here, and there's a definite increased awareness at a high level. So what else what else you have out of that, bro?

Kyle Krull - 00:36:53
I think you're spot on. It's really difficult for me not to try to pivot to the opportunities and the way that we can do.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:37:00
We will. We will.

Kyle Krull - 00:37:01
We will. Yeah. I know. So it's not the right time to do that, but I think you're correct. You know, there's a lot of momentum. There have been some really cool partnerships, and it's great to see the brands wanting to collaborate. You know, I think, that's huge, and I think a lot of these brands understand that sort of rising tide raises all ships, regardless of you know, as long as we don't need to get into the the different verifications of verification. The legit region branch want all other legit region branch to succeed regardless of, you know, certification or verification affiliation, which is really, really awesome.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:37:37
Amen. Yeah. 100%. And there's, there's this concept in the book is called the gain versus the gap, where it's, like, leads to a lot of psychological hardship to always just focus on the gap and never acknowledge the gain. And this is a good opportunity for us to acknowledge the gain and think back to, like, when we started this podcast in the summer of 2022, the level of discussion, awareness, clarity on these problems was I mean, we are light years ahead of that now, and so it's just important to acknowledge, like, there has been some very critical wins, in the space in terms of of that, and some opportunities which we'll which we'll talk about here in a little bit.

Kyle Krull - 00:38:18
No doubt. I wanna jump into number 7, which is regenerative brands challenge business as usual.

2 - 00:38:25
Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:26
Yeah. So this was a fun one, and there's this whole concept of regenerative thinking and regenerative business beyond just regenerative agriculture and love a lot of the work that people are doing in that space that I think originates mostly from Carol Sanford and a set of elders that have really passed down some really cool wisdom in that regard. But there's so many of these brands that are not just settling for we source from returns. You know, they're building these returns principles into their businesses, and they're also finding new ways to commercialize these products that are different, like the proliferation of some of these brands that are really focused on food service or direct to consumer ecommerce versus just retail. And, you know, some of the brands like what TreeRage Farms and Soul Simple have set up with these multilayered, multientity corporate structures that are delivering so much, not only regenerative ecological benefit, but, like, social equity benefit to their stakeholders and their farmers and the places that they live. Like, just really cool and, it's just super impressive.

Kyle Krull - 00:39:30
Great with everything you shared. One of the episodes that really stands out to me is Kyle Koller from Wildway. Yeah. I when he when I think about somebody who's trying to challenge business as usual, like, he is the epitome of that in my mind.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:39:42
Yeah. Just look at his LinkedIn post. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:39:44
I was just gonna say he does a great job articulating that during the episode and highly recommend following him on LinkedIn because he's consistently posting about some of the I don't know what the right the term is, but I will call them common problems in the industry and why the food industry is so backwards and why it's so difficult to be a brand that's not just to your point, to be trying to source, regenerative ingredients, but trying to be like a different type of entity and to do business differently. So I I think he embodies that spirit better than anyone that comes to mind for me.

2 - 00:40:15
Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:15
And I I really appreciate Kyle's leadership in his, capacity to challenge the hypocrisy of some of the things that we do in this industry and a lot of the powerful people and entities that say things, but they operate in the exact and typical way every single day. Mhmm. That's not hard to do, and I know he's even faced some adverse consequences from some of the things already. So, yeah, big shout out to him for holding the line there and the countless other examples of people that are really trying to I think that John Kemp has this, like, very well well repeated quote in regenerative that regenerative is ultimately about rebuilding relationships, and it's about regenerative relationships. And that means it's about people. And, yes, it's about farms. It's about crops. It's about animals, but it's ultimately also about the people.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:56
And just lots of examples of brands that are putting people first across their entire businesses, which I think lead to some of these more regenerative business and agricultural outcomes.

Kyle Krull - 00:41:14
Totally agree. I was gonna try to get into this whole thing about how, like, people is just part of life, and it's all it's just it's regeneration is about Let

Anthony Corsaro - 00:41:20
it rip, bro. Love it.

Kyle Krull - 00:41:21
No. I can't. I can't. Let's slow it down. Break us down. Get get us into the next one.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:41:27
Number 8, which I also have already just talked about as we discussed number 7, is regenerative brands pioneer new routes to market, which is really like retail is not the only route. We have this excellent work going on in direct to consumer ecommerce and food service and other sales channels. And then there's also some really cool examples of brands leveraging existing infrastructure, or creating in person experience to really connect with consumers.

Kyle Krull - 00:41:53
Yeah. You know, I really think the food service play that you've touched on a couple of times now is really, really interesting. Not that that's a super safe place to play. It's still definitely high risk. And as we discussed earlier, you know, 20% of food consumed in the United States comes from restaurants. 35 if you include fast food.

2 - 00:42:09
Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:42:09
It might not have as much impact, but one of the trends that we picked up numerous times is that brands who can start or at least play in food service earlier helps them meet some economies of scale, and that profitability from that sector can help to drive some of the growth in retail, which is a larger total addressable market. So I think that that was a personal, like, really unique learning and doing all these different podcasts, and I think it's really cool to lay that out because as somebody's coming to market with a particular brand, if you can think about how to address food service at the same time, it could give you I don't know what the right term is here. I mean, I'm struggling today with words, which is tough when you're recording a podcast. But it could really give you an advantage and some level of stability for your business stuff to fund some of that growth you need in retail, which is quite expensive.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:42:58
Yeah. People are building really nice economies of scale and and better cash flow kinda turns in that channel and then using that to help fund retail growth, which is typically much harder to achieve both of those in. So 100%. And I think there's been this really cool example set by a lot of these brands that we've interviewed that are the true pioneers in this space where they have a super open door policy with their farms, especially if they're vertically integrated or if they're direct trade where any customer, any supplier, any retailer, any distributor can come visit anytime and really see, touch, feel, smell. We've talked about this before, but, like, when you when you see a regenerative farm, when you're on a regenerative farm, there's just this visceral experience that you can't turn away from. I don't know how we replicate that to the tune of millions of consumers. We probably can't, but, you know, it's gotten to the point where we haven't had White Oak Pastures on yet, but we definitely will.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:43:46
But I'm sitting there in Indianapolis at my little nephew's basketball game, and a guy standing next to me randomly. He's got a white oak pastures hat on. And I'm like, hey, man. Just curious, like, how do you know about white oak? And he's like, oh, you know, like, I heard about them on Rogan. We buy their product. We drove to Florida for spring break, and we stopped in Bluffton on the way there. Wow. And I'm just like, man, that is really cool.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:44:07
And, like, the Alexanders, and there's many others that I think there's a key group of not only just consumers, but retailer partners that have been to these farms now. And there's something that we can't fully quantify about that human experience, but it's gonna pay dividends, and I think it's really helping us get the momentum that we have in this whole regenerative thing.

Kyle Krull - 00:44:38
I think you're you're so spot on with that, like, farm visit, loyalty. And what's so cool about regenerative agriculture is you can have that farm affiliation associated with the brand. Whereas, you know, I've been to a handful of regenerative farmers in my life, and most of them, I can't attach a brand to it. You know, they're CSAs or there's something else, and it's like, yeah. Cool. I can go support that. But if I'm visiting California, like, I can't really support that unless I'm there. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:44:59
So to be able to carry that through at a regionally or nationally available brand is so, so powerful. And we're totally off topic on this, but it's it's worth acknowledging. Like, how do we get people to to have that experience? And to me, it really is like a borderline Netflix series where people are going farm to farm. They represent brands and showing people, like, this is the level of intention intentionality, the quality, and the difference that this particular farm is making. And this is how you can continue to support in your local grocery store on a regular basis. And it meets that convenience factor for the consumer as well.

Kyle Krull - 00:45:27
And I think that could be such a powerful, long format storytelling, piece of media that can really make an impact for the entire movement if if we can figure out how to pull that off.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:46
Yeah. I think there's a huge opportunity there. So whoever knows Netflix and wants to get us a Netflix deal, please help us out. We we will happily host the show. There's there's also some really cool examples of people, I think, spreading the word mainly on LinkedIn or within the trade from a b to b perspective of, like, this is what real regenerative blank looks like. I think of a couple people specifically, like, what Paul Grieve does with showing their mobile coops moving around all the time, and then also, like, calling out fake pasture raised meat and eggs. I'm like, hell yeah, Paul. Love that. And then I think what Heather Terry and the team at Good Sam, have done around their level of transparency and some of the content they create when they visit their farms in Colombia and Kenya and other places.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:46:20
It's like, man, this is what it really looks like to do direct trade the right way in an equitable fashion. This is what regenerative agriculture and the people, the farmers, like, involved really look like. I think many others as well, but those are a couple of examples that, like, really cool content coming out of both of those folks.

Kyle Krull - 00:46:47
Yeah. I think we should call them LinkedIn legends. You know? It should be like a I wanna add Lad Wallen to that group. He's in with, like, a little potato for me. And every time I see one of his posts, I'm learning, which is so cool. Yeah. So, yeah, I appreciate everybody sharing what they do on LinkedIn. Great platform to share this stuff.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:04
Yeah. Cool. Well, take us home with this last, with this last one for for this group.

Kyle Krull - 00:47:10
Yeah. So last one, number 9, for the, how are regenerative brands winning today is regenerative brands prove that regenerative agriculture can feed the world. This is obviously so important to talk about. Mhmm. It's one of the the immediate, like, oh, no. But regenerative can't feed the world. I was like, well, maybe it can. So, AC, tell us what we've learned about that through this process.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:31
Yeah. I mean, I think we've learned that, like, we feed the world is just a lie that conventional agriculture and big business, like, props up to maintain the status quo. And we have all these examples of brands that treat achieving better on farm profitability, actually higher yields versus lower yields, more nutrition. So it's like more nutrition per calorie. There's all these things where it's like, hey. The math doesn't really check out the way that you're telling us it it checks out. And, obviously, super diverse conversation based on different crops, geographies, socioeconomic, you know, factors.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:48:01
But, you know, we have these examples where we have big scale scaled brands like a Lundberg moving major amounts of product. We have super scaled or or significantly scaled internationally sourcing rice brand like Lotus Foods. You know, we have Applegate committing to the amount of, the amount of meat that they've committed to for their hot dog portfolio by, like, 2025 or whatever it is. Like, these are not small numbers that are gonna come from, you know, certified or verifiable regenerative supply chains, and I think that's super important.

Kyle Krull - 00:48:44
Yeah. You know, I think Kettle on Fire, we we've now committed I think it was originally £1,000,000 of regenerative bones, and now it's at a 1.5 by 2026. That's good.

2 - 00:48:52
You know,

Kyle Krull - 00:48:52
so that's that's a lot of bones. We're really excited about that. So I just wanna, you know, shout out to kettle on fire. But another thing, you know and this you know, 40% of food consumed or or grown in the United States ends up being wasted anyways. Right? Like, this to your point is, like, lie that we've all been fed that, like, regenerative ag can't feed the world or has to be conventional is just another symptom of we're not really addressing the real problem here. There's so many different ways to fix the food system, from a food waste perspective, from a how food is grown perspective, from a processing perspective, from a transportation and logistics perspective. All that to say, like, Regen can absolutely feed the world and not only feed the world in terms of, like, calorie, if you were to break it down in its most like, you know, binary form, it can actually do better to feed the world by utilizing water the right way to your point on nutritional density, maybe feeding people less calories, but more nutrition. And for me, it really does still feel like the original, I don't wanna call it a silver bullet, but one of the greatest potential solutions to solve a number of different myriad of problems that are facing humanity today.

Kyle Krull - 00:49:48
So, yeah, still bullish on regen ag. Not a shocker. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:06
Shocking shocking to hear these 2 gentlemen, say these things.

Kyle Krull - 00:50:10
Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:11
Oh, yeah. Cool. Well, if people wanna unpack those even more, there's even more amazing content, that Katie helped lead the charge on putting together in the actual report, so go download it. But we will move to the key challenges, and calls to action section now, which we have 6 of those. And I think it's important to read kind of this little this little header or subtitle section for this. It still remains incredibly challenging for brands to succeed in a system that is not structured to support regenerative supply chains. In the section of the report, we call it the sticky challenges that regenerative brands face and our thoughts on how brands in the wider industry can promote creative solutions. So that's really the theme of this of these 6.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:50
Number 1, kicking us off is regenerative is not and will not be the main reason why a consumer buys a product.

2 - 00:51:01
What do you

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:01
think about that one?

Kyle Krull - 00:51:03
Yeah. You know, we cover this, I think, on just about every single episode of the podcast, I think, some agree or another. And I've referenced this talk that we both attended at Expo West numerous times, but we were sitting there and Nielsen IQ or or Nielsen was presenting some syndicated shopper data that they had. And I was like, you know, what are the drivers for purchase? And I think number 1 was price. Number 2 is taste. Number 3 is convenience. And then all the way down, number 8 on that list was it wasn't even regenerative. It was, like, altruistic benefit or something along those lines. Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:51:26
And I think this is really important to to discuss because I think maybe less so today than 2 years ago, But leading with the term regenerative is just not a winning formula. You know, what do what do consumers care about? It's like, how is this good for me? Number 1, does it taste good? Number 2 or maybe those are flip flop depending on who you're talking to. And then if there is an altruistic benefit, like, great, but that's not gonna create a ton of purchase.

Kyle Krull - 00:51:57
And we've seen this time and time again from, I mean, almost every episode we've talked about. But as a movement, we have yet to really nail that. And I think that's that's one of the biggest unlocks is, like, as a movement, if we can figure out how to convey that message properly that focusing on taste and nutrition are really, like, what regenerative brands are doing, that can help to scale this thing.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:27
Yeah. I think it's so funny to think back to those initial, like, meetings you and I had and the initial, conversations and podcast recordings we had when we both lived in Bend in 2022. And maybe this is more me than you, but, I remember thinking about this from such a activism standpoint. Like, we need to go get all the consumers to care about this and to care about all these altruistic benefits, and how are we gonna solve for that. Right? And that was, like, really how our thinking and questioning was sitting then. And we've now gone through this phase of, like, okay.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:53
That's not gonna work or that's really capped at a very small minority of consumers no matter how successful it is, which we believe is the case. And so how do we get, like, a mainstream consumer to care about this? And it's important to know that looks different for an individual brand based on their products and their return system and how they market that and what we need to do to create, like, a unified messaging or toolkit as a regenerative movement about all things that are regenerative. But, ultimately, we have to like, denial is the first phase, and then acceptance is the second one, and we need to accept that it's not gonna be the leading reason why anyone really ever buys a product outside of a very small minority, and we have to start designing a solution with that in mind. And I think the 2 real nice pieces of clarity that we've had over the last quarter or so that broke it down in a very easy to understand way to me where we and the return of boom has spent way too much time on definitions and defining things to consumers, and we need to move to marketing something to a consumer. So, like, that's one big switch we need to make.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:54:05
And the other big switch is what you already alluded to is we've spent way too much time trying to sell altruistic benefits that are really not tangible to the image of India. To the individual person, and we need to start selling self interested benefits that are very tangible to the individual person consuming the product.

Kyle Krull - 00:54:26
I think you're spot on, and I think it's worth calling out, like, maybe why there's such a friction here.

2 - 00:54:32
And when

Kyle Krull - 00:54:32
you think about a lot of these regenerative founders, they are so pumped up about regeneration internally, and that's what's driving them. And they want their consumers to want that same thing like they do, but it's just it's not there yet. So it's difficult to tell somebody, like, hey. I started this brand because of, like I'm as guilty or more than anybody.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:54:48
Right.

Kyle Krull - 00:54:49
You know? Like, oh, I sorted this brand because I wanted to sequester more water, and increase the water holding capacity on x number of acres of land. It's like, oh, but that's not gonna capture the consumer. Mhmm. You know? So I think that's one of the tensions here and why it's it's difficult for some of the founders to focus on the taste and the nutrition aspect rather than the regeneration and the power that regeneration can have for planetary health. So just worth acknowledging. It's it's an interesting, problem that we have, but I think that based on recent conversations with everybody in our consistency, our cohort, it will end up going this way.

Kyle Krull - 00:55:15
And we just gotta figure out, like, how to nail the messaging to a very broad audience.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:31
Mhmm. Amen. And it's funny you mentioned the word tension because that's a good segue into our next one, which definitely, interplays with the first one, which is regenerative product claims are contentious within the industry and confusing to consumers.

Kyle Krull - 00:55:47
And when you say regenerative product claims, like, this this can mean a couple of different things. So let's specify. Is this, like, how the product is grown from a regenerative perspective, or is it are these the claims you're making on the product after the fact?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:59
The latter. The second one.

Kyle Krull - 00:56:01
Okay. Yeah. You know, this is I think that you should speak to this one because you've done some research on, like, nutrient density, and how we can use that. So what did you learn in that process?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:13
Well, the the bigger the bigger thing is, like, we have all these competing definitions and certification programs, and that's that's very divisive within the industry. So it's part of the problem why all the hands go up for being aware of the term, and all the hands go down when you're trying to take action in the aisle. Right? And we've talked to I feel like all the leading retailers at this point, and they all say the same thing, which is, like, this thing's really hard to wrap our arms around and support in an efficient way because what's the biggest difference between regenerative and every other claim that has been meaningful? It's not binary. Every other claim is yes or no. Every other claim is black and white. You're organic or you're not. You're non GMO or you're not.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:47
You're keto friendly or you're not. You're gluten free or you're not. Regenerative is you're regenerative in this way, which maybe everyone doesn't even agree with or, you know, whatever it is because we have 6, 7 different certification programs. We have uncertified brands with legit claims. We have uncertified brands with unlegit claims. So there's a unique opportunity within the industry to unify and have some success and and better collaborate.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:57:15
And there's also this necessity for someone or a group of people to be mediators of some degree to create some harmony, within a lot of chaos and division right now. And, ultimately, what everyone needs to understand and and face up with, which is what I feel like a lot of the group you know, a lot of the crew hides from is this is harming our ability to engage the consumer. And that's at the end of the day, that is all this all all that matters if you want your program to be successful, if you want the brand to be successful, if you want the farmer to be successful, if you want the product to be successful in terms of making a regenerative claim. If we cannot properly engage the consumer, none of it matters.

Kyle Krull - 00:58:08
Extraordinarily well said. And I think it it reminds me of our movie. You know, let's find our common ground. Instead of all these disparate organizations focusing on the small things that make them different, let's focus on what are the what's the 80% that all these organizations are doing that make it, you know, a 100 times better than conventional extractive industrial ag?

2 - 00:58:31
Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:58:31
Can we find that common ground and say, okay. This is we all believe in this. That's gonna be our leading market claim or hook or whatever to get retailers and consumers on board and blow up the awareness and get people to start to buy our products to to solve the problem you answered for earlier. You know, when somebody can walk into a store, they can find a regenerative product, and they know what it means, and they know why it's better for them, and they know why it's better for the planet, and they know why it's gonna taste better. You know, if we can solve for that one thing, to me, that that's the biggest unlock for getting consumers on board, which at the end of the day will transition more arable land towards regenerative practices.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:08
Right.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:09
So can't overstate the importance of figuring that piece out.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:12
Yeah. And the the second step after what you just said very well is we have to codify in some way. Like, that that is the issue right now is, like, we have not given mainly the retailers, but these very important stakeholders that interface with the consumer. We have not given them the right tools even if we had that consensus to go engage the consumer with. Right? And so that's what we're trying to help do in some capacity, is not only reach that consensus, and get that 80%, but also codify it into some sort of process systems, resources, tangible images, tangible messaging that can be used across the board because we actually have to use those tools to engage people, to reach that understanding.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:59
Yeah. And, hopefully, we'll get there. We're we're you know, I don't wanna say making a ton of progress, but we're we're plugging away. We're I pictured, like, one of those ships that's, like, charging through ice. You know? That was the first thing that came to my mind. So we're we're in that phase right now. But we could probably spend a ton of time talking about number 2, so let's jump to number 3 Yeah. And some of the key challenges, which is regenerative brains invest in transforming supply chains without receiving proper incentives or rewards. I think this is critically important.

Kyle Krull - 01:00:20
So tell us some of the challenges or some of what we learned about this challenge during our episodes.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:34
Yeah. Basically, the people doing supporting regenerative agriculture have increased cost and complexity, and there's very little and or no reward or incentive from distributors, retailers, and consumers at the end of the day, for a lot of that work specifically. There is some premium pricing and increased margin realized, like, if it's a premium product in a category that can, you know, support that pricing, but they're not getting credit for all this extra work they're doing. If anything, they're being taxed for that work that they're doing through increased needs to prove it transparently, increased needs to be certified, increased reporting, you know, whatever fill in the blank. So, it's an issue, and it's one of those sticky challenges that, people don't wanna talk about. People love to kind of look away from and just say, hey. You know, the brand and the farmer go figure out how to bring these return products to market, and we're just gonna do status quo.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:31
And we're having some success with that, but it's probably not good enough to get us where we really need to go at the end of the day.

Kyle Krull - 01:01:45
Yeah. I very much agree. And there's a couple episodes that really stand out in my mind, and I think that this is particularly challenging for the non meat regenerative producers out there. Mhmm. And I think about Omen Farms. And I'm not trying to diminish the the level of work that they put into creating their products, but it what was striking to me about that episode, it was it was easier to start from 0 than to transition.

2 - 01:02:08
You know,

Kyle Krull - 01:02:08
if you've got an existing industrial or ag or chemical farm and you're trying to get towards regenerative practices, not only are there no incentives or rewards until you've achieved some level of regenerative certification or verification, you're in this weird interim period where you've got to change your practices, which requires more capital, more training, more technical know how. You're not gonna get paid more. Your yields are going to decrease temporarily until you achieve the actual benefit of increased soil microbial activity. And it's a very, very slippery slope, but it and it's it's just it's really hard. It's hard to get people to transition, and that's because these incentives are not structured the right way. I don't feel like I articulated that super well. Again, this is a struggle day. I don't know why. Maybe you had a bad breakfast.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:53
Hey. You're doing you're doing great, man. You know? You need to be a little bit nicer to yourself.

Kyle Krull - 01:02:58
I appreciate that. You Long story short, like, transitioning is really, really hard. And you're almost deincentivized to transition unless you have a brand or some sort of a partner who's willing to prepay the premium before you've achieved the outcome. Right. And it's really difficult.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:03:16
Yeah. And and on top of that, like, most of the brands we work with, the farm is already regenerative. So they've already gone through that transition, and now it's about can they sustain and continue those practices. And the fundamental issue for many of these enterprises that support those farms, I. E. The brands, is there's not the proper economic incentive or reward to really help them do that in a easy way. Right? They're clearly a lot of them or all of them or most of them are doing that because they wouldn't be surviving as a business.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:03:39
But it's it's not it's not fair or adequate. Right? It's maybe like I'm giving a $100 and getting 20 back, and it used to be I'm giving a $100 and getting a $100 back, in terms of, like, ROI. And we just have to continue to do the work to synthesize what those needs really are so that we can come up with some concrete ask for some of these other stakeholders and educate them why they should consider that and hopefully, like, agree to it. So that feels like the next steps that I know that we're working on in terms of some of the work that we're doing just to continue to chip away at that.

Kyle Krull - 01:04:24
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And, you know, it's it's like like you you mentioned it being a tax. You know, these brands who are doing the right thing, who are doing it harder, who are paying people a fair wage, who are creating nutrient dense products have to then pay for the certifications and verifications to prove that. Mhmm. Whereas those using high fructose corn syrup on government subsidized, you know, corn, and loaded with glyphosate, they don't have to pay for any certification. So it's cheaper to do it wrong. So to your point, like, the whole incentive and reward system is stacked against the farmers and the brands who are trying to do it the right way.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:57
Yeah. It's funny. I think it was Heather at Good Sam who I who I heard talk about this before, but, like, what if the grocery store had the opposite labeling paradigm than it does now? Like, basically, everything's about putting more stuff on the packaging, the more good you're doing instead of should we just label the shit about should we label the shit out of everyone doing all the bad stuff and all the good stuff just gets to have nice clean pretty packaging? Yeah, it's a perfect example.

Kyle Krull - 01:05:21
It is. And I I think about Apple. Right? Like, you buy an organic Apple, sometimes there's a second sticker on there when it says organic. And it's like, the organic consumer probably doesn't want 2 stickers on their apple. You know? And it's just like the irony of the system that we live in today, which is it's it's frustrating. I don't know how we get to that point, but would love to get to to Heather's world of it almost makes me think of, like, how you market cigarettes in other countries. Have you ever

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:44
seen those? Right. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:05:46
I don't think it has to be that extreme if you have seen some of those images. But that concept should be applied to the US food system for sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:54
Yeah. Well, this next one is totally your world, brother. So I want you to kick us off and and dive in deep into it, but I'll just read it for us. But our 4th key challenge and call to action was regenerative products are priced at a premium and not widely accessible. Talk to us about that.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:09
Yeah. This is a tough one. You know, as as we mentioned, there's a lot of things that make producing regenerative food really hard. Right? And it's gonna be more expensive. And generally, there's gonna be a higher average retail price on regenerative products than their conventional counterparts for a ton of the reasons we've already discussed. And that's problematic for a variety of reasons. We do not want regenerative to become, a small subset of land utilization. We're like, hey. Some of this land is gonna be regenerative and the rest is gonna be bad, and then some products are gonna be regenerative for, like, the ultra wealthy who can afford to be healthy, and then everybody else has to consume glyphosate and pesticide riddled food for the rest of their lives.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:35
So that's a huge challenge. So we've talked about why brands have to be more expensive at times. Some regenerative brands have to cost more money because the system to grow the food requires more inputs and or labor, and it's gonna be more expensive, especially because they have yet to reach economies of scale. That being said, there are a handful of brands out there who can create and bring a regenerative product to market at price parity for organic or non GMO or gluten free, or whatever other natural term you want might want to attribute to that product. But because retailers have their own pricing systems and they want branch to fall into these buckets of good, better, and best, they will automatically qualify a regenerative product that has a claim as best. So they will take a higher margin on those specific products, which make it less accessible for people to consume regenerative. Pick pick the brand. Pick the product.

Kyle Krull - 01:07:30
So that's another issue that is just sort of built into this US food system and something that we're gonna have to try to figure out how I don't wanna say break, but how we change and modify that because we want regenerative products to be accessible. We want people to not have to pay a premium, for regenerative olives or regenerative bone broth or regenerative tortilla chips. And that's something that is more of a it almost feels like an administrative or tactical issue at the retailer, and it it does feel solvable, but it's gonna have to come with education and help and partnership. And I think there not every single retailer is doing this, but there are some out there, and we gotta figure out how to solve that problem.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:21
Yeah. You're spot on, and it's like creativity and partnership is the way through through this one. And that will deliver some case studies that then we can go leverage to get more of the work done that needs to be done. But, ultimately, we're not asking retailers to not make money on these items. We're not asking them to even fundamentally move away from good, better, best, or the existing pricing architecture that is proven, makes them money, and they need to do for their business. Full stop. Like, we got it. We're with you there. But or and if you really are committed to farmer livelihoods, biodiversity, climate change, regenerative. Like, you say you are.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:47
Let's get some seats at the table for all of us to sit down and figure out, can we take less of a margin on promos? Can we take, can we create EDLP programs? You know, like, there's this whole relationship on the shelf between pricing and velocity, and all we're saying is if we just do the status quo, we're not gonna like, it's not gonna work. And so how do we just investigate creating some some non status quo solutions that can solve for, yes, delivering the margin that the brand and the retailer and the distributor needs, but increased velocities on these items so these brands can grow, these supply chains can grow, and more farmers can adopt these practices.

Kyle Krull - 01:09:38
Totally agree.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:09:42
Go ahead, bro.

Kyle Krull - 01:09:44
Yeah. So let's jump into number 5. We're almost there where there's 6 total challenges. Regenerative brands are often supply chain constrained. You, I think, have got more experience in the ac world than I do for sure. So talk about why these supply constrained farming practices. Like, why is this hard?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:04
Yeah. I mean, you're you've given a good example of this multiple times, which is candle and fire. It's like if you guys could be regenerative for every single SKU, you would, but it's not possible today because of availability and or pricing. And that and or pricing, I think, is a really important thing that often gets left out of this conversation because there are some commodities, some ingredients where there is enough return of supply, but you can never get it into the pricing structure that the brand has or that an incumbent brand could win in the marketplace with. So it's not just about availability. Right? It's also about pricing, and it's also about, farming timelines. Right?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:34
Most of these things, especially on the crop world, they happen one time a year. You might have a weather event. You might have some loss that year. You might have a crop failure. Like so it's building new supply chains is hard. Availability is is interesting and and somewhat of a gamble.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:50
Overall availability of the supply can be constraining, and then pricing of the supply can be a nonstarter for a lot of the brands trying to launch regenerative products and or have regenerative ingredients in products.

Kyle Krull - 01:11:11
Totally agree. And I think let let's bring it down to or use the example of some of the brands who are tied to very specific farms. Right? Like land. Literally, access to land can be a constraint to grow and scale your brand because if you don't have enough acreage to grow enough products to land a national, deal at Walmart, like, you can't grow. And the time it takes to get the regenerative certification or verification on product, it takes time. So to to get the rest of the supply chain and the farmers to start to implement these practices, it all takes time, effort, energy, money. So regenerative brands almost by default have to grow slower, which we haven't really discussed this yet. Actually, this is jumping to the financing piece here pretty quickly. So, this is a good segue, but that that it's a different model. It's not like I like to talk about liquid debt. Like, liquid debt's innovation.

Kyle Krull - 01:11:57
They're they're putting water in a can. They can grow very, very quickly. And I think they're doing great things. They're trying to diminish what they're doing at all. But for a brand like roots potato chips, they can't just put more regeneratively grown potatoes in a bag because regeneratively grown potatoes don't really exist, in many places, which leads to a number of different challenges. Many of that leads to, like, some financing of why that's difficult.

Kyle Krull - 01:12:27
So AC, bring us home with that challenge because I think that you are well positioned to articulate these problems.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:12:38
Yeah. Yeah. Before I do, I just wanna say one thing about the the supply that, like, we are hopeful about, which is there's a proliferation of people that care about creating more regen supply. And so just the general availability has drastically increased, and the awareness of brands, like, trying to find it has drastically increased. And I like what I'm seeing a lot of the certifiers put time and effort and and key hires into, which is they're trying to build supply chain companies on top of just certification businesses, which we need them to do because ultimately, that's how the purchasing decision at the brand's gonna be made. I'm looking for rock this. I'm looking for Regenify this. I'm looking for land to market this, and it has some specific spec where they can go help these brands put together some supply availability and and build some supply chains.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:16
So, we're looking forward to following that work and supporting it whatever way we can, but I think there's some good momentum there. Alright. Last and final challenge, as Kyle alluded to, Financing for Moderna Brands is insufficient and misaligned. This one is a is a major issue. Could very easily be number 1, or it's probably equally as important in the cycle. Right?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:46
Number 1 and was all about the consumer and how we actually sell the products. And the last one here is, like, all about how we fund the businesses, and those are pretty interchangeable chicken and egg conversations. Can't sell a product, the business shouldn't exist or can't exist. If you can't fund the business, the business can't exist. Most of the work we do is really focused on the emerging brands. So that's who we're really talking about here.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:09
Like, established brands that have regenerative supply chains or regenerative products, like, their ability to receive financing and investment is definitely very different. So we're really talking about your sub $25,000,000, even sub $10,000,000 type brands that they're building these incumbents these incumbent emerging brands and product portfolios that can scale return supply chains and provide a return of option in a category that maybe doesn't have 1 or or needs 1. And, you know, the the big issue is in the regenerative space, you have most of the money and the attention and the capital allocation going to the actual farming processes. So that's buying farmland or that's investing in sustainable agtech or that's providing loans to farmers, which is all super important. And if we don't transition to farmland practices, yeah, we're not gonna accomplish anything. And we also have to farm these enterprises that are interfacing with the consumer and providing end markets for the shit that's being grown.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:15:02
Because if it has no end market, why is someone gonna grow it, and how is someone gonna make money on the growing of it? So that's the general gist of, I think, the regen side and the main problem on the regen side. On the CPG side, like you said, growing these businesses is unique, and it's not that the existing financial instruments in terms of equity investment and debt investment don't work at all. They definitely do, and there's many brands that have been well capitalized by what I would call traditional structures and instruments. But they are not a fit for the vast majority of these businesses, and we don't have other options for them, or we definitely don't have other options that are well enough known to attorneys, accountants, and investors for us to go stand up the deals quick enough and get the money in there quick enough and not have a level of complexity that kinda makes them dead in the water. So we end up with a scenario where regenerative brands are significantly underfunded or kind of misfunded, and we need to fix that because it's a key issue.

Kyle Krull - 01:16:11
That was a lot to digest.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:16:15
You probably have brain fog because I'm just saying so much crazy shit.

Kyle Krull - 01:16:20
I I can't blame you, but it might be a contributing factor. But I think you're right. You know, in in my time working in the natural products industry, like, the VC funded 5 to 7 year turn and burn, you know, give us some money, scale your brand, get national, sell. It just simply that model doesn't work for regenerative brands like we already talked about. It's much more difficult to have your supply chain available for, like to scale from a regional brand to a national brand in in 3 to 5 years. That's that's almost impossible for a lot of these different regenerative supply chains. Number 1. Number 2, I think that a lot of these founders have a different goal than some of that, you know, 2010, 2015 CPG space where it's like, hey.

Kyle Krull - 01:16:51
I wanna get acquired and make some money. It's more about I wanna run a business that's gonna last a long time. So an eventual acquisition might not be the long term goal for a lot of these brands. You talk to a lot more of these founders than I do. Like, what what's your answer to that question? How do you think these founders are different than the previous era of, you know, call it VC Heyday, Natural Products founders?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:17:21
Well, it's just you have a different you have a different scorecard. Right? It's like the triple bottom line or the b corp kinda thing or, you know, whatever. It's just your you are a business, so you're ultimately worried about growth and the p and l and profit. Yes. They they are all worried about that. But in addition to that, they have other criteria that a lot of these other businesses don't have. And, yeah, that's a choice. No one's making them do this.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:17:37
This is a capitalistic society where that is a choice. But if we're assigning societal benefit to that, shouldn't there be some sort of reward for that is really what we're saying. And so, you know, a few a few of the things that once we get this head of capital hired onto the team and they really start running with this that I'm interested about us researching and exploring is on the debt side. The two main things that, at least an emerging vendor usually looking for is a general line of credit or inventory financing. And is there a way for us to offer reduced interest rates or a variable interest rate based on tying the the inventory, financing purchase specifically to regenerative farm. Right?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:18:13
It has sequestered this much carbon. It has helped with this much water infiltration. It's, you know, alleviated this much poverty. That should be financed at 3% versus 10% because there's all this societal benefit that we haven't realized anywhere in the accounting of just the the business overall. That's one example of something that I think we're gonna investigate and try and work on, that I think is a a path of potential success. And on the equity side, you know, I love what Elliot Biegun at Tig Brands is is really championing with some of the new instruments he's really innovated or championed.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:18:48
But the problem with typical equity investments are it places too quick and too high of a of a growth demand on the brand that takes

2 - 01:19:11
the

Anthony Corsaro - 01:19:11
money. It mandates a liquidity event, so an exit of some sort to return the the investor any capital, and it leads to binary outcomes. Right? Really fast, high growth that is successful with an exit or not, and basically the lights and the money get turned off and it's a failure. We have to find some middle path that that tool is still a good tool for some brands, but it's not the right tool for many brands. And so as I think about what we wanna learn and provide research and maybe eventually provide a solution on in the equity side is, how do we make investments with more alignment between the investor and the investee, shorter time horizons, clear objectives as to what the business is gonna achieve in those shorter time horizons, more liquidity, and not having to have that big liquidity event at the end that's many years down the road to to basically be Boomer bus binary success or failure. So easy to throw those thematics out. We definitely don't have, I think, the the perfect tool or tools yet to to go bring a solution forward there, but, it's like that whole quote about when you're when you're chopping down the tree, spend 90% of the time sharpen the axe and 10% of the time actually chopping down the tree. Like, we need to spend 90% of the time really deeply studying this iceberg of the problem, which is the way these brands have been financed historically, to create something to do it different in the future.

Kyle Krull - 01:20:44
Super well said. I know I've heard you talk about this so many times, and I feel like each time I do, I still learn something new. So I really appreciate your perspective and and ability to kind of articulate the problem so well and the potential solutions and to acknowledge, like, why this is hard, and what it's gonna take to get us where we need to be. And to your point, like, if we can't figure out the financing part, like, it makes it that much harder despite all the other challenges we've already discussed. It's that much harder to be a regenerative brand. And these are the people who are working extraordinarily hard to try to do the right thing for the societal benefit you alluded to earlier, getting no credit for that work. So, yeah, we got really gotta figure out how to fix this.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:21:26
Amen. I mean and we could say that about all all of them. I mean, it's like this this there's so much hope in regeneration, and we gotta solve some of these really nitty gritty hard problems of how we make the economics work and how we make these businesses work better, because they're working on our behalf for our nutrition and the health of the planet and these other things. We need to make the economic system work a little bit better on their behalf to reward them for some of that those efforts.

Kyle Krull - 01:21:56
No doubt.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:21:59
Super fun episode, man. Anything else to add? I got some CTAs on on the report, but anything else on content or anything else?

Kyle Krull - 01:22:06
I think we're good, man. There I was gonna go to I was gonna try to go down on an accounting rabbit hole, but today's not the day. It's not it's not the day for me. We gotta do that some other time.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:22:15
Yeah. We we will. But, yeah, just a big big thank you to everyone who listens to the podcast in general, follows us on, you know, our newsletter, follows us on LinkedIn. Like, we couldn't get to this this point of producing this report if people didn't care at all about this content, and clearly there's enough people that care that make us continue to produce it. And this was really like a seminal aggregation of a lot of efforts to date. So huge shout out again to Katie and JellyShot and Christina, and everyone that helped to kinda put it together along the way. But, we would super appreciate y'all checking out the report. We'll have a link to download it in the show notes.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:22:49
There's an automated survey that you'll get to provide feedback on that report. Please do tell us what you think. What did you love? What did you hate? What can we do better next time? What else do you wanna learn about? And then also share it. I mean, share it on LinkedIn, share it with people directly.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:23:01
Like, we want as many retailers, brands, CPG service providers, investors, you know, people in the industry, farmers, processors, like anyone who cares about creating more demand for regenerative through CPG, we want them to read this report, and let us know if it's helpful, how it's helpful, and how we can continue to serve them in in the effort, to, you know, fulfill that goal. So, yeah, I just appreciate all the support, and everyone check out the report and let us know what you think.

Kyle Krull - 01:23:39
Yeah. And if you don't look at the show notes, you can access the report at regen-brands.com, and it's really simple to find. Go to resources, click on the report, enter some some nominal information, Social Security number, address. Yeah. But you got access to the report, so check it out.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:24:00
Thanks, everybody. Appreciate you, brother. Thanks, man.

Kyle Krull - 01:24:03
Thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:24:07
For transcripts, show notes, and more information on this episode, check out our website regen-brands.com. That is regen-brands.com. You can also check out our YouTube channel, ReGen Brands, for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a 5 star rating on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe to future episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. You can also subscribe to our newsletter, the ReGen Brands Weekly, and follow our ReGen Brands LinkedIn page to stay in the know of all the latest news, insights, and perspectives from the world of regenerative CPG. Thanks so much for tuning in to the ReGen Brands Podcast. We hope you learned something new in this episode, and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, your talent, and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system. Love you guys.