#118 - R.I.P. ReGen Brands - The Journey, The Shutdown, & The Future

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #118 - R.I.P. ReGen Brands - The Journey, The Shutdown, & The Future - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:13

Welcome to the Regen Brands podcast, a place for brands, retailers, investors, and other food system stakeholders to learn about the consumer brand supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world.I'm your host, AC. Thanks for tuning in. Now let's get into today's conversation.The first ever in person episode of the Regen Brands podcast is also the last episode ever of the Regen Brands podcast.

Kyle Krull - 00:00:45

Which is a shame because it took us a long time to figure out how to do this just now.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:50

It actually took us since June 2022 to figure out how to do this, and then it also took us about an hour to figure out how to do it today.Yeah. So equally long timelines with, you know, different perspectives.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:03

It's also weird to look at you in the face while talking to you on this podcast. You know, I'm I'm so used to looking at the screen

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:09

I know.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:09

Which doesn't make any sense now.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:11

I can't decide if I wanna look at the the iPhone that's recording us, the MacBook that's keeping the audio. Look at you. Look over here.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:18

It's so different.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:19

We're also in my house. So, like, it's very disorienting to do this activity just in my living room.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:25

My first time at AC's house.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:27

Welcome.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:27

It's a big step. We made hot beverages beforehand. We had some ceremonial cacao.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:32

Yes. Perfect perfect way, perfect beverage to wrap up this podcast journey together.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:39

Agreed. Agreed.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:40

I I would give it a a solid eight out of ten.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:43

It was good.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:44

I would give it an eight out of 10.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:45

Yeah. Yeah. We we can talk about the recipe. I don't know how much detail you wanna get in.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:50

Share share the recipe, brother.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:51

Alright.So it's a company called Core Cow, and I I don't know for sure if they're regenerative or not, but they are one of the more intentional cacao brands out there without a doubt.Yeah. But I can't make that claim. I've yet to find a 100% pure raw cacao that is regenerative. So if anybody is aware of that brand, let me know.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:08

Let us know.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:09

We'd be happy to make the purchase.So you about 30 grams of cacao, four shakes turmeric, four shakes pumpkin spice, four shakes cayenne, followed by a pinch of salt, and three shakes cardamom if you got it, about 60 grams hot water.I typically do a 180 degrees. Very specific.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:26

Sky's down there.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:28

Do the smallest dash of vanilla you you possibly can, followed by roughly 10 grams of pure maple syrup.Give that a little shake up, you know, with your your hand what's that called?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:40

The hand frother. Milk frother. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:42

Hand frother. Then you need to have an actual separate milk frother. Get about eight ounces of milk. Throw that in there, and you are ready to rock.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:49

It was very good. It was very good.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:51

It's tasty. AC braved the cayenne.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:53

Yeah. Not a big not a big spice guy.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:55

Okay. More of a sweet guy. Classic, you know, Midwest.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:59

I mean, I'm just I got a sweet tooth. What can I say?

Kyle Krull - 00:03:02

You gotta do what you gotta do. You know? I'm a sweet spicy. I like the combo.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:05

Yes. It it it grew on me as the drink, as the beverage kind of went on.I would say I was impressed by, how even it actually was mixed together. Yeah.I was not expecting it to be as well done there, but you were, like, whisking it while you're pouring it in.

There was special

Kyle Krull - 00:03:20

It's not

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:21

operations of steps. So it was solid.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:24

Shout out to my wife, Heather, for having all of the equipment needed to pull this off, at our house, and shout out to AC and Summer for having all the equipment to pull it off here too.I mean, we had everything we needed.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:34

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:34

So

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:35

It only took since June 2022 for me to wreck my adrenal system enough to join you on the no caffeine train.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:42

Yes.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:43

So we will also celebrate that.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:44

Well, and

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:45

it makes sense,

Kyle Krull - 00:03:45

you know, if we're if we're regen bros, now we're theobromine bros.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:49

Right. Theobromine levels are just absolutely up into the right right now.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:53

Through the roof. Yeah. All time high.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:56

Alright. Well, what do we wanna talk about today, brother? What can the audience expect from this conversation?

Kyle Krull - 00:04:01

Yeah, man. Well, you know, in classic RegenBrains podcast, format, AC has done 99% of the work and put together a rough agenda for us, and we're not following anything.Right. Right. Intentionality is there, and we're just gonna go rogue and do whatever we wanna do. So Yeah.I think, really, you hit the nail on the head in our in our brief prerecord conversation, which is like, let's talk about how this started, why it started, and how it went

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:29

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:04:30

The challenges that we faced and why, you know, we we made the decision to shut it down and know the kind of the future outlook for the regenerative movement.So I think, that's that's really the three things we wanna cover today, and I'm sure we'll go rogue Yeah. And see what happens.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:43

Yeah. We love Shout

Kyle Krull - 00:04:44

out to my Nissan Rogue rental car while I'm here in SoCal.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:47

Very, we're very rogue oriented right now.

Kyle Krull - 00:04:49

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:50

But, we love a a past, present, future, outline. Yeah. Seems very fitting.

Kyle Krull - 00:04:56

It's a it's a good three three three.Like, we we always go for the three three three

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:59

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:04:59

You know, split. So Yeah. Let's kick it off, man. This was your idea, you know, way back when.I still remember vividly, sitting down with you at Kavisa over a small bowl of regenerative bison. Yeah. So, yeah, let's let's talk about that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:05:18

Yeah. June 2022. We've told the story multiple times in different ways. You and I are both living in Bend. We've had one previous conversation.I think we're both yearning to do something more in the space, but didn't know exactly what that might look like. Yeah.I wish I could say, like, what where podcast came from. I I don't know if podcasts are all the rage, so maybe I'm just a good follower of trends.But, man, kudos to us for the foresight because, I mean, think about where the space was at then and where it's at now and what a difference.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:05:55

Would that be three and a half years?

Kyle Krull - 00:05:58

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:05:58

Four years? What is that?

Kyle Krull - 00:05:59

About about three and a half Yeah. From from probably, like, when we stopped the last episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:03

I mean, the amount of brands that are supporting the work, the amount of certified products and products with claims, it's gotta be 10 x, 50 x

Kyle Krull - 00:06:15

For sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:15

Something crazy like that.

Kyle Krull - 00:06:16

Yeah. We were definitely, kind of right in the sweet spot of I mean, we're still not in, like, the mass appeal Yeah.Stage, but we're, like, early adopter right before the boom. You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:26

We saw the train coming down the tracks, though.

Kyle Krull - 00:06:28

Without a doubt.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:29

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:06:29

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:30

Yeah. And yeah, man. Just a lot of gratitude.Like, I think back to those early episodes and not how poorly they were done, but just, like, how we were finding our way and really didn't know what we were doing.

Kyle Krull - 00:06:44

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:45

And, you know, especially shout out to those those, like, initial first, like, ten, fifteen, 20 guests. We definitely were, like, finding our rhythm and figuring out our format.And I think our ability to produce compelling content has certainly gone up into the right as has, like, the the growth of Regen in the industry.So there's been a lot of growth and a lot of wins there.And this will be episode number one nineteen, but, technically, episode one twenty since we started with an episode zero. And, I mean, dude, a 120 episodes. Like, that's Huge.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:23

Wow. Like, that's that's a lot of time. That's a lot of effort. It's a lot of energy.That's a lot of really cool information that we've been able to share, that has hopefully had an impact. So I just think that's that's pretty sweet.

Kyle Krull - 00:07:36

I I agree wholeheartedly with everything you shared, and I wanna hearken back to some of the kudos to us that that phrase you used.You know, AC and I really did not know each other well when we started the thing. It was kinda like, you know, I I barely know the student.We're about to go record conversations.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:52

Kyle's like, this guy is fucking crazy.

Kyle Krull - 00:07:54

Absolutely. Had that thought. Without a doubt.But I think what I was most impressed I mean, there's so many things I've been impressed by about you and the work in here, but what what I think I enjoyed most was the camaraderie.Yeah.And we had so much fun having the conversations, and I think we've done a really good job of making a relatively complex nuanced topic, hopefully, fun and enjoyable for people to listen to with a good combination of broing down slash humility slash really trying to extract the key components of the movement and highlight the incredible work everybody's doing.

Kyle Krull - 00:08:29

Yeah. And, you know, like, my grandmother listens to the podcast Yeah. And she was pissed with she's like, why aren't you recording the podcast anymore?That was, like, one of my staples when I was on the elliptical, you know, or so Yeah.To know that people actually and of course, it's it's my grandmother who listens to the podcast, and and others for sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:08:47

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:08:48

But to know that people cared enough to listen or got enough value in it or entertainment in it to to do it, you know, that that's not something you can really Mhmm.I mean, you can always get better at it, but there's a level of camaraderie and personality gelling that made that possible.So I just really appreciate the, fortuitousness that, you know, we have a dynamic that seemed to work right off the rip.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:09

Yeah. Yeah. I'm super grateful for that.And we obviously never we didn't agree on every single thing, but I would say, like, the alignment across the board has been really phenomenal, and easy.And it's it's been a labor of love since the start, but, you know, you grease those tracks when you really see, like, eye to eye with the person you're doing it with.So super grateful for that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:30

And, I think you and I were always really aligned from the beginning that we wanted to create a really soft landing spot both for the guests we're having on and for the audience.And when it's a part time thing and you're doing it virtually, I I think you're somewhat limited in how well you can do that.But I feel like we we met that ceiling.And, you know, hopefully, the the the metrics that we have in terms of, like, the guest feedback we've received and some of the audience feedback we've received, reinforces that because what we didn't wanna do was have more boring conversations about soil health.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:10:07

There was enough Yeah. Other people doing that. We wanted to create a unique kind of proprietary space to talk about brands and CPG in this context.We wanted to make it fun. We wanna make it informative, and we wanted to make it so that, people really got something out of it and also enjoyed it.And I I feel like we we succeeded pretty strongly there.

Kyle Krull - 00:10:27

I totally agree.And you mentioned alignment, and I think we're both from the get go so aligned on on kind of the mission for the podcast, which was like, how do we just get more people to understand what this is and why it's important?And that was a really simple north star that was so important to both of us, and that made it really easy to like you mentioned, you know, we didn't agree 100% all the time, but it was, like, pretty damn close.Yeah. And that was a real true, like, guiding light that made it so simple for us to pull this work off.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:10:54

Yeah.It's gonna be challenging for me to brag on us, but I think we're doing ourselves a disservice by not doing it because the people that listen to the show and have supported our work, like, they were a part of that success.So I do wanna try and drop some metrics in and, like, two big ones stand out to me.The 100 and the beyond the 120 episodes now, like, we are close to or have eclipse a 100,000 plays, which

Kyle Krull - 00:11:20

No shit.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:21

Doesn't sound like a lot, but, like, that's a lot. Yeah. Wow. And I think that's pretty cool.And, you know, if you look at all of the impressions that we've had across pod newsletter, LinkedIn, etcetera, we have definitely averaged over a million impressions a year, like, throughout the body of of work.And, like, wow. Like, a million impressions.Like, and today's social media, viral landscape, maybe that number's gone down a little bit in in significance and consequence, but, like, it's still fucking a million and precious.

Kyle Krull - 00:11:53

7 figure club. You know? That's certainly, not an easy feat, especially when you're talking about something that's nuanced, complex, and under the radar as regenerative agriculture and CPG. Yeah.You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:04

Yeah. 100%.

Kyle Krull - 00:12:05

Yeah. Well, naturally, it was it was for you to brag on us.

So thank you for taking that one because I would suck at doing

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:11

that. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:12:12

I'm

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:12

I'm I've been a little bit better at that than than you have. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Kyle Krull - 00:12:16

For sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:17

We have our roles to play. What any any, like, favorite stories or favorite memories that come to mind specifically for the pod?

Kyle Krull - 00:12:27

Of course. Oh my gosh. I'm blanking on that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:31

Trying to think of stuff we haven't maybe shared, like, in a previous episode where we've kinda had a similar conversation. Yeah.

And so trying

Kyle Krull - 00:12:37

to come up with something new on the spot right now is difficult. I'm trying going I'm, like, default going back to the tried and true ones that Yeah.I've really stuck in my brain. Yeah. You know, a child climbing to the third story, the getting the giggle fits with Francisco. Yep. Yep. Those those kind of moments.But I think and we've talked about this before on some other episodes, in particular, after Expo West in previous years.Hearing from people who we don't have personal relationships with

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:05

Yes.

Kyle Krull - 00:13:06

Who approaches and and say, like, hey. Like, I listen to podcast. I get so much value out of it.Like, that is so incredibly rewarding and humbling, like, and it kinda, like, awestruck.Like, this person I don't even know knows who I am and listens to what we have to say about this, and that's just so powerful and cool.And I'm so appreciative, and grateful that people get, again, value out of what we shared so far.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:29

Yeah. Yeah. You you you took mine. I was gonna kind of pivot there. I that's been the coolest part. Like Yeah.The random strangers commenting on LinkedIn or coming up to you at a conference or sending you an email.And I'll just say for people out there, like, we're not we're not Rogan.We're not some giant podcast, where you can just look at the numbers and feel really good about yourself.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:55

I I mean, I'm proud of our numbers, but where I'm going is those little interactions, like, when you're a part of an audience or you're a supporter and you just take five seconds to send a text to make a LinkedIn comment, you take a couple minutes to write an email, like, it really is the the currency that the people doing the work are filling their tank with.

Kyle Krull - 00:14:15

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:14:16

Because usually, it's not the the greatest economic opportunity. And, you know, just yeah.If you can, please do that for other people that are similar, like creators that are trying to bring things like that into the world.I think it means the world to to people like like us that are doing stuff like that.So, yeah, just super grateful for all the people that lended us their time and talent both as guests and also as audience members and shared shared it, commented, liked, reviewed, all those all those things.

Kyle Krull - 00:14:47

Yeah. I mean and at the same time, before talking to the listener, you know, AC really pulled me into this.I had, like, natural aversions to jumping on a mic and publishing my thoughts, which I'm sure everybody's surprised to hear. I'm sure I've said it before.But what I wanna get to is, you know, I think the reason we've been successful is because we acknowledge where our skill set is and isn't. Yeah.And we have been very authentic and transparent in that. Yeah. And we have a unique point of view because of where we come from.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:15:20

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:15:20

And what I'm trying to get to is if you, the listener, have a unique perspective or viewpoint or opinion about something and you have thought about doing something like this, like, by all means, do it.Mhmm. It's been so rewarding, and it was such a big departure coming outside of my comfort zone who is somebody who's, like, not even on social media Mhmm.To do something so publicly facing that's reliant on people, you know, listening to this. Yeah.So, yeah, just wanna encourage anybody who's, like, maybe curious about starting a podcast, like, please do it. It's so cool, and it's so rewarding.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:15:55

Yeah.I think one of the goals that I wouldn't have been able to articulate at the beginning, but definitely was there, but now I can articulate it better now is, like, what I wanted us to develop through this platform was genuine authenticity and humility and, like, a genuine endearing curiosity that we approach the subject matter with.

Kyle Krull - 00:16:15

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:16:16

And I really think we did that really well. And I don't know. I just think that's that's, like, super cool to me. And, I've learned so much just individually.Yeah. And I think I've always felt we've always felt a responsibility to make sure those learnings are clear and publicly available.And I think we've done a really nice job. Like, this all this information is fully accessible. There's no paywalls. There's no secret memberships. There's no none of that stuff.And pretty much every media platform I'm familiar with is doing all that now. So maybe our p and l, didn't think that was the best decision.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:16:58

Who knows when we get deeper into the autopsy of of the dead bodies, but, I'm proud that we made it as accessible as we did.

Kyle Krull - 00:17:05

I I feel the same way. And I agree, like, the learning out loud format. You know?I'm I'm so grateful for everybody who came on as a guest and was able willing to share some relatively, you know, what's the word I'm looking for?You know, not top secret,

but some sense

Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:22

Competitive competitive information.

Kyle Krull - 00:17:23

And competitive information, sensitive information, kind of like a deep dive in the into the business and the challenges, and it was so cool to be able to learn from that in a public format.Mhmm. You know, that's it feels really rare.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:35

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:17:36

Something I'm super grateful for, and it certainly sharpened my toolkit, my pencils, my my skill set, not just in, like, the regenerative CPG world, but just CPG in general.Mhmm. You know? And I think that there's value in this podcast, not just for people who are focused on regenerative, though that is the core mission. Yeah.But for anybody looking to enter the CPG space, I think that there's a lot of learnings for small startups, in the content that we've created.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:17:59

Yeah.And, you know, in in the continued theme of giving ourselves compliments, one thing I am also proud of that we've done is we've not tried to frame this as a silver bullet.We are very convicted that CBG brands creating demand for regenerative ingredients will lead to the safeguarding of acreage and the transition of acreage.And we have acknowledged the deeply nuanced challenges of doing that and also the fact that there are other mechanisms that need to be funded, talked about, prioritized.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:34

Other than that, that also create that acreage change.And I think I think that says a lot because it'd be really easy just to be like the big CBG cheerleaders and not maybe acknowledge that nuance and acknowledge, like, the other continuum of potential opportunities.

Kyle Krull - 00:18:52

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:53

But I feel like we've done a nice job, there. We definitely probably started more on the cheerleader side.And as we've learned more, maybe we've gotten a little more pragmatic.

Kyle Krull - 00:19:02

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:03

But we we've I think we've learned how to balance that optimism and that pragmatism in a really nice way.

Kyle Krull - 00:19:09

Yeah. You used the word balance, and you used the word big CPG cheerleaders.And I think we've also done a really good job of acknowledging the small startups who maybe haven't even hit retail shelves yet and some of the efforts that big CPG is doing because, you know, it's really gonna take effort across the board, full spectrum, if we're really gonna try to make the change we wanna see.

Kyle Krull - 00:19:28

Right. I do wanna pivot from here, though, because, obviously, I'm uncomfortable. This is way too much time talking about good things that we've done.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:35

Classic Kyle.

Kyle Krull - 00:19:36

Really. Shocking.And I think and unless there's anything else you wanna make sure that we highlight, I think on the the original intention, some of the highlights, I think that we've done a good job kinda recapping some of that.And I'd like to pivot to the why have we shut this down and kinda have that hard conversation.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:53

Yeah. Let me think if there's anything else I wanna share on the highlights or the wins.I mean, other highlights I would just share is, like, we created two legit new legal entities that were nonprofit corporations that were set up correctly, that were compliant, that were properly funded and launched successfully.We did create the first trade association for Regeneron Brands with 31 inaugural members with a full year of programming, that I think did advance those for profit businesses in a meaningful way.And, yeah, there there's more than that, but I think those just need to be said and acknowledged because, like, they're not insignificant.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:29

They now will no longer exist in whatever form they were created in, but, still significant. Yeah. Let's go to forensic analysis.And I'm trying to think of the best order of operations on this one.

Kyle Krull - 00:20:45

I don't have a good idea that immediately comes to mind.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:48

Yeah. And most of this is gonna be me needing to answer it.So I'm also trying to think of, like, do you prompt me and I answer is the right,

cadence or what

Kyle Krull - 00:20:59

Well, let's what

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:00

we do.

Kyle Krull - 00:21:00

Let's I'll let's try it. Let's try that. So, you know, we had had numerous conversations about, in particular, like, Regen Brands year two.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:09

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:21:09

You know? And, so maybe maybe part of this conversation is talking about what succeeded and where we were we weren't as successful as we wanted to be Mhmm.In what we delivered for RegenBrands year one. Mhmm.

And that can kinda guide us into why not year two and how that influenced some of the decisions decisions that

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:28

we made. Yeah.Let's start with the coalition because that was, like, the first domino that really, I think, got us

Kyle Krull - 00:21:34

where we

Anthony Corsaro - 00:21:35

are today. Yeah. So recapping that, that was the first trade association for Regenerative Brands. We had 31 inaugural members.We did a full year of that membership as we proposed.We we honestly probably did thirteen or fourteen months just because of the way that some things kinda sorted out there.But the business model there was it's a five zero one c six nonprofit, which allows for profit businesses to pay us a membership fee for actual tangible for profit business value.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:22:07

My biggest takeaway from the entire failure is we just try to do way too fucking much, way too fast without a lot of resources.I led the fundamental incorrect assumption that if we publicized it and and kind of galvanized and rallied enough support for it that the resources and the labor and the capital and everything would kinda fall into place.That just didn't happen. So I think that was the big mistake in the macro.With the coalition specifically, I think we did meaningfully move that work forward in a really cool way, and we had a mixed bag of membership feedback and ROI from that first year of membership.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:22:47

But I think the challenge was we kind of created, the wrong the wrong membership model out the gate. Yeah.We we we pitched and built a plan around really a meeting and collaborative heavy theory of change where the brands were gonna get on these monthly calls.They were gonna talk about, you know, collaborative problems and design collaborative solutions.And I think what we found out very quickly was they didn't have the bandwidth to do that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:23:14

They all had so much going on in their individual businesses that they couldn't step away and work on the collective.

Kyle Krull - 00:23:20

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:23:20

And what we should have done is really, like, safeguarded their time and just asked for the money for us to develop a a staff to, like, go do that work and us to really take more of a leadership role, to kind of dictate what that strategy was.Yeah. And we eventually got there as we went into year two and we revised the strategy, and it was gonna look very much more like that.And we had enough members and enough revenue to kinda keep it going, but not at a standpoint where it really would have delivered the results that our members wanted, and it could have delivered a a living wage for me.So we had to walk away from it.

Kyle Krull - 00:23:53

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:23:55

So maybe I'll pause there because that was a lot. But, you know, there there's probably a couple threads we can pull on just coalition specific there.

Kyle Krull - 00:24:02

For sure, man. And I think, you know, I I a couple different words stuck out to me.And I think at one time you used the word failure, which to me is not the right word.And this is just reframing, and I know that's not how you feel and what you mean. But I think it's important to say, you know, we tested the hypothesis.Mhmm. And I think it was the right hypothesis. Yeah. And we didn't get the desired result, and that's okay. Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:24:24

It's such a complex thing to try to figure out, and there are so many factors, you know, I call them headwinds and tailwinds that made it an increasingly difficult environment to succeed with that model.Mhmm.You know, retailers are continuing to be more and more extractive and looking for more margin points on a regular basis and to try to monetize this group of start up CPG brands, many of whom aren't profitable and relying on investments, are strapped for time, energy, effort, manpower, and to rely on them for both financial, you know, support to run the organization and manpower support to execute some of the programmatic stuff we're trying to execute

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:05

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:25:06

Just turned out not to be the winning equation. Yeah. You know? And, alternatively, like, there isn't really a lot of other options out there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:12

Right.

Kyle Krull - 00:25:13

You know? It it's either like, hey. Give us more money. We'll staff the whole thing, but they don't have the deep pockets to do to do that either.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:19

Right.

Kyle Krull - 00:25:19

You know? So I think we we really tried to develop this system the best way we thought we could. Mhmm.And I don't know how we it it the other viable models in my head, quote, viable models, I don't think would have been viable either. You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:35

Yeah. I I do think we just, like, ran into a resource shortage issue that I don't know if we could have foresaw.Like like you said, we had to just make the hypothesis and get there and then see, oh, like, the resources don't exist or they can't be, they can't be given to these tasks because they're just there's other higher priority internal brand tasks that they need to be assigned to.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:58

I also think, like, fundamentally, we made a pretty critical mistake in relying on goodwill of our vision. Our vision was, hey.You all, certifiers and brands, have decided that this is gonna be a hypercompetitive thing where we're gonna make rock, regenified, land to market, a greener world, SCI, etcetera, very different from each other.We're gonna compete on on pack claims, and we're gonna all compete and jockey with the retailers for shelf space and recognition and prioritization.And that has distilled down into kind of how the brands think about their claims. And, like, look. I'm all for people run for profit businesses.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:39

They need to clearly identify how they're differentiated from their competition.Our theory of change was just that we needed to do something at the top level in the halo of regenerative that created some sort of more consumer unification of of understanding and some sort of, like, better operated marketing mechanism.

Kyle Krull - 00:26:58

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:59

And we should have went and got Whole Foods or Whole Foods and Sprouts or the entire natural channel. Like, we should have led with the demand side.We should have got the retailers on board and basically shoehorned the brands in because, like, we wore the, the the third party entity you had to work, with if we're gonna do a regen month at Whole Foods.Mhmm. But instead, we, like, led with brands because we had momentum there. We had buy in there.We had people that really believed in the vision there, and they were gonna create something and bring it to the retailers when I think we should have really flipped that

Kyle Krull - 00:27:31

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:27:31

Because we relied really too much on goodwill and not enough on, like, the hard commercial ROI.And it's just really hard as a founder also to when you when you see so many problems that can be fixed, strategy is the art of saying no.We didn't say no to enough things.Like, we thought we could we thought we could at least articulate that we were gonna solve all the problems and then, like, prioritize and march forward from there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:27:58

But the problem is when you articulate that you're gonna solve for all the problems, you don't set the right expectations internally or externally.So once again, I feel like we led with too much goodwill and not, like, anchor retailer demand forcing function.And, also, we just, like, didn't we didn't know well enough to really sharpen the pencil on strategy.And and we did a nice job going into year two, but it still just wasn't enough based on the timing and everything else to, like, rally the troops and rally the the money.

Kyle Krull - 00:28:27

Totally, man. And I think you bring up a really interesting point that it was brand collaboratively led.You know, the brands really had an appetite to want to work together, and the retailers really seem to still be I don't wanna use the word floundering, but trying to figure out how to do this the right way.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:41

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:28:41

And I don't know if the hesitation is they're worried about ruffling feathers with, you know, organization a or organization b Yeah.Or it's more about, we don't know how to do this because the messaging is really complicated to consumers. Mhmm. They're waiting on additional nutrient density data.I don't know exactly what all the barriers are, but I will say that it was somewhat disappointing that we never really got retail attraction and buy in despite numerous conversations with numerous retailers, and there's a lot of hesitancy to move forward there.

Kyle Krull - 00:29:09

And I also think it's kind of this circular problem that, like, well, region's really not driving that much incrementality. Like, certain brands are succeeding, certain brands aren't.But part of that is because there's a lack of consumer education, and they're not willing to invest in the consumer education because it's not the proven point that the data is there that's gonna drive incremental revenue.So it's a circular problem.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:28

Right.

Kyle Krull - 00:29:28

And at some point in time, I would love for a retailer to step up and say, hey. We're gonna try to solve for this education piece

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:34

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:29:35

So we can prove out whether or not Regen can drive incrementality.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:39

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:29:39

Because at this stage in the game, like, we still don't really know.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:42

Right.

Kyle Krull - 00:29:42

You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:43

Yeah. And we are spending look. Retailers need to protect themselves from liabilities.They need to have robust standards and protocols, but we still have not graduated, I think, in the retail set from the standards conversation to the marketing conversation. Totally.And we also need to understand that those fundamentally are kind of pitted against each other, especially in regenerative.If you're gonna have a very diverse array of, you know, various pathways into one regenerative standard, which I think is the right thing, and I think Whole Foods has been an awesome leader there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:15

But that's directly at odds with how you market to people, which needs to be simple and needs to be kind of single pathway.

Kyle Krull - 00:30:20

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:20

So we we saw that trend and saw that some some sort of, like, intermediary third party needed to be built that could help construct whatever that bridge is between those two lanes.

Kyle Krull - 00:30:31

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:32

We just maybe didn't set it up right or didn't the the the ships didn't fall correctly or whatever to make it happen in the timeline, and with the resources that we really needed to make it happen in.

Kyle Krull - 00:30:43

Yeah. Yeah. It's a fair point. I'm trying to think.So that's kinda like a really good year one recap, what we tried to execute, how it was too much, why funding is hard, why brands had a difficult time allocating the time, energy, effort, and resources needed to really pull off the programming.Yeah. Is there anything else we wanna cover before we transition to kinda year two in the decision to No. Say that to, you know, call it?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:31:09

We can we can go there. I would just say, like, huge shout out to the 31 brands that supported us.

Kyle Krull - 00:31:14

Huge shout out to the 31 brands.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:31:16

Forever grateful for all those folks. Obviously, the the capital, the the cost of the membership was huge, and then also various team members really leaning in and participating.Ultimately, it wasn't enough for us to figure it out, and we didn't figure it out together.But there was still so much time, and talent, I would say, contributed to the effort. So just thank you to all those folks.You know, year two, I think it was actually really clear what needed to be improved, and we did a nice job of, like, improving it.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:31:46

I wanna give a huge shout out to our partners at JellyShot, Pablo, Saida, and team. Mhmm.We went through a very, very rigorous and time consuming but extremely productive strategy revamp going into year two, which was really necessary.And I articulated our year one strategy as regenerative brands have common problems, and we're gonna create their common solutions, which, yeah, that's true, but it's super vague and it's super high level.

Kyle Krull - 00:32:14

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:14

And going into year two, we had a theory of change. We had, you know, nine strategic objectives with, like, key measurements and key tactics.And back to that, like, strategy is the art of saying no.Like, we were we were dialed, but it it wasn't necessarily too little too late because it wasn't too little. I think it was just kind of too late.

Kyle Krull - 00:32:34

Well, I'll pause you there because I think it was too late, and I think the scope of the nine objectives, it was very clear that we were gonna need additional resources.Yes. And figuring out how to get those resources in a way that made sense for the brands being involved

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:47

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:32:47

Just that didn't pencil out.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:32:48

Exactly.Like, every brand was basically saying, you know, I can give you blank, and I would love it to be more, but there's no way I can justify it just because of my own p and l even though I totally see the vision, like, totally think there's ROI there.So I think that was that was really challenging. And look. You know, one thing we haven't talked about is, the world's a little fucking chaotic right now.

Kyle Krull - 00:33:11

The Which by the way, it is what what days is it today?It's Monday, March 2, right before Expo West, just to give somebody some timeline on the chaos that is today.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:33:21

Yeah. 03/02/2026. And, you know, I would say the coalition really fell in 2025.So, you know, we've been in a really tough macroeconomic and sociopolitical climate since probably the beginning to the middle of last year. Mhmm.And that that totally affected, I think, where some of these businesses were at and some of these individuals were at in terms of, the clarity that they had running their own operation, their ability to lean in and contribute time and talent and capital.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:33:55

So it's not an excuse, but it is just a very real variable that I think played a role.

Kyle Krull - 00:34:00

Absolutely, man. And, you know, I've got a a good friend of mine, who's a grant writer.And not specifically in the regenerative space, but some of the grants that you write do fall into the regenerative space.And there was money and funding and projects that everybody had anticipated were gonna come to fruition come, you know, this new administration taking over that just fell through.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:34:17

Yep.

Kyle Krull - 00:34:18

Now see the the macro environment, to your point, has only become more challenging for the most part across the board. And it wasn't the right time to say, hey.Mhmm. Give us more money than you did last year. You know? So it's just just worth pointing that out.And, yeah, it it definitely feels like a wild time to be alive.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:34:33

Yeah. I'm trying to think what else on the coalition side.I would just maybe wrap that chapter with, like, I still think there needs to be a trade association for regenerative brands.I still think that it's gonna come down to a mafia type meeting.I've said this on the podcast before where, like, the heads of these certifiers and their key brand partners need to get together and decide, like, we're gonna we're gonna work together, as as the five families instead of the individual five families.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:35:07

I'm not hopeful that that will actually become a reality, which I think is another big contributing factor to the limiting the limitedness of of the work.But, you know, we we got to clarity of vision on we need an entity that can collectivize power and then actionize that collective power.And I still think there's a huge opportunity for that. And hopefully, at the very minimum at the very least, it can be realized on the individual certification level. Mhmm.But I still don't know if that's gonna get us where we wanna go, in terms of trying to find that ceiling of market demand for products with regenerative claims.

Kyle Krull - 00:35:46

I agree with everything you said, and I also feel like in order for that really to work, even if all of the, you know, kind of long shot hail Marys you just laid out Yeah.Came to fruition, like, it's gonna require some kind of pretty significant you know these terms better than I do. Angel investor, massive donor, or somebody just say, look.I believe in this, and I'm willing to pony up to test the theory in a way that's actually meaningful rather than bootstrapping AC working forty, fifty, sixty, seventy hour weeks with no pay.You know? Like, that's just not the it's no wonder it didn't work that way.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:18

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:36:18

And if we really want this to succeed, that's what it needs. At least and I could be wrong, but that's how I feel.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:23

Yeah. Yeah. I agree.I think I could sum up the majority of what we just said with, like, we accomplished the most we could have accomplished with the level of power and influence that we got into the room.

Kyle Krull - 00:36:38

Totally.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:38

Like, we maxed out the resources that we have.And, ultimately, if this ball is gonna get moved forward, like, the brands and the retailers with more power and influence, that control some of those economic levers are gonna have to really lean in and take more of a a leadership role and have real skin in the game.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:55

And we thought we could, catalyze that, and we just we couldn't, and we didn't.And so that will be, the problem for the next group of people that wants to tackle it to solve or the industry to solve or, you know, whatever whatever that looks like.

Kyle Krull - 00:37:08

Yeah. Yeah. One other thing I wanna touch on before we continue to, like, kinda that future part of this conversation is, you know, we shouted out the brands.And it kinda goes without saying, but it's also worth acknowledging, like, the individual members in the brands, the people who showed up on the calls, who believed in the mission, who engaged in conversation, who asked the questions, who, you know, we had a you know, a AC come with this awesome phrase, you know, rapid fire resourcing.

Kyle Krull - 00:37:32

You know, the people who would come and ask a question, like, you know, hey. Hey. Other region brands and individual members, like, here's the problem I'm running into.What can you do to help me solve this? Mhmm. And it was so cool to watch this group coalescing and trying to help each other out.And I think there's a lot of meaning in that, and those are some of, like, my favorite calls and the positive enthusiasm, of the group.It it was just really cool to be a part of. Yeah. So worth acknowledging everybody's individual contribution who came out and helped out.

Kyle Krull - 00:38:00

So I just wanna make sure we said that on today's episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:02

Yeah.I'm trying to remember the exact numbers, but I believe over the course of the year, we had somewhere between 70 to a 100 of those topics where individual brands got resourced on individual items.And then I wanna say we had a similar number even more of the, like, total group topics that we did bring to the forefront. So that's definitely an accomplishment.I also wanna give a shout out to our sponsors and kind of our key partners that supported.

Kyle Krull - 00:38:24

For sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:25

Those eight organizations were really fundamental. We could not have done the work without them. So shout out to all of you that are listening.I really appreciate we really appreciate y'all support.And, you know, it's kind of apropos that we're having this conversation Monday of expo week because we're gonna walk into expo a year after the iHeart regen campaign and

Kyle Krull - 00:38:46

Well, she's not gonna wear all white denim with the red red hearts on it this year.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:51

Yeah. And the the, famous heart suit.You know, but even in even in the fact that that will no longer exist this week, I think, speaks to what we accomplished.Like, that was the first real cohesive marketing campaign amongst regenerative brands that was certification agnostic Mhmm. Ever. We did that. Yeah. We did that with our members.We did it at expo. We did it across some social media activations. We did it across some really cool giveaways.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:39:22

And, actually, you know, we built a really nice value add in terms of the ROI for members with some of the things we built on the giveaway side.So, like, there are some there are definitely some key things that we developed that could be move forward or should at least just be kind of celebrated that brought real tangible value to these businesses in a world where we spent a lot of time talking about how there wasn't enough economic incentive for them to be regenerative, and we tried to develop some of that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:39:49

Did we did we totally change the playing field? No. But did we create some incremental wins? I think absolutely.

Kyle Krull - 00:39:54

Totally agree. Absolutely did. Well, is now the moment where we pivot to, like, what do we think is gonna happen in the future?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:02

Let's talk about the institute a little bit.

Kyle Krull - 00:40:04

Yeah. For sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:07

What needs to be said about the institute? So, obviously, we had the coalition. We had the institute. The institute's a five zero one c three nonprofit.That's the institute that kind of runs, pays for, etcetera, the podcast, the newsletter, the blog, the report, the LinkedIn posts.And, ultimately, team, like, we had never enough time or money to run that organization properly. So I go back to my feedback of we tried to do too much.I tried to do too much.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:35

We probably should have sequenced the organizations to develop one or the other first, or we should have just made sure we had a bigger team or more money to develop them in tandem.Ultimately, I never had, I feel like, the bandwidth, or the tools to go fundraise properly for that entity. That entity's, strategy was really relying on philanthropic capital.So we we had a really cool, kind of audience based donation campaign in 2025, which we raised 25 to $30,000, which that's a lot of money and, like, super appreciative of that.But when you think about, like, just paying one person's salary, we all know what percentage of a a decent living is, $30,000.

Kyle Krull - 00:41:23

Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:41:23

Not to mention the other 100 line items of expenses that we have to run even a very light lean organization.So one, super grateful to everyone that donated and also our recurring donors. Thank you so much. Really means the world to us.Thank you to my parents for donating some of the very important kind of initial, chunks of capital to get the organization started.

Kyle Krull - 00:41:46

I will also say thank you to AC's parents for everything.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:41:52

And, you know, I think I made a couple incorrect assumptions on the fundraising front with that entity.One was I thought that the content and media machine and following that we built would produce more donations.So I thought we could sustain a little bit more of our needs off of the audience, and that just ended up being true.This is not an indictment of our audience. Our audience is awesome. I appreciate all of you that leaned in in whatever way you could support. Thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:42:21

But I think I also just overestimated what what was there.And two, I thought that the network of people in the regen space that I had developed both in terms of fundraisers and funders was going to be one quick email campaign away from significant kind of 6 figures in in philanthropic support or revenue.That also just didn't pan out. And I think I've been sitting with two equal truths on that front.One is I was let down by my network and my community.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:42:54

We we did not we did not perform at the the capacity that exists in that networking community Mhmm.And also to we clearly, like, didn't do something right operationally that caused that.So I can I can live in those equal truths, like, sometimes it just doesn't work out and also what were what was your specific responsibility or maybe tactical misstep there?But, ultimately, I'll I'll try and round it up by just saying when the writing was kind of on the wall that the coalition was not going to be viable for a second year, it also coincided with a need for me to go do a big fundraising push for the institute to to get it kind of self self, self sustaining.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:43:42

And I just didn't have the energy. I was burnt out.I I I didn't have the results historically to say I had great confidence, and some of the initial kind of outreach just didn't didn't bear fruit to to the degree or the the time the time needed to really show me that it was worth pursuing.And I kinda just had to lay down my sword and say, hey. Like, I can't I can't do this anymore.And, you know, on top of that, I think as much as as much as you and I both have enjoyed producing the content, it has lost a little bit of its luster.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:44:21

I still believe in the podcast. I still believe in our format.I still believe we've produced some really impeccable resources, but I do think that you and I's desire, and love of the game has has, decreased some over time.

Kyle Krull - 00:44:35

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:44:35

And as as as dialed in as I think the pod, the newsletter, the report, the social media posts are and were, they began to feel less consequential as time went on.They began to feel, like, less of the work that you and I, I think, as individuals felt called to or felt like was really moving the needle.

Kyle Krull - 00:44:58

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:44:59

And I I didn't see a way to reframe them or replace them in that entity that made the work in general worth continuing.

Kyle Krull - 00:45:09

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:11

So that was a whole hell of a lot. I'm just gonna maybe pause there.

Kyle Krull - 00:45:14

Yeah, man. No.It's, per the usual, you know, I think you're you're sharing a lot and you're I appreciate the transparency, the level of ownership for for everything you did, some of the assumptions that might not have been correct.And there's certainly I don't think I've said this before, like, this organization would never have done anything close to what it did without your efforts, and that doesn't mean anybody's perfect.Right? And you certainly did a hell of a better job than I ever would have done on my own without a doubt. Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:45:47

And, you know, sometimes you test a hypothesis and it doesn't work. Right? And you just have to live with that reality. Oh, man.There was another direction I was gonna take that, and I lost my train of thought.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:57

Well, come back to come back to that.I'll just do a quick shout out to two really impactful, and essential members of our team, Aaron Mancica, our inaugural executive director, and Joy, my virtual assistant.You know, Kyle's really good at giving me a lot of praise and a lot of credit, but those two people were absolutely invaluable, through various parts of this journey, and we really could not have done, a lot of what's been discussed today and been been shown, you know, through the development of the of the ecosystem, without those two people.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:46:32

So it definitely it definitely takes a village.And there's there's plenty of others that I've shouted out on LinkedIn, our board, some of our other key staff members, but all of you hopefully know who you are.And if people wanna see their names, they can go to my my most recent LinkedIn post. But, you know, shout out to everybody that that really played key roles in in making it happen because it takes takes

Kyle Krull - 00:46:51

a village. Yeah. Without a doubt, man. And there's still a village leader. You know? So Yeah. Credit where credit's due for sure. There's also the village, like, guy who just shows up and does talks on the microphone, and that's me. Yeah.But, again, I can't find my train of thought where I was gonna go. What were you talking about before we got there?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:09

Why it didn't work?I mean, I didn't plan for this, but in a similar way that we shared at the end of the coalition kind of recap, like, what we still believe is true.

Kyle Krull - 00:47:20

I remembered it. No. I got it.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:21

Go ahead.

Kyle Krull - 00:47:21

So we haven't talked about this in a couple weeks. Yeah.I don't know if the five zero one c three organization will continue to live on in how we have discussed it. No.Well, then we'll just cut this out of the podcast.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:31

Yeah. Well, whatever. I mean, both both organizations are being formally dissolved.

Kyle Krull - 00:47:35

If you could announce it, if not, and, like, if the podcast is gonna live on, and if so, in what form?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:39

Yeah. Sure. Both of the legal entities will be dissolved and fully you know, they will go away.The rules the nonprofit law, requires you to basically have a different nonprofit steward your assets.You know, a for profit individual or corporation or entity is not allowed to take, assets that have been produced by nonprofit and do something with them, own them, etcetera. So we will be finding a five zero one c three partner to basically store that information.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:48:10

My goal is to keep them published and available, but that does have a cost.So until we have those conversations with that partner, I don't know if they will be still available, but that is the goal.And, yeah, I think people will just have to kinda wait and see if they if they continue to go to Apple Podcasts and see that the podcast is still there.It means we we sorted that one out. Thankfully, it's not a huge cost of keeping the stuff around, but there is a cost associated.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:48:36

So we just have to find that partner and work with them on all of that.All of the podcast blogs, the report, any kind of tangible piece of information, that will all be given to a different nonprofit.Regen brands, the brand, is actually owned by me and licensed, so that trademark and that brand overall will be retained by me. The URL will be retained by me.So maybe there is a Regen Brands two point o.

Kyle Krull - 00:49:03

A resurgence of regenerative brands.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:49:05

Yeah. Who knows? I don't see it as of right now, but I'm definitely not shutting the door on it completely.So, yeah, that's what will happen with, like, the content and the resources, at least as of right now.

Kyle Krull - 00:49:16

Got it. That all makes sense, and I appreciate you sharing that with the audience. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:49:21

Last thing I'll add maybe is that whole, like, what is still true that I think we did prove after going through, like, what did we think was true that we that was, like, incorrect or incorrect in the moment.I am still so bullish and convicted on the fact that this space needs educational materials. It needs know how published and open source and available that doesn't exist.And we just felt like the only way we could do that was to put it in a nonprofit and use philanthropic dollars to fund it because no for profit business is going to be able to, like, unbiasedly produce it and publish it Mhmm.Or be able to underwrite the cost of doing that as, like, the cost of them doing business.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:06

So I still could not be more convicted that a resource entity repository like this needs to exist.We're just, I think, laying down our sword of saying we're the people to figure that out, but I still think it should exist.

Kyle Krull - 00:50:22

I agree wholeheartedly. And I think one of the other things I'm still super bullish on is that brand collaboration is such a unique opportunity. Yeah.And there's still so much appetite. I'll I'll announce here on this podcast that we're launching a force of nature regenerative bison bone broth this year. Nice.So, you know, in in a similar vein to what we have in Maui Nui. Did have I not told you about that yet?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:45

No. Breaking news.Not bad,

Kyle Krull - 00:50:46

dude. Does the industry know yet? Well, Whole Foods is bringing it in in April, so timing's good. It'll it'll be on shelf in April at Whole Foods.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:54

Let's go.

Kyle Krull - 00:50:56

So that's a really, really cool SKU. And, honestly, I tried it for the first time a couple months ago, and I was blown away. Like Nice.Even and I don't know if it's just the lighting in the morning because we heated up for a meeting.And, like, I poured it into the pot to get it warm, and it almost seemed like it was, like, luminescent. Like, it was, like, generating its own light.It was, like, incred it looked delicious, and it tasted I thought it was gonna be kinda gamey. You know, bison's a different meat. I eat a ton of bison.

Kyle Krull - 00:51:22

I was still like, is this gonna be gamey and weird? Yeah. And it was so smooth and rich, and, man, it's just a phenomenal product.But I think there's just I I continue to be inspired by brand collaboration in a variety of ways. Mhmm.And it's such a great way to get people into the unique story behind both brands and why they're trying to support each other.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:43

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:51:44

So I'm just as bullish as ever on brand collaboration, in general and in particular, how it can be beneficial for a regenerative product. Yeah.So that's that's one of the things that I still believe to be true.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:55

That's badass.

Kyle Krull - 00:51:56

Yeah. It's super good, man. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:57

I'm looking forward to having some.

Kyle Krull - 00:51:58

Yeah. I'll send some your way.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:59

Okay. Cool.

Kyle Krull - 00:52:00

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:01

You said Whole Foods Shelves, April.

Kyle Krull - 00:52:03

April.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:03

Check that out.

Kyle Krull - 00:52:04

Whole Foods. Correct.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:05

Okay. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. Where do we go from here? Do we look towards the future? Do you feel like we've captured the past, present enough?I'm trying to think if there's anything else we missed.

Kyle Krull - 00:52:16

Well, in in in terms of things that we believe to be true, and this is not gonna be surprising anybody, but, like, I still think we both believe that the path to purchase needs to be developed Mhmm.And there needs to be the educational awareness and signage and retailer support to really help unlock the next level of growth for all regenerative products. Yep.And until somebody does that, I think the movement will continue to be stymied or hamstrung or whatever word you wanna use, and their growth will be limited and their ceiling will stay low.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:47

Yep. I agree.And I think that ties into one that maybe sits in tandem with it or above it, which is we have still not ever changed the economic incentives for these brands and these products.Outside of some preference and assortment decisions and getting on shelf, there is no competitive advantage with retailers to be a returner product, to be a returner brand.You can argue and talk about individual brands and products about a advantage with the consumer, which is you translating that into some sort of consumer advantage, but still once again, there's no, elimination of free fills.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:53:25

There's no discounts on TPRs. There's no, free POS via this path to purchase development that you mentioned.

Kyle Krull - 00:53:33

Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:53:33

And if retailers really wanna see this thing succeed, it will fail without that. And so the path to purchase could be one solution inside of that.But at the end of the day, if I can't sit down with my CFO as a brand every year and say, you know, we are getting some sort of tangible economic value in retail grocery for for having these return of SKUs or this return of SKU, I just it's gonna be it's gonna be challenging.

Kyle Krull - 00:53:59

I you you hit the nail on the head there. And I almost said you're gonna that was spot on, but that's Yeah. That's a definite

Anthony Corsaro - 00:54:05

You you love that. Be on brand.

Kyle Krull - 00:54:06

Love that. Be on brand.Last episode,

I was just

Anthony Corsaro - 00:54:08

I mean, I haven't said bifurcate yet. So Oh. So we're gonna sneak one of those in.

Kyle Krull - 00:54:12

I don't know if I've heard a let's go either. This is weird. But, anyway, I I I think you're spot on.And what what seems to be crazy to me, like, in the last two weeks, and I'm not gonna, like, call it the specific retailers, but a handful of leading retailers across the country seem to be asking for more in terms of margin, in terms of promo spend, in terms of all sorts of things.

Kyle Krull - 00:54:38

And it just doesn't feel like the environment you are envisioning Mhmm. For regenerative products. Like, it feels further away today Yeah. Than it ever has before. Yeah.And the environment is becoming so insanely competitive, and it really feels like the race to the bottom is going faster than ever. And it makes it that much more challenging to be a regenerative brand in this environment.As we've talked about before, it's like regenerative brands pay this, like, additional tax

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:08

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:55:09

To try to figure out, you know, they gotta pay for these additional certifications. They've got to invest in additional brand education and product education and

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:15

Premium COGS

Kyle Krull - 00:55:16

Premium cost of goods. Mhmm. You know, it's just so, so hard. So you're right, and we're further from that reality than we were when when we started the podcast.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:26

Yeah. Yep. Well, with that optimistic, view, let's go to the future. What did I put what did we put in the outline for the future?

Kyle Krull - 00:55:38

I don't know.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:38

Kind of like a

Kyle Krull - 00:55:39

First time referencing the doc since we started the podcast.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:41

Yeah. We're doing we're doing great. This is our last thing to chat about.

Kyle Krull - 00:55:45

Okay.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:45

But I put, like, where are we at, where we're going, hot hot takes.

Kyle Krull - 00:55:49

Says where is Regen CPG now, where is it headed in predictions?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:52

Yeah. Where is Regen CPG now? What do you think, Kyle? You wanna take the first step at that?

Kyle Krull - 00:55:58

Depends on, you know, where is a broad question, you know, and if where from a I guess we'll start at the brand level.I think there are more regenerative brands and regenerative products available on the market than ever before Yep. Which is awesome Yep. Which is so, so, so cool.And I think that it has more awareness than ever before, and even more bigger brands are trying to figure out, like, how do I incorporate regenerative ingredients or, products into my supply chains, get them on shelf, and things like that.So I think that in that portion of where Mhmm. We are seeing progress. Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 00:56:32

And I've already said this twice on the podcast already, but in terms of where is the movement as a whole Yeah.I feel like we are kind of in the same place we were about a year ago.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:42

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:56:43

You know? And I think climate day happens at Expo West every year, and there's a big talk about collaboration and what we're gonna do as a movement.And I think that we're starting to realize, like, the growth is not gonna come as fast as it did before. Mhmm.And there's only so much acreage that's willing to convert at this stage in the game without proof of viability. Mhmm.So I I'm concerned that we're losing some of the momentum in transition at this stage in the game. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:57:09

So I'll stop there because those are the the big two wears that are on my mind. Yeah. Where do you think we are?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:57:15

Man. You know, so much of this stuff is not linear in its peaks and valleys.Like we said earlier, I think we've done a massive up into the right since June 2022, at least in terms of identification and marketing of the products. Mhmm.I think a lot of products, especially on the rock side, were already regenerative. The agronomics haven't changed at all. We're just slapping a new label on it.And I also think there's a lot that there has been some transition that's happened.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:57:44

So, you know, have we made great strides, if you were not so in the bubble, in the thick of the regen stuff?If you're a retailer, if you're a distributor, if you're just, like, a regular CBG person, would you say, like, wow.This regen thing has, like, really taken off in the last three years. Absolutely. Am I really concerned about where we're headed?And are we in a valley, in a lull, in a plateau right now? Yes. I think the macroeconomic context is part of that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:14

I think the really, really, disjointed combative viewpoints across the spectrum about Maha and about this current administration.

Kyle Krull - 00:58:27

Yeah. Within your done on glyphosate that just happened. Like, I think that took a lot of Maha by surprise.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:32

Yep. And I think there's a lot of interesting, equal truth polarities in that whole thing. Like, has Maha made amazing strides and done really incredible work? Yes.Have they also, like, totally missed the boat at the administration level on some things? Absolutely. Yes. Mhmm.So it kinda feels like where we're at with regen is where we're at almost as a society at large.Maybe I'm maybe I'm

Kyle Krull - 00:58:58

Go big, dude. I love it.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:59

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:00

Yes.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:00

Maybe I'm parallel pathing it too much.But, you know, once again, like, what we've done with regenerative that's missed the boat to me is we have just not built enough precompetitive or collaborative infrastructure to support the rising tide.We have a ton of speedboats racing against each other, to the finish line, but we haven't done a lot to make the waters calmer.We haven't done a lot to make the track easier to navigate. We haven't done a lot to make better engines for all the boats so the boats are faster.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:37

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:38

And that that to me is the work that that needs to be done.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:41

I I appreciate the super zoom out view, and I was thinking about this on my way over today.And, you know, the minute you criticize capitalism, you're deemed a socialist or communist. Right?But I'm gonna go ahead and criticize capitalism because the end game of unfettered capitalism is destruction by consumption. Yeah.And if we don't figure out how to consume better and at some point in time stop prioritizing short term profits Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 01:00:05

For long term sustainability, which I hate that word. Mhmm. But it's it's the truth. If we don't, at some point in time, say, okay. Look.Maybe we're not gonna have profit in Q1, and we're gonna invest in improving the boats or the engines like you just mentioned. Like

Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:19

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:00:20

As a society, as a culture, we need to, at some point, step up and make that decision.And at the same time, it's harder than ever to do that because the wage disparities continue to grow. Mhmm.There's the haves and the have nots in this world, and it's easy for me to sit here as a as somebody who I would consider myself a, quote, have, although I'm certainly not, I'm not a millionaire.Right. But I can afford to buy regenerative products.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:46

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 01:00:46

It's easy for me to say that while there's, at the same time, the majority of the country just trying to get food on the table regardless of whether it's regenerative organic or not.So it's worth acknowledging that.And until we have the any administration or the systems or structures in place to incentivize the purchase of food that is truly beneficial for human planetary health, like, I don't know how we get there.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:08

Mhmm. Yeah. I agree. And I would say that's been an interesting learning too.I think you and I both wanted to be apolitical on this platform, and I've learned that food it's impossible to be apolitical in food.

Kyle Krull - 01:01:25

Which is a shame. It is a shame. Should be possible. And to your point, I don't think it is.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:30

Yeah.And I'm super interested to see what happens after Trump's term

Kyle Krull - 01:01:39

because

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:41

being the age that we are, it's not like I was heavily involved in politics.Like, Trump started to run my senior year of college when I actually, like, started to pay attention for the first time.

Kyle Krull - 01:01:50

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:50

So, like, my entire adult political life is not politics. It's Trumpics. Right.Like, it it's not, like, it's not what it was or what I feel like whatever it used to be before I was an adult. Yeah.So I'm just super keen to see where we go federally, once this term wraps up, which we're, you know, we're very much in the thick of at the moment.

Kyle Krull - 01:02:12

Yeah. And it's it's kinda scary because it feels like the pendulum just keeps swinging harder one direction and then harder the other direction.And really, like, I I've been listening to your new podcast called the raging moderates. And I don't know if it's a new podcast.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:25

I love that name.

Kyle Krull - 01:02:26

New to me, but I know it's so It's awesome. It's so, what's what I'm looking for? Counter not not counterintuitive, not antithetical. Can't think of the words right now.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:35

Oxymoronic?

Kyle Krull - 01:02:36

Oxymoronic. There you go. Nailed it. Thank you for the word selection. Yeah. But they do such a good job of articulating very well the state we're in.And there's very few podcasts where I feel like, oh, man. I agree with, like, 90% of what's being said here. Yeah. And they do a really good job.And it's Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov.And really appreciate her perspective because she's on a a show on Fox News called The Five, and she is, like, the liberal on that show.

Kyle Krull - 01:03:02

And she's constantly I don't know if it's an everyday show or every week show or what the cadence is, but she's talking to other like, Jesse Waters, like, other major Fox News.I was, like, pushing back, and she's she's a self proclaimed, like, bleeding heart liberal. Yeah. But the podcast itself is really focused on the moderate side of the things.And they do a good job of calling out some of the successes of this administration and the failures and the successes of the democratic Yeah. Side and failures. Yeah.And I think we need more I think most of us are moderates. Mhmm. You know, we need more conversation in that direction.

Kyle Krull - 01:03:35

And circling all the way back, when you mentioned, like, what's gonna happen in the next administration

Anthony Corsaro - 01:03:41

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:03:42

What I think the the planet needs, what The United States needs is not a further swing of the pendulum Yeah. But somebody to, like, slow it down.I'm actually thinking a lot about this, and we're going way off topic here.But it's like, if we could figure out because I I think that most elected officials are so focused on winning the political battle, they forget that their job is to govern.Right. They're more interested in politics than governing.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:04

Right.

Kyle Krull - 01:04:04

And we need to change the incentive structures for politicians to say, like, look. Stop this political game Yeah. That's ruining the country. Yeah.And, like, for example, if if we had a new and this is never gonna happen.But if we had a new law in place for congress, it was like, hey. Anytime there's a government shutdown, you're automatically disqualified from your election.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:20

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:04:21

And really force people to work beyond the aisle and say, oh, man. Like, I'm not doing my job. I'm fired.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:26

Right.

Kyle Krull - 01:04:26

Imagine how much I would change the game. Mhmm. You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:29

Yep. There's so many things like that, man. And yeah. I mean, there's just so much to do there.It feels it feels, like, very daunting and overwhelming just like food and regen does.But I I I do think, like, remove the current administration's track track record attached to Maha and just look at the cultural frameworks underneath Maha.Like, the culture is is changing. And I think we're entering, like, an age of an age of what's that d word when they share stuff? What's that called?

Kyle Krull - 01:05:17

I don't know. D word where they share stuff.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:20

Oh, gosh. What's it called? Not discovery, but, like, not disillusioned. It's, it's when the government shares information that's previously been classified.

Kyle Krull - 01:05:29

Oh, declassification.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:31

No. But there's another word they use for it.Anyway, I feel like we're I feel like we're entering an age of truth after a very long time with a lot of, like, shadow work.

Kyle Krull - 01:05:39

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:39

So, anyway, we're totally off topic now. But I am an I am an eternal optimist, and I'm still I'm still, like, bullish on bullish on humans, bullish on America.

Kyle Krull - 01:05:50

Yeah. And I think you're right.I think there was a major cultural shifts happening, and I I don't mean to keep it political, but there's a guy in Texas who I think is running for senate, James Tallarico.Yeah. Have you heard of him?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:00

No. No.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:01

They so he did an interview on Colbert recently, and the the news agencies basically shut it down. Like, don't give this guy any airtime.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:09

Wow.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:09

Because he's so eloquent and so powerful, and he's a super Christian Republican who preaches some of the the flood is and and and I am a registered independent and tend to lean a little bit more left.Yeah. I'll say that on air.I don't

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:23

know. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:24

I've never been more aligned with somebody with that framework and and, background. Yeah. He's extraordinarily intelligent, articulate, and he like, what he says just makes so much sense.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:37

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:37

And when you hear him speak, like, oh, man. Like, that's how it should be.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:40

Right.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:41

You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:41

Right.

Kyle Krull - 01:06:41

And, again, he feels more like a moderate, and it's, it's just interesting. It's gonna be really interesting to see how things change as this next generation Mhmm.Starts to come to terms with, like, okay, we're gonna end up in power, and what changes do we want to see as a society?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:55

Mhmm. Yep. Well, now that we've made this a political podcast, I do have a question for us.Where do you sit on the continuum of bearish to bullish on regenerative as a CPG marketing term or marketing, claim.

Kyle Krull - 01:07:16

If there's an animal that was a mix between a bear and a bull, what would you call it?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:07:19

Uh-huh. I don't know. You could just be right down the middle. You could just be fifty fifty.

Kyle Krull - 01:07:22

I'm just being moderate. Yeah. I still think the claim has some value.And I still think if you're a new brand and you're in a category, in particular, that doesn't have a lot of regenerative options, I do think you still have a leg up.I do still think that retailers are looking for regenerative options. Yep.And that's apparent both in their assortments right now and the fact that they're trying to get regenerative in private label. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:07:47

So I do think there's still value, so I'm more on the bull side there.And I think until mass education and path to purchase are ironed out, the upside will be limited, but there's still upside. Yeah. Where do you see it?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:01

I share a lot of those same thoughts and sentiments. I think you think you're spot on, with all that. Nice. What do I think?I'm still, you know, if my needle's right in the middle, slightly bullish, for the reasons that you just mentioned.And I do think even though it hasn't became

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:21

A hard enough economic incentive like I've already alluded to, there is still some preference on the retailer side, and there is still that that that gap in a lot of categories to be the leader like you just mentioned.

Kyle Krull - 01:08:33

Mhmm.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:33

So for that, I think the needle has to tick a little bit over to the bullish side.But I I think I am I think my needle is on the bearish side when I think of the outlook for the next ten years.I think the term is totally fucked in a lot of ways.I think the train has massively left the station in terms of there's way too many people using it. There's way too many people defining it differently.

Kyle Krull - 01:08:58

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:59

I just think it's, like, so hard to put the cap back in the bag when Cargill and McCain and Pepsi have a definition, and Whole Foods and Alexander Family Farm and Rock have a definition.

Kyle Krull - 01:09:14

Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:09:15

And we've never shied away from that as I think as as a threat or a potential limiting factor for the work.But, you know, that that latter group that I mentioned, until they get their shit together and once again, this is all super self serving because this was our theory of change and the work we try to do and we failed to do.So, hey. Maybe it's not possible.But until that until that group mobilizes, and creates some sort of much more unified grassroots movement to really own the term and make it have the right definition, awareness, economic incentive, accountability for the other people that wanna use it, it's it's gonna just not mean a whole lot.

Kyle Krull - 01:09:54

I think you're right for a lot of reasons.I'm really glad you brought this up instead of the way you said it because the big companies you you just mentioned, you know, the Neses of the world, the Pepsi's of the world, the Cargos of the world, understand that if we don't change our practices Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:10:08

That we're not gonna be able to they're not gonna have businesses because they're not, like, gonna be able to grow food. Yeah. Twenty, thirty, forty years. Right?And if the small group you just mentioned, the Alexander Family Farms of the world, the Whole Foods of the world, the Sprouts of the world, all the brands who are doing it right Yeah.Don't figure out how to make the term something that they all believe in, the other group will. Yeah. You know what I mean?So, you know, because they're still making efforts, and they should be commended for those efforts to a degree. Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 01:10:33

But they should not get to dictate the term and dilute its power from those who are really practicing true regenerative practices.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:40

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 01:10:41

So, yeah, I think I think you're right. The term is in a very ambiguous place right now.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:46

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:10:47

And that's gonna be interesting to see how, like you said, the next five, ten years go.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:52

2050, the year is 2050. Is regenerative a codified single binary claim like organic currently is? Yes or no?

Kyle Krull - 01:11:05

My immediate answer is how do you define regenerative?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:11:11

I don't I think you can answer the question without answering that.And just look into your crystal ball and say, like, has it been standardized, and has it been unified under one sort of, like, third party?

Kyle Krull - 01:11:24

Yeah. I think 2050, the answer is yes.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:11:26

Okay.

Kyle Krull - 01:11:27

What it means, who knows?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:11:30

Yeah. Okay. Second two questions. Does it have more or less market share than organic?

Kyle Krull - 01:11:38

Again, contingent on the definition answer. That and that that's the if if regenerative doesn't have to be tied to organic, then, yes, regenerative will have more share than organic.And if regenerative has to be tied to organic, then no. Mhmm. It can't ever have more share than organic.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:11:55

Mhmm. Okay. Will it have greater consumer awareness than organic in 2050?

Kyle Krull - 01:12:03

I think so. What do you think?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:12:07

I'm no no and no, I think.

Kyle Krull - 01:12:08

Oh, really? Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:12:09

I think I'm very so maybe I'm super bearish, actually. Yeah. If I think about it like that.

Kyle Krull - 01:12:13

That you're a closet bear.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:12:14

Yeah. It turns out I'm a closet bear on regen. And, you know, I'm really trying to not be a prisoner of the moment.Like, I'm really not trying to extend my frustration and my disappointment in what we built and then not working out to the movement at large.I'm trying to be sober and objective.And I just look at historical precedent with other things, and I look at where we're at and the actors in it and the lack of kind of aligned incentive and power dynamics, and I just don't I don't see it right now.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:12:47

I don't see I don't see things that can make me say yes, yes, and yes to those three questions right now.

Kyle Krull - 01:12:52

I very much understand that. And one of before I respond greater, like, you should be so proud of what you did. Truly, man.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:02

Thanks, man.

Kyle Krull - 01:13:02

And I think that was echoed in the sense of it's on your LinkedIn post. Like, so many people shouted things out, people I didn't know.Like, the the ripple effects from the water drop Mhmm. Are far and wide and will continue on.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:15

Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 01:13:16

You know? So be super proud of that and and appreciate your cognizance of, like, not being represented on the moment. In terms of you say no, no, no Yeah.Can't fault you for those answers.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:28

Yeah. And I hope I'm wrong too. Like, disclaimer. I hope I am wrong.

Kyle Krull - 01:13:32

You know? But, again, I can't fault you for those answers. And I think I really think there's there's such a planetary need Mhmm.For people to change the way we grow food that I think it has to happen. Mhmm. You know, it can't not happen overall dead, literally, man.Like, it's it's literally do or die.And and even more so than the human and planetary dead part, the businesses will not be able to to sustain because they will have less arable land to cultivate food on.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:06

Mhmm.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:06

And if anything, we know, like, what's gonna drive change, and that's business's ability to make profit. Yeah. Right?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:12

It's true.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:13

So that's why 2050, I think that the sense of urgency Mhmm. Will be more dialed up and more real by then.And, again, at some point in time, these businesses are gonna have to figure out, you know, maybe maybe we take less earnings in q one and try to, like, implement some of these changes.Gross oversimplification.

But

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:34

How tied though to that is it succeeding as a consumer claim? Because I think I could make a pretty strong argument that they're not to that tied together. Wow.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:42

Like, what I don't disagree with that.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:44

Like, what you just laid out, that's gonna happen regardless of if a consumer knows what the term is and cares about it, and it's like some sort of codified claims architecture.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:54

Super fair point.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:55

And it's just gonna be like the new baseline of agriculture, which, honestly, fuck. That'd be awesome. So maybe maybe, you know, maybe that'd be great.

Kyle Krull - 01:15:02

It might be diluted regen, but maybe that means cover crops and low till instead of no cover crops and heavy till. You know?And I'm sure there's still be pesticide usage heavy. But to to your point, it's still an incremental net benefit.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:15:16

Okay. Last last future question. This is a fun one. If you could only pick one, what is the silver bullet for regen? Is it farmer profitability?Is it the future of, like, nutrient density analysis and testing? Is it, the doomsday scenario kind of incentive of, like, we have to make the change?Is it someone's gonna create the new glyphosate that isn't that doesn't have any of the negative externalities? Is it so it's, like, tech?

Kyle Krull - 01:15:45

Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:15:46

So, basically, farmer profitability, nutrient density, ag tech, or let's call that policy. Because, like, if it is really the doomsday scenario, it's gonna be implemented via policy.

Kyle Krull - 01:15:56

I like doomsday scenario better. It sounds way cooler. Yeah. So and I think it's it's those two. Yeah.I think the doomsday scenario, but whether or not that becomes, like, bastardized regen or true regen Yeah.Is gonna be, at the end of the day, what moves needle more than anything else. Yeah. If there were like, if if I'm picking two horses Yeah.I think nutrient density is gonna be key.

Kyle Krull - 01:16:14

And I think with the proliferation of nutrient density testing, lab work, and all the new tech going that direction in consumer awareness with Maha, I think that's the the one thing that could help to push this over the edge.Yeah. What do you think?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:16:33

It's a you have to pick one question that you and I are both gonna refuse to just pick one on. It's classic.I think if you're betting on and hoping for the consumer claims proliferation of regen, it's the nutrient density testing.I think if you're betting on or hoping for the, you know, new standard of agriculture, it's policy slash the doomsday scenario.

Kyle Krull - 01:17:00

We're aligned.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:17:01

Yeah. So I think I think we agree.I also do think that farmer profitability is a huge deal, and I also think that AgTech in the right lane with the right application, in the right systems, I think can really move the needle.So I'm pretty bullish on all four, honestly. It's probably gonna end up being a combination of all four. And, yeah, it'll be fun to watch.

Kyle Krull - 01:17:25

Yeah. It'll be interesting to watch. And, you know, this is the farewell podcast. However, I'm always leaving the door open.You never know when I might do an ad hoc, like, emergency Yeah. Ripcord.You know, I'm a big fan of Dan Carlin's heart hardcore history podcast, and he does these, episodes called common sense.When the world's going a weird direction, he'll just randomly do an episode. We might need to do the same for regen.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:17:46

I tell you what, man.After going through this experience today, in person is fucking 100 times

Kyle Krull - 01:17:53

Better. Much better.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:17:54

Oh my god. Yeah. It is so much better.So my wheels are already turning on how we could do that, but, unfortunately, I think, there's quite a bit of distance between Irvine, California and Bend Oregon at the moment.

Kyle Krull - 01:18:05

Unfortunately, there is. Yeah. So at the moment, like, that's gonna change anytime soon. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:18:11

Yeah. We'll have to see on that. Yeah. I do love I do love the format. I do love the like, I do love podcasting in general.It's been so fun to do with you.We've had a

Kyle Krull - 01:18:21

really good fun. And some of our guests, man. I've just been we've had so many great conversations.And not just talking about regen and education, all like that, but just connecting as as human beings. Yeah. You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:18:31

Yeah. Yeah. Well, brother, it's been fun, man. Thank you.

Kyle Krull - 01:18:36

It's been real.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:18:36

It's It's been a it's been a great ride, and proud of what we've done, what we've done, proud of what all the people listening and that I've supported in various ways have helped us do.It's really, really a lot, and everyone should have a lot of gratitude and pride about it.And, also, full eyes and hearts open to, I think, some of the work still to be done that we've we've, you know, laid out today. So

Kyle Krull - 01:19:04

Yeah. You're at that well. I'm not gonna try to add anything to it, man. Just appreciate you. Appreciate this. It's been a blast.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:19:10

Love you guys. Thank you.

Kyle Krull - 01:19:11

Appreciate you guys.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:19:15

For transcripts, show notes, and more information on this episode, check out our website regenbrands.com. That is regenbrands.com.You can also check out our YouTube channel, Regen Brands, for all of our episodes with both video and audio.The best way to support our work is to give us a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe to future episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.You can also subscribe to our newsletter, the Regen Brands Weekly, and follow our Regen Brands LinkedIn page to stay in the know of all the latest news, insights, and perspectives from the world of regenerative CPG.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:19:50

Thanks so much for tuning in to the Regen Brands podcast.We hope you learned something new in this episode, and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, your talent, and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system.Love you guys.