Show Notes:
AC and Kyle chat with Phil Graves of Wild Idea. In this episode we learn about Dan O’Briens journey starting Wild Idea, Phil and their team’s big plans for future growth, and just how vital the American bison is to regeneration as our keystone ruminant species here in the United States.
Links:
Episode Recap:
ReGen Brands Recap #15 - Phil Graves @ Wild Idea
Episode Transcript:
Kyle Krull - 0:00:16
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers, operators and investors to learn about the consumer brand supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is Jos. Kyle joined with my cohost Dacey. Let's dive in.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:00:33
On this episode we have Phil Graves who is the CEO at Wild Idea Buffalo. Wild idea is supporting regenerative agriculture through their nose to tail offering of regenerative organic Buffalo products. In this episode we learn about Dan O'Brien's journey starting wild idea, Phil and their team's big plans for future growth, and just how vital the American bison is to regeneration as our keystone ruminant species here in the United States. Phil has an amazing background and we were fired up about the future of wild idea after recording this one. Let's dive in. What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. We are fired up today to have Phil from Wild Idea Buffalo, one of the region pioneers in our space, especially on the brand side. So excited to dive into all things wild idea with Phil. So welcome Phil.
Phil Graves - 0:01:24
Thanks so much for having me.
Kyle Krull - 0:01:27
Yeah, of course we're we're super stoked. I'm super stoked, I outside of people who actually have their own bison ranch, I might consume more bison than the regular human. I've got a freezer stocked, a wild idea as we speak. So yeah, I'm really excited to have this conversation and to to Share your story with our audience. It's going to be really fun.
Phil Graves - 0:01:47
Me too, I'm. I'm spoiled. In my career, I've been able to work for companies who offer products that I love, whether it's a Patagonia jacket or a Wild Idea Buffalo rib eye steak, it's a it's a great place to be awesome.
Kyle Krull - 0:02:00
Right on. Well, for those who aren't familiar with wild idea, before we dive into the origin story, just give us like a quick lay of the land, like what do you make or produce or raise, and where can people find your product?
Phil Graves - 0:02:13
Absolutely. So 25 year old business, our main revenue driver is Buffalo Meats. That's what we've sold from the start. We are nose to tail, like literally you can buy the tail for a pet treat the typical offerings that the meat companies would have. So roast ribs, Stew burgers, steaks, we've got some shelf stable products like snack sticks, jerky, you name it. If it's if it's got Buffalo meat in it, we offer it. Leather is an emerging category for us. We have a product with our partner Patagonia on the boot side and we have some other Buffalo leather products on the horizon too. So those are their two main areas, meat and leather. And we're also looking deeply into R&D for Buffalo fiber and that spirit of using the whole animal. Super cool. You know, a lot of people say no to the tail, but you literally sell the tail, which you sell the the ox tail. That's what it's called on our website. You mentioned where's picking up? Our website's a great place to go. That's www.wildideabuffalo.com. And if you're looking for our product in a store by you, we also have a store locator section. Our biggest grocery partner is Natural grocers and we're at many of their locations across the country.
Kyle Krull - 0:03:31
Awesome Kevin, anything. Now we're just chatting about it. We've both seen a wild idea in the freezer section at the natural groceries here in Bend OR I've definitely made a purchase there. Before we dive into the origin story, I'm curious know why does wild idea choose the term Buffalo instead of bison?
Phil Graves - 0:03:48
I get asked this question on a weekly basis, sometimes a daily basis. I think they're they're interchangeable here. In North America, the scientifically correct term is bison, bison, or American bison. The reason we call them Buffalo is that colloquially, they've been called Buffalo for centuries here by Europeans when they come over and our Native American friends refer to them as Buffalo. So we source for many Native American partners. They call them Buffalo. We call them Buffalo too.
Kyle Krull - 0:04:21
Love that.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:04:23
We we definitely are going to have to talk more about this intersection of food and fiber because I think for region AG to really find its footing and scale we're going to need more of that. So I'd love to hear that y'all are working on that but I know Dan is is kind of a pioneer and legend in the space for those that don't know about that fill. And then also for those that maybe need a a recap on the the Buffalo or bison being this keystone species for a large swath of our ecosystems here in the North America. Just take us through the origin story and how wild idea got started and why I got started and all that.
Phil Graves - 0:04:53
You bet. So our founder, Dan O'Brien, has a heart for birds. That's really where it all began. He's a biologist by training. He spent many years working with the Peregrine Fund, helping to reintroduce peregrine Falcons across the country. And he saw first hand that the impact. Traditional or chemical slash industrial AG was having on bird populations. He's an avid bird hunter himself and when grouse population started going down and some of these great upland birds were being decimated by traditional farming. Realized that there's a major connection with the land and the wildlife that inhabits the land. So for for Dan, he didn't get into this Buffalo business to build a meat empire. He did it from his love of birds and wanting to protect wild places. So he started like most ranchers and.
Phil Graves - 0:05:30
Cattle saw the the highs and lows of the commodity cattle industry, and he and he saw that cattle. And at least if you don't do it in a rotationally grazing way, and sometimes even then if you're not doing it the right way. It can be a net harm to the environment and Buffalo Kyle as you mentioned are a keystone species. They've been here for 10s of thousands of years in North America and they've evolved to coexist with native Prairie grasses and and healthy grasslands. So with Buffalo their hooves are different than cattle. They're they're shaped more like a little spades. They lightly break up the soil, that's great to get water and air in the soil. They move the seeds around for the native Prairie.
Phil Graves - 0:06:02
Grasses when it sticks onto their coats. And a key part about Buffalo is they they love to roam. So they they don't hang out in one little area that's you know, next to a Creek or by their favorite food like like cows do. They like to just get out there and roam around. That's what they were designed to do. So with our Buffalo we we approached it on large landscapes we have.
Phil Graves - 0:06:32
36,000 acre home ranch. Dan's first ranch was about 600 acres, so a good start, but nothing like what it is today. And so back in the day he he recognized that all right, cattle aren't great for the environments. Buffalo is, you know, definitely a different species. It's not domesticated, but it is from his research, the right choice for. Planet Health and biodiversity and building healthy ecosystems. So he actually visited another Buffalo producer in in western South Dakota and he was watching their roundup where they do their annual counts and ear taggings. And he wasn't planning to to purchase any Buffalo at the time. He was just soaking it all in trying to understand the differences of Buffalo and cattle. And it's one of the the greatest sales pitches of all time the the ranch that he visited they had.
Phil Graves - 0:07:19
13 orphaned Buffalo and the owner of that ranch said hey Dan if you want to take these 13 orphaned Buffalo whatever survives the winter and and South Dakota was winters are no joke he said then you can just pay us for whichever animals survive and that's tough. South Dakota winner with no mother to take care of him but Dan he took the bait he raised those 13 orphaned baby Buffalo and now our herd is about 750 had going from that initial 600 acre. At the Broken Heart Ranch to our Cheyenne River Buffalo Ranch where we operate today. Wow. Did all 13 make it through the winter? They did, they did. Wow, that's an incredible story. OK, so that's that's how the the ranch started. How and when did you get involved with wild idea? I got connected through the Patagonia relationship. So I worked at Patagonia for seven years, looked after the venture capital fund.
Phil Graves - 0:08:18
And that's where my interest in regenerative and organic agriculture was, was Turbo charted, charged. I've always been passionate about organic foods and thinking about the food that you eat and the clothes that you buy and its impact on the environment, but. Going deep on supply chains at Patagonia is really where I recognize the importance and power that a supply chain can have on the environments on the climate crisis. And that's where I learned about really Buffalo deeply. I helped lead the the Patagonia transition on the financial side as an investor into wild idea and that's where I saw wild Buffalo grazing on large landscapes for the first time. And they they nabbed my heart, these keystone species freely grazing on 10s of thousands of acres, building healthy habitats for all sorts of critters, black footed ferrets, birds, you name it. They are everywhere in this thriving ecosystem. And for me, looking at.
Phil Graves - 0:09:27
Hundreds if not thousands of companies that are doing good things on the environmental, social and governance side, ESG, I had not come across a company where you have. Environmental good that moves lockstep with the financial revenue and profitability, things that are tracked from a business standpoint like wild idea. So I've been an advisor to the family for a long time, very passionate about helping them along in their journey and I was honored and and completely flattered when they asked me to join as CEO about six months ago. And it was a an offer I could not turn down.
Kyle Krull - 0:10:28
Really cold.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:10:29
So can you, can you educate our listeners on two things? One, how different it is to manage Buffalo versus cattle because like the bison will kill you, like it's like a different, it's like a totally different ball game, right. So that's one. And then two, I think when a, when a consumer goes to the store they see bison or Buffalo on the shelf and they automatically think free range fully grass fed, grass finished and really the vast mass majority of that in our countries is not the case, right? And so can you describe kind of in speech of those two things and how wild ideas so different in those two categories?
Phil Graves - 0:11:01
You bet. I'll take the second question first spot on Anthony. There is a common perception which is a misperception that if you see Buffalo in the grocery store, you think of it as the wild idea model where you have these beautiful majestic animals grazing over 10s of thousands of acres. And the reality is that's not the case I think like mini market based offerings they look at. OK. The price per pound for Buffalo may be attractive or it's a hedge against cattle prices because it's a little bit of a different meat and so people get into the Buffalo industry that way well. Dan is very rare and that he was raising cattle and doing rotational grazing and then when he made the switch to Buffalo, he recognized that these are truly different species and you cannot treat a Buffalo just like a cow. Buffalo are not domesticated. They can kill you. As you said, Anthony, that's that's the bottom line. You do not pet them, you do not treat them like cattle. And so for us we are in probably the 1% of the 10%. And what I mean by that is.
Phil Graves - 0:11:36
More than 90% of Buffalo that you purchased at the store or at a restaurant with a Buffalo burger was finished in a feed lot, which is designed for cattle, and it was shipped to a slaughterhouse to meet its its end of life. That is first of all terrible from an environmental standpoint. I'm sure we've read about the the travesties that happen at feedlots even with traditional cattle who are domesticated. So it's a little bit of a better path compared to a Buffalo going there. But still they they wreck the environments they they are stressful for the animals and then again the transportation miles and the the the the conditions that these animals were will be exposed to being trucked sometimes hundreds of miles. Goes to a feed lot and then hundreds of miles to a slaughterhouse. It's it's terrible for cows, and it's indescribably horrible for Buffalo. These are not domesticated animals, they're not used to being on a truck. They're not used to being right around humans. And so when they're one treated that way, they're incredibly stressed, kicking out adrenaline and cortisol. Many buffaloes die in that process. It's something you don't see on the packaging when you buy traditional Buffalo meat and.
Phil Graves - 0:12:46
And you know, frankly, they weren't, they weren't designed by nature to eat grains and corn that they're fed and feed lots. It's simply used because efficiencies are there. You can fatten them up. It doesn't help the quality of meat. One of the things that I've learned recently as we were talking to it in the early days, one of the traditional slaughterhouse plants and we said what do you do with the the livers because you know at that time livers weren't in high demand. They are now for their nutritional benefits. But he said we never get the livers and we we said, well.
Phil Graves - 0:13:16
Why is that? And the reason is because, as we know, livers process toxins for the body. So if a Buffalo goes to a feed lot and is forced to eat things that is not designed by nature to eat, its liver is destroyed and it does not, it can't even pass inspection to be sold for human consumption. And so if the liver is trashed, you can imagine the quality of the rest of the meat. So bottom line, Buffalo have no business being in a feed lot or shipped to a slaughterhouse. And for us, I said, you know.
Phil Graves - 0:13:46
90% of Buffalo or feed lot bound, while idea never has sent an animal to a feed lot and then where we go from that, that 90% to the one percent is the ones that are truly grass value. Grass finished on the Buffalo side, that's great. We commend our competitors for doing that, but they end up going to the slaughterhouse too. So again you have an animal that is not domesticated being loaded up into a truck, ships often hundreds of miles and marched into a slaughterhouse. And so for us, with our field harvest, that's where we're truly unique compared to any meat that you can get in the grocery store because we take the animals down humanely by a marksman in the field. I've witnessed the process. They're just, they're chomping on their favorite native Prairie grass and then lights out. It's completely pain free. The herd isn't stressed. They just kind of look over at Fred be like, oh, I guess Fred's taking a nap and there is no comparison between our humane field harvest and the convention.
Phil Graves - 0:14:42
Way that companies are are taking Buffalo to market.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:15:16
I know Kyle's salivating to get into the field harvesting.
Kyle Krull - 0:15:19
Yeah, so I mean, I've been lucky enough to witness 1 Buffalo field harvest myself, and I couldn't agree more with your assessment. It is when and not to say the death is ever beautiful, but I couldn't think of a better way for an animal to die, to be surrounded by his family and its natural environment, doing what it does every day. And then just like you said, you know, marksman shot. Drop immediately, no pain and and I don't understand how or why this happens but the herd really is relatively unaffected and at the ranch I saw that the Buffalo actually crowded and kind of like acknowledged the fret in this case the Buffalo that was down went over and sort of like give it a nudge or something and it moved on. And then I think the the last Buffalo to spend time there was its mother hung out for a few minutes just the two of them and they moved on and they all sort of started. Stampeding around almost like in a celebration of life, in some weird way it was, it was really emotional and moving to see and strangely very beautiful. And I can't think of a better way to support a business that's doing that sort of operation. One of the questions I have, are there any studies that kind of show you mentioned all the stress levels with capo's like the consolidate animal feed operations and the slaughterhouses? Are there any studies that show how the adrenal glands and the other hormone issues stay in that meat versus when they feel harvested? Like, just by comparison?
Phil Graves - 0:16:47
Yeah, I mean for sure you can. You can scientifically pinpoint the nutritional density of the meat, both from eating dozens of types of different Prairie grasses compared to 1 invasive species, grass that has better yields, quote UN quote than native grasses, and then flipping the animal to a feed lot where it eats the same thing every single day that nature did not design it to eat. Dr. Fred Provenza will be joining our company for a National Bison Day events on November 5th if anybody. In Western South Dakota and wants to drop by Rapid City and and hear the expert talk about the benefits of native Prairie grasses impacting healthy meats and then therefore healthy humans that consume that meat. That'll be a great learning session for all involved, myself included. And on the on the stress side too. So you've got the native Prairie grasses that our animals eat, and then you have the fact that, as you've witnessed with your own eyes, Kyle, the animal is completely knocked out with zero. Doesn't doesn't know what happened the if there are any hunters that are listening right now you know the the impact on the meat itself. If you have a bad fight or flight experience of experience, if it wasn't a clean kill. If you've ever eaten an animal that has had that happen to it, you can tell this that the quality of the meat is far inferior. And I think there's just the subjective taste test if you if you try one of our grass fed grass finished Buffalo burgers compared.
Phil Graves - 0:17:47
To competitors I think you'll you'll be able to tell absolutely yourself and then the science is is quite clear through doctor Provenza's work and others that when you don't have those those cortisol and and adjournal and issues at the harvest the needs itself is is better for you that's.
Kyle Krull - 0:18:36
Incredible. You know and you mentioned the burgers, I think I had three of the Jill's grass fed grass finish price and for Buffalo burgers last night for dinner. And yeah they are truly amazing and I love that they come preseason. Then you know just throw them on the grill, pick them up easy peasy. Let's transition a little bit and talk about some of the brand traction. I think you mentioned that the brand is like digitally native started most of the selling online and the primary grocery partner today is natural grocers. When did the natural groceries relationship take place? What does it look like now? And what are some of the hurdles that you run into selling a product as unique as yours? You mentioned like the 1% of Buffalo meat versus all the other meats. Like how challenging is that and what do you have to do to succeed?
Phil Graves - 0:19:22
You bet. So it even goes you know to the origin story where Dan with those those 13 Buffalo and several years later Fast forward we had our first harvest to call it 8 Buffalo. This was kind of right when e-commerce was starting back in 1997. So Dan wasn't an ace and and building websites and neither was Jill O'Brien who was a partner and still as a partner in those days. They they started by writing letters to friends and family across the country saying, hey, we don't want to send our animals to a slaughterhouse where it can go in the traditional meat supply chain. Would you be interested in in purchasing from us? So that's the whole D2C play with pen and paper back in the day and then several years later we get a website up and running. And there are, there are challenges and opportunities with with all of those sales channels. We have a small retail store in Rapid City, but the bulk of our business is online D2C at wildideabuffalo.com. And then we have a growing wholesale business too with this pal mentioned natural grocers as a key partner with our D2C customers. I think that the people that truly know while the deal understand that because we are harvesting the whole animal, we're not buying filets from a broker revised from a broker.
Phil Graves - 0:20:03
Worker, we have to closely manage inventory and sometimes we're out of stock in some ways that it can be challenging for customers. If they really want a Chuck roast and we don't have it, sorry, we can't. We can't just magically create another one. But by and large our customers get it and in some ways that's that's great because it keeps people coming back to the website, seeing what we have in stock, seeing what we don't have in stock. With our our wholesale channel that's a different animal because if you have a wholesale relationship you need to consistently have that product in stock. And so where we've approached it is the, the fact that about half of our yields from an animal is ground. That's that's terrific because it's very rare for us to run out of ground. I think we did once during the pandemic when so many people were buying online and and seeking out grass fed grass finish for for health reasons.
Phil Graves - 0:20:57
We've had a few times where we've stubbed our toe and had to tell natural resources, hey, we're out of this product, but it's it's very rare. So for us ground is the foundation of our wholesale business. We have some other products that we are confident we can offer on a consistent basis going forward. So you don't see the wild idea section at the store and it's empty. But it's always a challenge. We're vertically integrated and I and I love that. And sometimes it keeps me up at night trying to solve some really complex problems because we are all the way from pasture to harvest to processing plant to packaging to shipping. The point it leaves our controls when we hand it off to the UPS driver to to take it to Anthony's door or Kyle's door. So lots of great benefits in terms of trans transparency, traceability, just full control to process.
Phil Graves - 0:21:50
We're never calling a broker to to get more of any individual product, but with that vertical integration you've got to, you've got to work through some issues as they pop up.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:22:32
And you're aggregating from other producers as well on top of that and we're trying to do some fiber things and this and that. So I can only imagine that it's, it's a fun CEO. I'm sure that the White Board's big and got a lot of scribbles on it.
Phil Graves - 0:22:45
No doubt there's never a dull day at wild idea. Yeah, love.
Kyle Krull - 0:22:49
It I meant to ask this earlier, but I'm curious what is your favorite cut or product that wild idea manufacturers and if you have to, if you have to boil it down to like top three I'm OK that's that's fine top.
Phil Graves - 0:23:00
Three, I'd go rib eye on steaks. Love me a good rib eye. I I'm a sucker for hot dogs, too. We made some great hot dogs, and that's something just as a family, you know, Tuesday night, throw the the dogs on the grill, everybody gets to dress it up however they like. Those are those are great, too. And then one of my surprising favorites, as I've really dug into our whole product line, has been our Italian sausage is so good, my wife makes a delicious. Italian sausage and spinach meal, that's that's excellent. You can you can throw it over pasta. There's so many ways to to bring that deliciousness to the plate. So those are my 3 hot dogs rib eye Italian sausage. Final answer.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:23:44
Love it.
Kyle Krull - 0:23:44
OK, nice. I've tried one. I've had the rib eye. I haven't had the other two, so I'll have to add those to my next order. I'm a big top sirloin guy. Love the top sirloin. That wild idea does that for some reason. I just have an affinity for super lean cuts. But yeah, you're.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:23:59
Crazy bro rib, I all day. I can't do that way. I can't do the lean stuff.
Kyle Krull - 0:24:04
Hey, you know, to each their own and that's the that's the best part about, you know, there's plenty of different cuts on the animal. Somebody's got to eat everything, right? So it's good that we have different tastes.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:24:14
That's right. I'm curious, Phil, you know this is not a brand new business. You've been associated them for a long time. There was obviously really good solid financial fundamentals for you to be an investor in them and then an advisor they've brought you on for a reason. My assumption is that is to grow in some way, shape or form. You've kind of alluded to some of those things mean what, what do you see there opportunity and where, where do you want to grow this thing?
Phil Graves - 0:24:38
Sky's the limit and that's that's clearly articulated, Anthony, and basically exactly the fact pattern here. So we've been around for 25 years. We're not the new kid on the block. We've been doing regenerative organic agriculture before people even knew what that was. Dan has been passionate about birds from you know, basically birth and so for us. It's essentially getting the story out there. I think if many people knew how wild idea was different than a, you know, Tyson Foods or a competitor in the Buffalo space, I won't throw anybody under the bus. But if you really closely examine the supply chains of our business and how they're different, I think there's a really good chance that they'll purchase a while they did burger for their next burger. So the marketing, the storytelling, it's something that is part of any successful business. Where we have an incredible edge is that we don't have anything to hide. Colton, who's Dan's son-in-law Dan and Jill's son-in-law is our ranch manager and and sourcing manager and he often refers to all the idea is a glass house. We have people out all the time. Come witness the process, come witness the field harvest. Heck, we show the field harvest up on the website and you can watch yourself a field harvest while you're sitting at home.
Phil Graves - 0:25:23
I don't know that our competitors would feel comfortable showcasing how their animals become meat and so for me I'm I'm I'm fortunate to have some time at Patagonia and and now to sit at Walla deal where I I've been able to work for companies that truly care about their footprint on the environment and again with that regeneration potential and and the the climate crisis one of the things that I learned and it's relatively recently when I was at Patagonia is that. Grasslands sequester a heck of a lot of carbon. Everybody thinks about planting trees and some kind of farfetched climate solutions like sucking it down from the air and storing it. That that's not going to save the home planet. And I for one don't want to go to Mars with Elon Musk. No offense to him. I want to fix what damage is done here and and for the stuff that's intact, keep it intact. Let's not develop it. So with wild idea, native Prairie grasses, one of the key things.
Phil Graves - 0:26:21
Drew me to the company was was identifying that if we get more producers to switch from traditional beef cattle to Buffalo and do it the wild idea way where you have native Prairie grasses that you don't plow up or if you are operating on land that's been plowed bring back the native Prairie grasses and building soil biology and and spurring that soil back to life. The carbon sequestration potential is incredible. We did a study commissioned by Patagonia back in 2015, and one of the takeaways is that on an acre of wild ideas land, we are sequestering 4.5 tons more carbon per year compared to neighboring ranches. That's insane. And if again, just think.
Kyle Krull - 0:27:35
About.
Phil Graves - 0:27:35
Replicating that and.
Kyle Krull - 0:27:37
As we grow, you said, you said per acre, correct?
Phil Graves - 0:27:40
Per acre per year.
Kyle Krull - 0:27:42
And on the home range, I think you said it was 36,000 acres, right? Right. Yeah. So I mean, I can't do that math in my head, but I'd imagine 4.5 tons times 36,000. That is a ton of carbon sequestered every year. I mean, it's monumental difference. That makes sense to your point. Like if we can get more people to transition from cattle to Buffalo, like that could just be a game to 100%.
Phil Graves - 0:28:08
And I I think food is something that really unites us, conservation is something unites us. The fact that, you know, Dan is, is not a tree hunter. He's a bird hunter and he cares about the same things that many people across the country, including in Middle America, care about that. That makes wildity, in my view, a really good ambassador to folks to kind of talk about the impact of the food you eat and the environment. And the bottom line is we all want to have clean air, clean water, abundant Fish and Wildlife, and the habitat that's needed to support them.
Kyle Krull - 0:28:38
For us to enjoy, for our kids to enjoy and for our kids kids to enjoy. You know, one of the things I love about food versus what has traditionally been, if you think back the last 1020 years, like an EV or solar panels where there's significant upfront investments required to kind of quote go green. But with food, you can make a decision one day to decide, hey, instead of a beef burger, I'm going to try bison or Buffalo, you know, and it makes, it makes the ability for people to make an impact. Significantly easier and it can eventually lead to a daily change, you know, and not just a massive impact or investment that they have to make, which I think is really cool. It just makes everything accessible, which is nice.
Phil Graves - 0:29:17
It does. Accessibility really matters and we're fortunate that we have some really nice highend price points, tenderloin, filet, for example. We also have some very accessible price points, Italian sausage ground. Those are things that go a long way in a meal and make it within reach for just about everybody in our country.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:29:37
When when you think about growing an enterprise like this and us and when we talk about scaling the regenerative movement and I spend so much of my time on the investment side, feel that we have this chicken and egg conversation, right. Do we need to grow consumer demand through that storytelling and and these brands, do we need to aggregate and you know get the production to transition like you mentioned like is do we need to do it all at once? Like how do you see that as the CEO of an organization like this, like how do you see that picture coming together?
Phil Graves - 0:30:01
Well, balancing supply and demand is incredibly tricky, especially if you're vertically integrated. Again, I can't just call somebody and and triple our inventory of of rib eyes and tenderloins. So the key is for us relationships and the sourcing partners that we have, Anthony, you touched on that. So about 25% of our supply comes from our home ranch, 25% of our supply comes from Native American owned and operated tribal lands. We want that to be 50% in the next three years. And the balance comes from other private producers, non non-native private producers and the fact that we have been operating in this way for 25 years we have. Contracts and affidavits that will require to show that the animals are raised in a way that it's the wild idea way and in some cases it's that just plus a handshake deal on on a price. And because they know us and trust us and they know that wild idea is on the move and we're gaining some good traction even before I joined the company that helps us shore up our supply so we can make some phone calls, Colton specifically can make some phone calls and bring more head into our process. And on the marketing side to to balance that incremental supply, it's been really powerful to see the hunger, no pun intended, of customers and consumers at large for the real deal authenticity. You know, I've seen some studies that show the number one thing that people care about and_younger people, Gen. Z etc. Is authenticity behind a brand too. They they're fed up with greenwashing. It's been forced upon them for many years and with the digital tools.
Phil Graves - 0:31:10
That we have about traceability, transparency certifications we're charging after regenerative organic certified which uses organic as a baseline. Those are the things that we think are going to give us that edge and and be able to grow and pull through as many Buffalo as we possibly can and do it in the wild ideal way.
Kyle Krull - 0:31:59
You touched on certifications and know this is something anything I wanted to talk about. You serve as a board member on the ROA. I'm curious from your perspective like how challenging is it to get that certification? At your home ranch #1 #2, how hard does it become to maintain that level of integrity at your potential partner ranches, and how does what does the implementation look like, and how do you bring those new potential ranching operations on and ensure that they're meeting those standards?
Phil Graves - 0:32:26
Sure. So in terms of what do we need to to do to get rock and then maintain it? The on the ground work nothing changes we've been regenerative organic without being certified for 25 years. I drafted with with our team at Patagonia and and plenty of help from companies like Dr. Bronner's and Demeter and Roedale Institute some some heavy hitters and the organic and regenerative AG space. And so I know every single requirement for rock we've compared that to what while idea is done and the bottom line is we don't have to do anything differently. What we do need to do is the paperwork and get the auditors. Out and kind of just you know go through that process. I hate to say it, you know flippantly but you know we're fortunate that that's why I joined while ideas we've we've set the high bar for animal welfare and for regeneration for 25 years. So from that standpoint it's just a little bit of cost and paperwork. So we're hopeful to have that here in the next three to six months.
Phil Graves - 0:33:02
Regenerative organic, just to spend a brief moment there, in my view, is the most important certification to look for for consumers. Organic is a solid foundation, and I won't disparage the organic certification, but it's not as broad as it was intended to be. And I will disparage hydroponics as being part of organic. I don't think there's necessary necessarily anything categorically wrong with hydroponics if done in the right way, but it does not build soil health and the organic certification was drafted. Talk about building healthy soil. So if you're growing something in a plastic bucket, it is not organic. So hydroponic was a key part of why we drafted regenerative or getting certificate 5 to begin with. The term regenerative itself is a term that we felt was starting to be Co opted by big Chemical AG companies, climate smart agriculture till a little bit less use, a little bit less water or 10% fewer chemicals each year. And we thought that incremental change is this hogwash. We've got it just like.
Phil Graves - 0:33:54
Call spade a spade, if it's not organic, it's not regenerative and if it's not regenerative and organic it's not going to create the change that we need to see. So I'm very proud of what Elizabeth Whitlow, the executive director of organic certified has built in a very short period of time. It's honored to serve on the board alongside her and some some pioneers in the space. And for us it's really important because our existing customer base has known wild idea for in some cases 1020 years. They know what we're all about. Many of our customers have visited the ranch.
Phil Graves - 0:34:24
But if you're popping into a natural grocers for the first time and you've never heard of wild idea. Those are the kind of things that I think will really give us that credibility and customer recognition. So absolutely fired up to to work with Elizabeth and pursue regenerative organic certification, Audubon certified ranching conservation ranching bird friendly. That's something we're of course with Dan and all of our passion for birds we're keenly interested in and pursuing that too and. From an animal welfare approval standpoint, where we're hitting that certification because with rock, it's yes, healthy soil using organic as the bedrock of the certification, but it also includes a pillar for animal welfare and then a pillar, a pillar for social fairness to to the farmers and farm workers. So it's the most holistic comprehensive certification that's out there. It's also hard for many people to get. So to the second part of the question, how do we scale this thing up? Because if it's just.
Phil Graves - 0:35:21
Wild idea and a handful of other companies we're not going to move the meter in terms of biodiversity and and climate. So for our producers our our approach is to help make it easy for them. So we're we're undergoing certification we'll know where the the challenges are and and how to ultimately if they need to make any changes on on any of those areas walk them through that process. And then showcase that there's a premium, a market based premium for organic and regenerative organic certified products. So if they're already doing the hard work, we can help them with the paperwork and then we'll be able to overtime kick out a higher premium that we pay for those hanging carcasses when we harvest the animals on their ranch and bring them into the wall idea supply chain.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:36:35
Okay, I got a devil's advocate question for you. Love everything you just said. Elizabeth this amazing was with her for two or three days last week. You know, we support Roc, we support some of the other regenerative certifications. I think the space is still really new. So where all that shakes out, you know, we'll see. And certainly I think Roc is the aspirational bar that kind of stands above all the others, but. How do we move the needle still incrementally, right. Like I hear you on the incremental change isn't going to get us where we need to go. But I'm from Indianapolis IN that guy in Shelbyville still going to grow corn and beans on his 400 acres every year, right. How do we, how do we get him to till less, use less chemicals and feel like he's a part of it? Maybe he can't be called regenerative, maybe he can. I don't know, right. But like what do we do for those folks? Because we we do want to encourage them to take those incremental steps.
Phil Graves - 0:37:25
Yeah I I think there's there's no recipe like showcasing success. If you look at row crop farmers it's it's go big or go home. Many family farms have been consolidated and the ones that have scratched tooth and nail to survive to the state. I can guarantee they're not making much money if any money. At best they're kind of break even keeping their head above water and the debt service they have to pay the Big chemical Act companies and the tractors. I could be wrong I I just don't know many 80 acre 100 acre family farmers. That are doing really, really well financially these days and that's been documented in the Wall Street Journal and plenty of other places too. So I think anything to your point, they're, they're interested in looking across the fence and seeing what's going on for us. It can't just be a big. Hippy dippy tree hugger session, talking about regenerative agriculture, Kumbaya, you have to show that it works, that your products are moving off the shelves and again I'd_that premium, there's a clearly documented premium for organic products across every category. It's still too early to see how much if any of a premium rock will have above organic, but I think you lead with that market based premium. I'm a CPA from many, many years ago and so I know that like financial statements matter and debt service coverage ratios are a real thing and tractors.
Phil Graves - 0:38:13
Free. So you've got to look at all of those different components. And while rock is the high bar and really proud to be a very small part in helping that get off the ground, we think it's really important to set the high bar, but also make the on ramp very achievable. And so that's one of the reasons we have three different tiers within rock, bronze, silver and gold. So again, there's always something to strive for. It's going to be very, very hard to be Rock Gold certified, but silver is a bit easier than bronze is.
Phil Graves - 0:38:43
Easier than that. So I think that is kind of one way to have that stair step approach. And then the other is there's some certified transitional programs that are out there too and it's hard to be organic. If you're not organic today, there's a three-year transition period, your yields initially drop and you can't use chemicals. So the soil is worse off because you're not propping it up with synthetic fertilizers to to grow in a non natural way and so that those three years are hell. Producers, just to be very blunt, so grateful that some other brands have offered certified transitional products to tell the story of farmers that are seeking to transition to regenerative. And there are a lot of other certifications out there and our plan is to get everyone again. We don't need them to show what we're doing right necessarily. I think it's good from just a, you know, marketing and storytelling standpoint that you can have all of these merit badges. Again, nothing's going to change at our home ranch. We've been doing this the exact same way for 25 years with the field harvest on native grasses and.
Phil Graves - 0:39:43
They don't need anything. Some of the certification process is just a little comical. I remember Dan had a animal welfare guy that came out and was looking at the 36,000 acres and he looks at Dan with his clipboard and he goes. So how much time do these animals spend on concrete? Do you see any concrete out here? Right?
Anthony Corsaro - 0:40:32
Yeah.
Phil Graves - 0:40:33
There's gonna be some of that where we're just like, OK, let's go through the motions, get the paperwork. But again, I think those things do matter for consumers and we want to be really intentional about technical assistance training, like showing that path for traditional producers to to get on the, the train to regenerative organic agriculture. It could be lowercase, nothing certified, or it could be uppercase with rock or any other. Merit badge that's out there. But we think that, you know, there's there's no doubt about it that the big Industrial Chemical Act system is one that's not working for people or the planet and we need to make some changes really soon.
Kyle Krull - 0:41:08
Couldn't agree more with that last statement. I want to bring them back to. You mentioned product moving off of shelf. You've mentioned marketing, storytelling, and I'm curious from a retail perspective specifically, I see wild ideas being at a categorical disadvantage. When you're trying to tell a story that that's complicated and nuanced in a freezer section in the type of packaging that you're in, and again this is not a knock on wild idea, it's the whole category. It's not a cereal box where you've got, you know what, 8 byte space billboard where you can write a story. So how do you communicate all that nuance to shoppers at the retail space and work on acquisition within that Channel?
Phil Graves - 0:41:47
Yeah, we basically have a 3 by 5 index card label that goes on our ground product.
Kyle Krull - 0:41:52
Most of.
Phil Graves - 0:41:53
Our products and so that's not very much real estate, however you do it to, to get your message on there. And we've talked for you know, almost an hour close to it and I haven't even covered the full story. So absolutely selling wholesale is a challenge because if you have a rich story, how do you convey it to customers in a way that resonates on a teeny tiny little postage stamp of a of a label? We're looking into things. Like QR codes, which are ubiquitous due to the pandemic. And I think those types of things will help. I think the bottom line, it's just going to be grassroots word of mouth. People hearing about Wadia because Anthony told them about us or Kyle told them about us. We just brought on an ambassador who knew. A solid baseline level of understanding about regenerative AG and why it was important. This guy is his name is Eric Kinman. He's a fitness freak. He's done 5 Iron Man and just insanely fit and cares about what he puts in his body for performance standpoint. He visited the the ranch last week. He was just completely enamored by the power of regeneration and and the health benefits of what we have. So I think for most people it's just you know learning, discovering, sharing word of mouth, you know having ambassadors that are just.
Phil Graves - 0:42:35
People that have tried the brand for the first time and and relay that while they do a story to friends and family, that's something we're incredibly appreciative of. And then I think ultimately overtime it's just going to be the ability for a groundswell of momentum for people to understand, yes, this is better for the environment. Yes, this is better for me. One of the key things I learned at Wild idea is you know Buffalo, if you know anything about it, you know it's, it's leaner, be careful you don't overcook it. That's kind of the one fairly widely known attribute of the product and that is true. It's lower in fat, it's lower in calories, it's higher in protein and it has more vitamin B&E than beef, than Turkey, than chicken or plant based meat. So everybody thinks about oh, plant baked meats are so healthy.
Phil Graves - 0:43:23
Let's go toe to toe. I'll put Buffalo against any protein out there and we'll see who went. So if you care about health and Wellness for you athlete you know weekend 5K or whatever like Buffalo meat is second to none. If you care about what your family eat is eating you don't want chemicals in your in your kids mouths from a food standpoint nothing better. And I think just overtime the the human health elements the animal welfare elements and then last but not least and This is why we got started the environmental impact of what we do. Those things will start to be more widely known and then I'm confident overtime we'll we'll make up a significant portion in the supermarket cart.
Kyle Krull - 0:44:32
Totally agree. I just want to touch on like the plant based meat alternatives who claim to be you know morally and or climate superior even though they're grown on GMO row, Crofts played with life, life. I say it's just if you really compared them apples, apples, you know they take studies and say beef does this, we don't, so we're automatically better. Versus this is the impact we make on the environment and the conversation never really happens. So to your point, if you care about what you're put in your body, you know Buffalo is supreme. But also if you care about the impact you're making on the environment, Buffalo is still number one. Like you mentioned, it's the indigenous ruminant of North America it has evolved to.
Phil Graves - 0:45:14
Be a part of this ecosystem. Like if he said earlier it's the keystone species. The more land we can get grazing Buffalo, the better off North America is and the planets 100%. So you know if we find some some new ambassadors to the listeners of this we will be stoked. We'll be even more stoked if we find some producers out there that have thought about Buffalo. Maybe some, you know, crazy person in the corner of their state has tried it and they're a little interested. Reach out, let let us know. e-mail is info@wildideabuffalo.com Colton. Our ranching and sourcing manager and I would love to unpack your situation. Talk about Buffalo. You do need a little bit higher fencing because Buffalo or athletic beasts they can jump over traditional Cal fence. But in other ways it's it's that didn't forget it once you get the right. Grass set up. Once you get the right pasture set up, you don't have to micromanage them and do little tiny mob grazing things that you do where it's very labor intensive. With cattle you basically get enough grass for them, let them let them alone. Our average pasture size is say you know 1000 acres and every few months we we open the gate and they go from 1 pasture to the next to get on fresh grass and rinse and repeat. But with Buffalo you don't have to help them give birth. You don't. We've never given antibiotics or any of the GMO stuff. That's that's.
Phil Graves - 0:46:00
Ubiquitous in the cattle supply chain. So in some ways once you kind of take those initial steps, just like transitioning to organic, there's a little bit of upfront pain with making sure that you get some some good grass go and make sure you've got some fencing that can hold the Buffalo. But after that when you just you set back and let nature do its thing and regenerations magic, the the meat itself is magic and it's a great investment that we'd love other producers to to explore and we'd be happy to help them on that journey.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:46:59
I got a question for you there. One observation on the marketing front from a region perspective. One. One thing I strongly believe is we have a distinct disadvantage with that huge story arc in the beginning, right, to get trial done. But then we have a huge advantage on the back end because the products are so far superior that I think that repeat purchase will just be so much higher than your average product. So I was just thinking through that as, as y'all we're kind of talking about that topic. And my question on the production side, Phil, is really like. We keep saying it. This is the indigenous remitted of this country. You know, regenerative agriculture is not new. It was created and stewarded by indigenous peoples for centuries and millennia. You talked about wanted to have 50% of the production come from native producers. I think that's awesome and super important. We've seen those populations decimated by colonization, genocide, discrimination, racism in this country.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:47:25
How do you actually do that? How do you accomplish that? How do you get those folks more involved in back stewarding their native lands with their native, you know, species that was the heart of their physical lives, their spiritual lives for for Millennium?
Phil Graves - 0:48:01
Yeah. I'll start by saying we don't have it all figured out. We've learned a lot in our 25 year journey, but we still have plenty to learn ourselves. For example, there's been a few little posted stamp size places that we have pulled into the Shine River ranch that are contiguous, that we're intensively farmed row crops and it's been hard to get the native grasses into those. Places at the Shine River Ranch because of the compaction layer. So we're still learning every day. I'll just start by saying that and and and the regeneration side with Buffalo but in terms of partnering with Native Americans for us it's really important as you both said clearly Dan O'Brien didn't and that's regenerative organic agriculture. I didn't Elizabeth didn't I mean it's been it's been around for a long time in many ways it's it's going back to the way we we traditionally fed ourselves with with animals and and.
Phil Graves - 0:48:22
Plants, so with Native Americans specifically Buffalo, are incredibly important to their culture and they're incredibly important to them for spiritual reasons too. And so I think the fact that, you know, you have the sacred animal and the Lakota creation story ties back to Buffalo. So I can't_enough how important Buffalo are to Native Americans and indigenous people. So for us, how we've approached it is. Been very transparent with our learnings. Again like Colton says, we're a glass house. So a good example of of what we've done with the the Native American partnership side is at the Wolokota Buffalo Range in South Dakota at the Rosebud Reservation. The economic development arm of the the Rosebud reservation called REDCO wanted to take a hard look at at bringing back Buffalo as a a new income stream for their people.
Phil Graves - 0:49:23
And also for cultural and spiritual reasons. But it's easy to make a motion and a board meeting and say let's try this. It's harder to actually get the animals back and get the fencing up. And so Dan and Colton over the last several years have been going over there helping, providing technical assistance on. How to how to bring back Buffalo how do you how do you need to change your your operation if you've been running cattle on it for for decades which is the case for many tribes they've they've switched to cattle because that's what the mainstream meat is here in in our country. But the fact that.
Phil Graves - 0:50:11
Others are bringing back Buffalo that are showing some signs of success is really helping them spur them along. Again, the analogy of when we were saying look over the fence of what your neighbor is doing, are there other crops moving quicker, other animals looking healthier? Like those are the kind of things where success is a way to to scale and inspire. So for us that will look code a Buffalo Range project is incredibly important because it's the largest native owned and opera. Heard in the world and we conducted the first field harvest several months ago which is something we're incredibly proud of almost A6 figure check that we cut and so we just you know the the economic development arm of the the Rosebud nation seeing the 10s of thousands of dollars coming in because of the Buffalo which are again incredibly important for cultural reasons and spiritual reasons it made us. Very, very confident that the investment in time and resources that we had to help them on that way was, was absolutely the right thing to do. And for us, again, we have ambitious growth plans. We don't want to just steady Eddie and stay where we are or grow by 2% a year. And to have that supply we need to have native producers bring back the Buffalo that we can harvest on their lands and showcase how they could build their own brands and bring the Buffalo back in a way that creates, creates economic.
Phil Graves - 0:51:24
Security and and food justice for for them and their communities and we need non-native producers too. So we're very big tent in terms of who wants to switch to Buffalo, how can we show you? But we are especially excited about bringing back the Buffalo on native lands.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:52:10
That's beautiful and I love how concrete that example was and like the actual work being done because I think people use the answer that question with some really big pie in the Sky clan that still hasn't even been executed and so like. That's real traction that's really happening, that hopefully is replicable and can be taken other places.
Phil Graves - 0:52:27
Our next harvest that we'll look code is next month so we're we're on our way.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:52:31
Love it. You talked about the economic development arm. We've talked a little bit about kind of fundraising, financing, scaling region AG. Kind of want to tie all that into a couple questions really on we ask everyone how do you finance the organization or what can kind of other brains learn from that? So whatever you can share there I think is the first question, right, from a wild idea perspective and then. Since you came from Tincha Ventures, the venture capital arm of Patagonia in in one of your previous roles, you know I see this great cohort of early stage regen CPG brands that are not getting the funding support that they need because they're not a great fit for traditional venture capital and they've kind of graduated from those Angel investors. So how do we support those brands? So two pronged question there.
Phil Graves - 0:53:14
Yeah, follow the dollars and it's kind of the the, the short answer. Basically as consumers if we can support companies like walidia and other CPG brands that are doing great things in terms of environmental impact and animal welfare and social justice throughout their supply chain. The simple answer is buy more of those products and those are the types of things that the VC's will need to, to look at the total addressable market and all the metrics that they they really care about. That's that's one answer. The other is family. Offices are pretty untapped community, there's a group called Family Office Exchange Gratitude Railroad is is a investment syndicate. But a lot of just high net worth individuals and family offices are represented at that table. And those are the groups where if you can find one or two individuals that are funding this type of work they have their own network and you can tap into it too. So for us at 10 shed we were always mindful of can our investment. Plus the entrepreneurs themselves and whatever capitals like, when do we bring into the round, get them to a place where they're self-sustaining on their own. They're not going to have to keep raising tons and tons of money and go to Sequoia or you know, TPG or some other giant prima equity venture capital fund to get them on their way. And that's the recipe that's worked for wild idea. We've had really hard times and scrape the bottom of the barrel in terms of our our cash balance and use credit cards to make it to the next harvest. But.
Phil Graves - 0:54:09
25 years later, we're still here and I think a lot of those decisions that we made along the way about only working with like minded partners, only taking capital from like minded partners has been essential for us to have these stories like the bowl of Coda historic Buffalo harvest happened three months ago.
Kyle Krull - 0:54:57
I got another question about future outlook. You mentioned there's some aggressive growth plans or just not stagnant growth plans. What does the future look like for wild idea in terms of, you know, what does success look like for you? Is that new products? Is that new markets? Is that bringing on more indigenous ranching partners, you know, what does it look like?
Phil Graves - 0:55:16
All of the above. So we have built a financial model because. 10 years at Deloitte and Consulting just I'm wired to build financial models and look at it what sources and uses of cash. It's just a bad habit I have everywhere I go. So as of three months ago, we do have a 5 year strategic plan and corresponding deal model, financial model to go along with it. That being said, I'm not wed to that. One of the things that I've learned is there's a lot of unexpected things that can happen in terms of supply chain disruptions or opportunities you don't think will be there that show up and just would blow your projections out of the water, so. For us, it's important to establish what we think we could do and do it in a way where we don't make any compromises. One of the things that I'm crystal clear about is if I said, hey, we're going to have to compromise on the humane field harvest, or let's, let's, let's purchase these animals from a feed lot just because there's so much demand.
Phil Graves - 0:55:54
The family would throw me out of my ear, and they should, because that's not who wild idea is and that's not who I am. And so for US, growth is all tied to how quickly can we do it. And we feel the sense of urgency not to make money, but we we feel the sense of urgency due to the biodiversity crisis and the climate crisis. And how do we get as big as we can, as fast as we can without compromising 1 degree? That's my approach. The families, the board, that's their approach to. And for us, we're just, we're hitting the gas. We've got new products rolling out on the market soon that we're really excited about.
Kyle Krull - 0:56:45
Can you give us a sneak peek as to what those are? It's the hardest question, hardest question we've asked so far today.
Phil Graves - 0:56:55
I will, I will. And Jillian, Dan and Jill's daughter and our general manager will probably slap me the next time she sees me. Because if you make it public, there's a sense of urgency to get it to market because people are going to ask, hey, Phil said it. We are excited to roll out a precooked Buffalo breakfast link sausage here, warm it up on the skillet, eat it. It's quick. It's like heat and eat. Feed it your kids on the way out the door and nothing better in terms of human health and. So we have four or five other ones, but I'll I'll give that teaser and that'll help spur us to bring it to market. Sorry, Jillian, is that Channel focus? Is that like a DCC launch? Are you already working with your retail partners on that launch? What does that look like, D2C to start longer term, certainly we'd like to scale it up to natural grocers and other partners, but D2C due to the limited volumes out of the gate?
Kyle Krull - 0:57:50
As somebody who would make pounds of ground ground bison every week for breakfast, Anthony is literally to me bring someone to Tupperware to a coffee shop. That's like what I eat to start my day. I am psyched that I'll have another opportunity to have bison in a different format for breakfast instead of my C eight day seasoned ground bison, which is fantastic for anybody who wants to give that shot.
Phil Graves - 0:58:13
Well, let's let's cross quality recipes Kyle, that sounds good.
Kyle Krull - 0:58:17
OK, sounds really it's just it's Taco meat for breakfast is what it is. So it's it's not nearly as glorious as I make it sound, but it is a great way to start the day. Amazing. Love it.
Anthony Corsaro - 0:58:29
Love it, Phil. This has been an amazing conversation, man. Thank you so much for just the awesome thoughts, the transparency, the vulnerability, we really appreciate it. We wrap up with the same question every time and we'll so we'll do that now how, how do regen brands get 50% market share by 2050? What needs to happen for that to happen?
Phil Graves - 0:58:51
I think we're on our way. Frankly, we're nowhere near there now, but I think the fact that as again I'll circle back on that Consumer Insight Survey I looked at that showed authenticity is the most important thing for Gen. Z and people that are under 40 in general, the brands that are regenerative and authentic. They don't inflate what they're doing. They tell the story as well. If they, if they do those things and really_authenticity, traceability, transparency, all the good stuff, I think, I think it's going to happen. I think we've got some great marketers and storytellers that are passionate about working for regenerative brands, either inhouse or supporting those companies outside at A at a firm. And then if you look at young people that are graduating college now or graduated several years ago, they. Deeply care about working for brands that alliance with their personal mission and values and in the talent more of CPG. Would you rather go work for General Mills and make Cheerios or would you rather go work for wild idea and and bring back the Buffalo? I can't answer for those people, but I'm pretty confident that we're going to, we're going to punch above our weight and we'll hit that 50% by that time frame.
Anthony Corsaro - 1:00:05
Love it. Let's go. I'm fired up.
Phil Graves - 1:00:08
Get it up? Me too.
Kyle Krull - 1:00:11
Right on. Well, yeah. Thanks so much for the time. Incredible conversation. Really hoping our listeners will enjoy this as much as I did, but I'm pretty biased. Again, a lot of bison and Buffalo, but you know, is there anything else you want to close with any of their statements for? You know, we were working through Spiderman, it's wild ideabufflo.com, anything else that our listeners should know?
Phil Graves - 1:00:32
Yeah, check us out on social. We've got a rock solid Instagram in terms of storytelling. Just launched TikTok recently. Dan O'Brien is not managing that. Our founder, he has delegated that he's.
Anthony Corsaro - 1:00:42
Not social media, but.
Phil Graves - 1:00:44
We're on all of all of those social channels. Hit us up on LinkedIn, TikTok, Facebook instead and I'll just I'll land it with this. Let the Buffalo roam.
Anthony Corsaro - 1:00:55
Beautiful. Thanks so much Phil. Really appreciate it, man.
Phil Graves - 1:00:58
Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it, Jens.
Anthony Corsaro - 1:01:05
For show notes and more information on our guests and what we discussed on the show, check out our website regen-brands.com that is regen-brands.com. You can also check out our YouTube channel, Regen Brands Podcast for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a 5 star rating on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe to future episodes. Thanks so much for tuning into The ReGen Brands Podcast, brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures. We hope you learned something new in this episode and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, and your dollars to help us build a better and more legitimate food system. Love you guys.