#25 - Hoda Mohajerani @ Chakra Chai

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #25 - A CPG Based On Consciousness - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 0:00:16
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers, operators, and investors to learn about the consumer brands supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my cohost, AC. Who Is going to take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:00:33
On this episode, we have Hoda Mohajerani, who is the founder and CEO at Chakra Chai. Chakra Chai is supporting regenerative agriculture with its alchemical truffles and superfood elixirs that activate and nourish the seven chakras of the body with formulas rooted in Ayurvedic medicine. In this episode, we learn about the consciousness behind Chakra Chai's products. Hoda's spiritual and personal journey that led to the creation of the company and how we need to dig deeper into the word regenerative and think about fundamentally shifting from existing extractive systems. Hoda is an amazing human being and we were so blessed to spend this time with her. She is a poet and a philosopher and a great friend who brought authenticity, transparency, humility and a heart centered vision for the future. We're so excited to share this episode with you all. Here we go.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:00:55
What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. We are fired up today to have our friend Hoda from Chakra Chai with us. So welcome Hoda.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:01:32
Hi, Anthony. Hi, Kyle. I'm really grateful to be here. It's great to see you guys again.

Kyle Krull - 0:01:38
We are very grateful to have you. It's great to see you again as well, you know, and it's Chakra Chai, you know, I briefly met you at Expo West and we had what I would call a brief yet relatively like profound experience for me. And we can dive into that a little bit later. But you know, for those who are not familiar with the brand, give us a brief overview of like what sort of products you make, like what are the skews and product lines that you have and where can people find your products today?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:02:06
OK, so we have created 2 product ranges thus far, which are based on the chakra system. So in each product range we actually have 7 skews. And that each one relates to a different chakra. For those people who don't know what a chakra is, it's a Sanskrit word that means wheel and it references the spinning wheels of the energetic centers in the subtle body of the human being and also in nature and in modern day medicine and investigations into the chakras and into Ayurveda, which is the oldest form of medicine coming from India. About 5000 year old wisdom tradition, they've discovered that a lot of the aspects in of the chakras as they were described by the sadhus, the holy Men of India, and the original Ayurvedic Medicine medicine practitioners. A lot of those aspects correlate with the endocrine system. And so we spent nearly three years in R&D with third generation fujarati arveda practitioner to create 7 elixirs and seven, if you will, medicinal snacks that are sweetened with raw regenerative honey. And when you ingest these, you know the old expression, food is medicine. We'd like to say Chakra Chai's medicine is food.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:03:09
We've tried to formulate everything in such a way where there will be the delight and the enjoyment of eating it, but it is actually addressing deeper issues, both physiological and energetic. And you can purchase Chakra Chai, we would recommend online of course. And we do have several channel partners in California right now, including the good Earth and Elroy's in Monterey.

Kyle Krull - 0:04:08
Incredible. And can you give us the brief you mentioned? There's seven different skews in each range. What are the different skews? How? What do you call them?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:04:14
So we start. We start with the 1st through to the 7th chakra, so from the PERENNIUM through to the crown of the head and the skew names are root, flow, power, love, truth, insight and spirit. And we. We're quite adamant right from the beginning to actually correlate the skew names with the the greater scope or dimensions of what that skew is actually addressing. So it's interesting to see how people respond from a from an emotional place to choosing their chakra child, which is one of the exact things we wanted to do. Is to start that conversation so we're not just consuming mindlessly.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:05:09
Yeah. And Kyle and I had that experience for a standard Expo West. So I want to go right there since we're teeing that up, which is. It it was very profound. As Kyle said for me especially I think I had the root elixir because I I told you I was kind of high and just you know a little, a little up there in the clouds and I needed to I needed to to feel more grounded. You know. It was a big show a lot of energy. It was picking me up off my feet a little bit and I needed to feel very grounded and I had the elixir and probably 30-40 minutes later I mean I was I felt.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:05:16
The weight of it and not in a bad way, in a very good way, you know, to just feel centered and feel down to earth and rooted. And I know Kyle can kind of share his experience but I would love to have you I guess just speak to kind of like the the diagnosing or whatever we want to call that, the recommending of each elixir and kind of how that works and and how like a person that's never heard of this or never experienced these products. Like what should they know and what should they understand about that process?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:06:07
That's a really great question Anthony and and I'm so happy to hear that that's the experience that you had with roots because we all on the team and of course from other customers testimonials we know that it is an incredible anchoring we we anchor again within our bodies and and upon the Earth when consuming when ingesting this particular product. And it's a really excellent question in terms of how do I know which Chakra Chai is for me, right, because what we're doing essentially within the time and and culture that we find ourselves right now, we could consider this innovation, right, but only because we've lost touch with these wisdom traditions. It's not innovative if you go to India. Or if you go to Persia or any of these other cultures that have deep medicinal histories, right. But right now it's an innovation to say, Okay, we're shifting the way that we look at ourselves. So I would like our customers to ask what is it that I need support with right now? Yeah. And then, for example, the first thing that pops up for somebody might be.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:07:01
Oh, I really need support with focus and memory, right. Then we'd like them to ask themselves a second consideration question. Why do I think or feel my memory is actually compromised or my focus ability to focus or being scattered or jittery or any of those things. You know, why is that? And to go one little level deeper and in my communication with customers, I found that.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:07:28
Using that example about memory and focus that they will, for example, I'll ask them a few questions. Turns out they just moved home, they just changed jobs and their job hours are completely different. So now they're totally overdosing on coffee and. So what's happening is that they're unrouted, they're destabilized, and their adrenals are really pushed to the Max, right? So instead of giving them the the insight, which is for the agnea, the the 6th chakra, the third eye chakra, pineal gland, memory, focus, cognition, all of that, I will give them the first chakra.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:08:15
Root and I'll give them the 7th chakra, which is for the hypothalamus that controls the parasympathetic nervous system and gives a sense of global calm and stillness, using blue Lotus flower essence, for example. So, so they'll they'll root to rise, they'll be, you know, they'll be held from from beneath and and embraced or or shielded from above and that container. Allows for them to actually function better with regards to their memory, right? By the way, in parentheses, this is a nightmare. Company and product line for typical CPG.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:09:25
Yeah, this ain't a potato.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:09:27
Chip, this ain't a potato chip. This isn't like, you know, potato trip with reishi. This is. Yeah. Let's talk about who you are and what you need because the food industry and the food service and. The whole system has to be in service to humans and planets, and if we're not, then we're not doing our job. So yeah, so we have certain consideration questions and then we also urge people to, for example, either try a single from our website or if they drop into good earth and Mill Valley or Fairfax or any of these stores. That they either try a single or they try a trio pack, because we've actually done constellations where you have the 17 hearts combo they're always acts with. The Axis is always the heart, which is the connecting point between the upper chakras and the lower chakras. So we we ask people to try them and we also ask people to please reach out to us because we're still a small enough company where we can really drop in with you and and be able to answer any questions you may have.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:10:36
Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 0:10:37
That's incredible. You, you mentioned the second question, what did you call it again like the, the, what was the type of?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:10:44
Consideration.

Kyle Krull - 0:10:45
Consideration, yeah, the consideration question, the fact that just it's so the opposite. Of Western medicine where we're looking to just treat whatever's going on. So you mentioned, you know, focus and memory instead of just providing that immediately said, well, what's causing that issue to begin with and address that rather than just try to solve this problem that we think we're going to solve when really we're probably not. So I think.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:11:10
That's such a thank you called. That's such an important point because you know and I have believed me in my cabinet I have vitamin CI have zinc you know these supplements and and but. The issue with functional food, right, is that it is the lesser of the two evils or the better derivative of a system that's in and of itself is flawed, right? So, you know, food as fuel. Fuel for what? We're not a goddamn car. We're not supposed to be, you know, like, feel to just wake up. Repeat.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:11:23
The grind carry on. Make sure that you're still looking young and beautiful and you live to be 100 years. I mean, when we even talk about longevity with regards to functional foods, it's So what? So that you can live another extra 100 years and keep repeating the same mistakes and not know who you are or why you're here. So.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:11:52
It's an allopathic symptomatic approach that is coming from an essentially flawed system. So now if we talk about systems change, we can talk about it using the vehicle of 1 Little Truffle, 1 little lelexier. Yeah, this is, this is the vehicle through which we're going to bring up these questions and open them up and say let's address the real underlying issues, both within the individual and within the collective.

Kyle Krull - 0:12:40
I'm trying to stay on track. Yeah, there's too much I want to like talk about right now. The analogy with fuel. And like we're not a car, I think is so spot on. You know, the human body. And I could be completely wrong here, but I think it's like all the cells change over every seven years. So if we consider like fuel in a vehicle is just moving the vehicle forward, it's not rebuilding the engineer, the tires or the the body or anything like that. Whereas the food we consume, we're literally rebuilding our bodies with what we consume. Serious spot on. We are not consuming fuel. We are consuming, you know, food that makes us who we are. So I just really resonated with that statement you made, but I want to take it back. You mentioned like the the ability to go deep with your customers and I want to share my experience I had with you at Expo West. And for those who aren't watching, I think most of our, our listeners are listening. Hoda has an energy about her and Expo W is a massive food show.

Kyle Krull - 0:13:08
And there's a ton of things going on all at the same time. And I was actually at a booth across the way from Chakra Chai. And somebody's like, oh, you gotta go meet Hoda. I was like, OK, cool. And I go to meet Hoda and Big hug immediately. And it was almost like everything else, just kind of like went out of focus. And it was just she and I in that moment. And I think she's, she's like heavy traffic. And I was like, Oh yeah, you know, I, I maybe tried one, but, like, I'd like, I'd like to try another one. Like, tell me about these. And Hoda, you put your hands on both my shoulders.

Kyle Krull - 0:13:35
And you looked at me and you almost felt like you were looking through me and you said what do you need for? How are, how are you feeling? There's something to that effect. And I was like, whoa, this is like getting really deep, really quick. And I said, you know, in I think it was about 30-40 minutes from that moment. I was giving a talk to a number of folks in the regenerative space and I was a little bit nervous about giving that talk. And I said, you know, I'm feeling a little bit nervous about this talk I'm going to give. And you said are you nervous in your head or in your heart? And that was that second question we talked about.

Kyle Krull - 0:14:05
And I said, I feel like I'm nervous in my heart, like I feel like there's a lot riding on this. I want to make sure I do well, you know, not just for me, but for what we're trying to achieve. And you gave me the truth elixir, and I saved it until about 30 minutes before the talk started. And I drank it and I felt fantastic. I think there was like a hint of mint in there, if memory serves correct. And I just felt like a sense of clarity. And I feel like I performed well during the talk and I was able to articulate well and make the points I wanted to make.

Kyle Krull - 0:14:34
And I really do feel like that moment like had an impact on my performance during that that moment. So wanted to share that with you and everybody else.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:15:12
Wow. My God, thank you. I think I if I remember correctly I gave you a little sample cup of love and said here knock this back and then I gave you the truth to take with you and and you are right it have I mean just first of all just hearing. Hearing you say that and hearing any of our customers and any of our friends reflect their experience back to us is priceless. Absolutely priceless. Because we're, you know, time and again, even like we ourselves on the team, think what the hell did we do here? You know, how did this, is it like, is it, are we all high on our own supply or is this really working or is it, you know, and even if it's placebo, like who cares at this point? People are getting better, you know, but so, so that's so meaningful for me. And yes, you're right. And the truth we have, we have mint, peppermint and frankincense.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:15:55
Because both peppermint and frankincense have been shown in clinical trials to affect and support a healthy thyroid function. And then in terms of energetics and spirituality, if you will, frankincense obviously has been used for millennia to open and clear space. Right. And Mint is also cooling and clearing like if you have congestion you can use mint and so mint essential oils. So the combination, the synergistic formulation of these two together with the regenerative volcanic soil grown cacao that we use, that's very high in polyphenols, but also very high energetically and vibrationally. And we know that cacao really supports the.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:16:47
Heart, yeah. And you have the reishi and the chaga. And so basically you're getting calmness, you're getting immunity support. You're getting heart nourishment. And then you're, you're having this opening up of the, of the Cathedral, of the throat, of the voice so that you can speak, so that you can speak your truth honestly, gently and concisely.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:17:17
So I'm glad and I'm so sorry I missed the talk though, you know, because it's so crazy. 70,000 people and it's.

Kyle Krull - 0:17:53
Just you were there.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:17:54
You have a pool. You can't do anything.

Kyle Krull - 0:17:56
Yeah. You were there. You were with me. You were. Yeah.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:17:59
Sure. A part of it. Thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:18:02
And if if folks don't want to take just colonized word for it, these products have rave reviews from Charles Eisenstein and Zach Bush. And if. If those two beings aren't very spiritually in touch and and aware of what's going on then I don't know who is. So you could take their word for it as well. Hoda you have a you have a really interesting story and the the birth of Chakra Chai is is a really deep and you know spiritual moment for you. And I want to give it the time and the reverence that it deserves and it's it's a long story but I want you just to kind of take that prompt and and take us back to where this all started and and and we'll go from there.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:18:40
Okay, thank you. So I had and lost in physical form my only child. His name is Arta. That's a RTA and that name is Avestin Persian. It means truth talking of the truth. And it was, you know, I've had a spiritual practice for over 3 decades. But the experience of of the experience of Arta, both of the presence of Arta and of his departure, really was the most radical form of illumination that I have yet received shedding light on. On myself, my ideas of identity, my place in the world and the why OK, the great why am I here? What is my purpose? What is the meaning of my life? And he took with him, he stripped the bullshit away, and in that space as.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:19:36
Burnished and and scorched as it was with the grief that a mother experiences from the loss of her child. But that space was so fertile now for the right seed to be planted. And that seed that was planted was truly the seed of love. All that remained was love, you know, and and I sat in that. Love and loss. And it was about a year later through, you know, many days and weeks of meditations and prayers and silences and a very, very deep retreat, so to speak. A year after around his birthday was very deep in meditation when he was present suddenly.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:20:34
And for any of our listeners who do practice meditation, you'll know that when there is that moment where you, you're removed enough that you're you're in just, you're in consciousness and you're conscious in consciousness and then communications can take place, right. And it's not like a a A. Ghost appearing to you, you know it's a presence, it's a vibrational frequency and Arta was present and he said the words chakra, Chai and you know, obviously this is all internal and and I was. I was so proud of my son in that moment because obviously I recognized this is such a great brand name. You know, I'm just like, you know, this year knocking this out of the park boy, you know, but I I was like well, what is this? And what, what, what am I receiving this for? Right. And and he said, this is verbatim. He said if you wish, you are permitted to move on this.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:21:47
But you don't have to, because I know you're exhausted now. I still didn't know what this is, right? Obviously I knew what chakras are. Obviously I'm being Persian. And you know, having lived a day or two on this earth, you know, I know what a Chai is, but.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:22:15
Was I supposed to open up a tea house? Was I supposed to go to a Co Packer? I didn't even know what a Co Packer was at the time, by the way. You know, I thought, you know, should I go to a factory or manufacturer and see if they can, you know, do something, you know that. So I didn't know what it was. But what I did know, and this was absolutely 100% clear, there's no effing about, excuse my French on this one. If I say yes.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:22:34
I have undertaken a responsibility, a mission that I must steward. Yeah. And I have nothing to do with it, so to speak. Right. It's like he's offering me the opportunity to be in service and.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:23:03
We don't like, I don't like that people. Nobody likes that. We might pretend we like it, but we don't. What we want is for us to feel good and for us to receive, and that's all fine. But as Ramdas said.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:23:28
It's not service if it's not inconvenient. And God only knows a CPG startup based on consciousness and regeneration can't be any more inconvenient. OK, so I I being the Crazy Horse that I am, I said I accept. And when I said I accept, that's when he said OK here and he showed me. I mean, when I say he showed me, I mean I saw on this, on the screen of that space that I was in, the spiritual aspect, the abundant sort of regenerative farming aspects, the the people that coming together, the cultural elements of it, the thing was so systemic.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:24:13
Said I was absolutely overwhelmed. And I thought, Oh my God, how am I going to do this? How am I going to do this? But, you know, it's too late. I've accepted. He's kind of like, you know, pokered me out of that. Like, he played my hand, like very, very intelligently. And I say, oh shit, OK, so I I came out of the meditation and I fell on my face in prostration and I started begging. God.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:24:40
I just said please, if this wasn't, and I've said this before on other interviews, I I read it because I'm very self analytical. I said if this wasn't just the, the, the, you know, grieving, the delusions of a grieving mother, if this was, if this really happened and you want me to do this on this scale in this way, I beg you to bring the people I need to me because I can't do it alone. I cannot do it alone and through what I can only call divine architecture. 1 by 1 the people have been constellated and we've been building this a step at a time, all the way to this moment. Every moment has led up to this moment. Now, yeah.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:25:38
So, so that's the origin story of chocolate China. I've spent the last last four years basically completely and utterly dedicated and committed to realizing this vision or die trying.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:26:23
Constellation that is. That's the word right there that you finished us out with. I mean that that's, that's, that's wild. Thank you for sharing that. I know it's, it's it's heavy.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:26:35
Thank you for receiving. It is, but it's also it is. Can I just speak to that for a second?

Anthony Corsaro - 0:26:41
Please, please. Yeah.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:26:44
It is heavy because the stuff of matter is heavy because. The tight shoe of this mortal coil is heavy. We are constantly, consciously or unconsciously, trying to transcend our own human condition. And in these moments of grace and in these moments of union, with the right. Other vibrational frequencies with the right of the humans and the right intentionalities, the most incredible beauty and right rightness is birthed, you know. And so I always say it's like, yes, it was a tragedy, but this is a triumph that was born out of tragedy. This is an opportunity that's been offered out of that, you know, and so I I urge.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:27:20
Anyone listening, don't be afraid. Please don't be afraid to lean in to the sharp points because they're only sharp and tearing away at the veils at what no longer serves us, you know, and and then you, you just become freer, more free. Yeah. So, so, yeah. I'm really, I feel, I feel rather light right now. Depth is not heavy. Depth is. You know, there's a difference, yeah.

Kyle Krull - 0:28:32
Anthony told me yesterday to make sure I got a good night of sleep because today's podcast interview was going to be at a level that we haven't really reached before. I will say that Anthony was spot on in his assessment and I'm very glad to have been able to receive your story. And just to be a part of the conversation today, so you know, thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:28:54
And I I hate to switch gears to something that's that's definitely a lower vibration but my my brain is my business brain is going there and I want to give you an opportunity to speak to this other because I think it's important which is. This has been a challenge and it's been a challenge for all the reasons we've talked about which is this is a, this is a new, you're basically creating a new category. It's a new kind of way of marketing it. It's it has different product attributes it you know you're self diagnosing, you know all these things, right. So I want you just to share some high level. Journey pieces and some some feedback to the audience of what it's been like building it and then commercially. You know what has worked, what hasn't worked, what what pieces are you looking towards the future like how has this been to just build this commercially?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:29:42
I will answer though I will attempt to answer those questions, but I'd like to just say it's not low vibration. The questions that you're asking one because I know the intention. With which you're asking these questions with me right now and that is a very high and honorable noble intention that you have and that infuses it with very high vibration. Secondly, these questions are only low vibration when we're operating from anything less than a noble intentionality because we're looking at it from an extractive perspective, OK, how could we maximally you, you, everybody. Probably listening to this and you yourselves obviously know about extractive systems and extractive economies and and you know how we've been doing things. So it has been challenging. First of all, I have a fierce fierce little team and my cofounder Sean, our days is a systems thinker. And so the two of us get on like a house on fire. We can really, you know see the 30,000 foot view and start to build.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:30:20
And it's kind of our favorite thing is actually to map out, right. So the the process of building it in terms of what does the system, what, what, what does a truly conscious regenerative business model look like and what are the outcomes that we are looking to achieve and aiming to achieve those parts have been. A wonderful process, absolutely wonderful on the ground. The process. I mean, especially because we came to market bang in the middle of COVID, right. So I mean it, it, it was it was just that's something my son didn't tell me about, you know, it's like, yeah, let's, let's see whether she's got the medal for this, you know, so look.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:31:18
Aside COVID aside, yeah, because the systems that we have put into place themselves are flawed and are extractive. Generally speaking, people have been reluctant to the the, the general people in the Consumer Packaged Goods industry, OK, have been reluctant to give Chakra Chai the time of day. Because they brush it off either as a hippie will woo and be as all these people are wearing idealistic roast tinted glasses about how the world is going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya right. And see because you know obviously economically they're they're looking to see whether the process is is it hot filled, is it cold filled? You know how much line time can we get? I understand all of these things but.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:32:17
My only response to a B&C thought or perspectives of the general industry right, is, OK, let's say all of those things are true about Chakra Chai and other brands like Chakra Chai, yes, who are innovating and disrupting and creating a new opportunity and a new category and all of that. What the fuck are you guys doing? You're rearranging, you're rearranging the goddamn chairs on the deck of the Titanic, right? OK, so. So I am actually here to say no, I'm going to call your bluff, OK?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:33:14
If you want to see me have a better profit and loss sheet, if you want to see better numbers, if you want to, then put your goddamn money where your mouth is. Don't put it in plastic meats and plastic rice and lab grown fish. Don't just as amazing and important as it is and we're working together with a regenerative farmer in golita. I know the challenges that he faces. I'm not not just on the land.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:33:31
But the financial challenges he faces, the capitalization challenges of the, the emotional and mental weight that's on him to be able to, through thick and thin, continue to work this. We generate a farm and grow the medicinal herbs. I understand we're allocating capital to the to the infrastructure, right? But again, there are multiple reasons that are not all kosher. OK. It's bigger box, it's land acquisition, it's there are lots of different elements and I'm saying please, anybody who's listening, who's a potential investor, who's a potential ally, think about where is all this product going to go, how is it going to get to the market?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:34:31
Right. How are you going to shift the the perception of the marketplace to actually want to buy regenerative, for example, let me give you one example and then I'll, you know, stop bogarting the mic. Yeah, but basically I can't remember which ingredients it was for. Now I'm trying to remember which herb it was for, but our head of supply chain and inventory who's dedicated to. Making sure that we can wear 100% organic right now, but to try and become 100% regenerative with our supply chain, right. A pound of that ingredient organic is $20.00 and a pound of that ingredient regenerative is $60.00. OK, OK. And and I will, you know I I will contact him and be reminded on which ingredients it was that he told me about. So.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:35:22
So how is that supposed to make me be able to offer a product to humans who can afford to buy the product? Yeah, right.

Kyle Krull - 0:36:03
Right.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:36:04
So we need investors and thinkers and policymakers and people who are experts in their respective fields to step up. And become the elders to bring together brands with farmers to bring together brands with policymakers to bring together the people the farms the the food makers like us, right and the ideology Transformers right and we need these elders to to to support us with that. So I don't know if that really answered your question but I do have, I have faced challenges but I I just don't you know because with us we're we know that we're being moved by another force and and then we're translating the vertical into the horizontal plane this is. A certainty for me, and it's a certainty for the people on my team. If you're only operating with the visual of the horizontal, be in this world, but do not be of it, is what I'm saying. So we're operating and we're because of that trust, because of that faith, because of that integrity. We've made it through some really close shapes as a startup.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:37:16
Yeah, a lot.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:37:47
But a lot, a lot to pull out there.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:37:49
Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:37:50
Things that resonated with me were there's so much bullshit at Expo West and we've talked about this on other episodes. It's like so hard to walk around the host show and just not want to tear boots down and get upset because it's like, if it's not, you know, we're very biased, but if it's not regenerative like what are we doing? And secondly. Within the regenerative movement, we've done an amazing job and still need to do more centering farmers and and spending so much time upstream worried about the actual land transition and the agricultural practices. But we're forgetting this whole supply chain has so many linkages and so many steps and we're not really stepping back and having a holistic conversation to solve for the whole thing at once. And the brands and especially the emerging brands are being really left out of that conversation, especially on the capital side. And sometimes I feel like we're the only one sitting over in the corner raising our hands saying what the Hell's going on with that, you know, so hopefully we can kind of continue to to raise that issue and and elevate that because it's, it's a problem and it's going to continue to be a problem until we solve it because we can't have a regenerative food system without regenerative brands, right. And then I think on the on the point about COGS, you know, I would love to see people.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:38:34
Inside the transactions that are happening put their money where their mouth is. So the financial, the financial backing is not all on the investors. And here's what I mean by that. I mean if New Hope network is all about regen like they say they are give people free booths. If if UNFI& KeHe are all about regen brands like they say they are reduce slotting fees for those brands. If Sprouts and Whole Foods and natural grocers are all about regen like they say they are, give people free end caps like these are all things that really aren't that hard to do and.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:39:01
I'm not trying to specifically call those people out because they're all doing amazing things already. I'm just saying we can and we should do more and we should do more monetarily than just lip service. Because right now what I see is I see more lip service than action. I see some action that should be applauded and be thanked for, but we need more action than just the lip service.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:39:51
I agree with you, Anthony. I and I have a question for you and Kyle. Why do you think that is?

Kyle Krull - 0:39:58
Lack of proof of concept. Is the number one reason in my opinion there has. I mean with the exception of the recent acquisition of Moonshot, there is yet to be a, you know, proof in the pudding for a regenerative brand at this stage in the game. You know, and I think with the current climate from that anything can speak better about the investment climate than I can. But with the way investment money is, I don't want to say drying up but changing and this sort of like natural food and CPG boom that has been the last 10 years. The frame of thinking for most of these investors and retailers and everybody else right now is like, OK, we're willing to take a bet on what we know is going to work. And so far like that concept hasn't been proved for a regenerative CPG brand. And I think that's one of the biggest roles we have to solve for upfront. The problem with that though is it's never going to look the same because it's not a turn and burn 5 year EC funded brands who's looking to flip and bail because you can't do that with regenerative. So it's a really complicated problem.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:41:00
So I love your response and I'd like to, if I may, unpack it just a little bit as well. So kind of like, let's work our way from the bottom to the top. So yes, turn and burn. Absolutely. It's not like that when you know that. This brings us to the question of what is regeneration, what is regenerative, OK. So when we really, you know, if it's just another buzzword that we're going to throw about and be on the regen bandwagon just like we were greenwashing, now we're region washing, OK. Rate. But that's not what it is for people like us, okay, people who are are dedicated to this way. So what is regenerative? And if we begin to understand the definitions, I'm going to go full circle. If I depending on time to get back to what that definition could be, okay, then we immediately.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:41:34
In a logical sequence, the next logical inference is that therefore we cannot do a flip, quick flip of a business that just sells because they've shown 10 times return on investments within 2 1/2 years, and then they're going to sell in five years and Bob's your uncle. OK, so we can't do that. Now we talk about proof of concept. So the proof of concept is problematic because. The context of what is regeneration? What is the definition of regeneration? What does a regenerative brand and regenerative business model look like? What does a regenerative world look like? These require systems thinking OK, and that has not been defined yet. So the proof of concept you cannot prove have that. Like you're saying that proof of concept within a context that denies the parameters for that trial.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:42:25
OK, OK. So, so, so that's not going to work. Then my essential question is why do they even want that proof of concept fear, why do the now we're getting closer because there is still a commitment on the part of the majority. To the existing system and it is based on greed and it is based on fear. And both because greed is a product of fear. And what is fear a product of fear is a product of not being able to see, not having certainty of what the the essence of existence is.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:43:23
And you know, I wrote to you in an e-mail correspondence that we were having, Anthony, that it's time for the philosophers and the thinkers and the poets to take their rightful place at the table of where we are headed in terms of the direction and the future of our planet and of our humanity and of culture. OK. So if we want to. If we want to actually still be here in 100 years and be here on a planet that is thriving of cultures and communities that are more enlightened and conscious and integrated, right. And these conditions have to be in place for it to be regenerative, because if something is in a constant state of decay and chaos and death. It can't regenerate, right. So to do that, we need to shift the way that we're looking at things. And yeah, maybe the the corporate board of Whole Foods.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:44:45
Doesn't really want to shift that. And maybe initially they will. They'll say, all right, let's give a couple of free end caps to a couple of these people because this seems to be the general boss and we have to stay ahead of the curve. So their intentionality may still not be correct. As soon as we get those end caps as an example, the conversation will start with the customers and then the customers are going to tell everybody what time it is, right. So.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:45:03
It's a it's really a systemic problem, and it requires systems change. But systems change cannot come about if we continue to use the same modes of thinking that got us into this shit show in the 1st place. So let's go back to the drawing board.

Kyle Krull - 0:45:47
Yeah. And you know what, I think it and I both have our own regenerative journeys and. We've talked about on the previous episode like our AHA moments, you know, I'm curious to know from from your perspective and in your experience and your regenerative journey, if you will, like, when did you first become aware of the concept of regeneration? Why did that become important for your business and walk us through that part of the Chakra Chai story.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:46:11
It's a good question. You know, as a as a teenager I was always. And into my 20s and 30s, I was always very politically active. And initially I started as a teenager being active with Greenpeace. Right. So I was very, very environmentally motivated. Yeah. And back in those days.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:46:17
We didn't call it medicine. We just called it acid, you know, so I, I know you didn't see this coming, but you know, you take a couple of, you know, good trips with good people in nature and you'll see. There's we we've got a situation on our hands and you know, so, so that bond just was so deep for me and I wanted to do everything I could to to save the earth, you know, and so it started very early on for me. But then you know, with the United Nations languaging around it with sustainability and we still have the United Nations. You know the SDG goals and all of that. It's.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:46:58
There was something that didn't sit right with me. So I kind of dropped out of the activism as the term sustainability started to really pick up momentum right because I and I couldn't put my finger on I wasn't quite sure why, but you know, still got.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:47:46
Corporate.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:47:47
Yeah. And I and yeah and yes basically and then I, you know, I still continue to do my little part by you know, having the CSA box, you know that I was getting and supporting farmers and going to farmers markets and all of that. And then this, this gift was gifted to to myself by ARTA and and there was this inherent mission of Rebirth essentially. And and that that rebirth led me to explore this together with my cofounder Sean. And I actually believe he was the first one who said the word regeneration and regenerative processes. And I was like, let's explore that more. Let's look at that. And then I you know that was just it was kind of like from there that's then all we did it was like consciousness regeneration consciousness regeneration consciousness regeneration and and these two are are essentially the the one is the product of the other and both of the products of love OK that's we can get into that if you will if you want but.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:48:44
That's kind of where it started with Chakra Chai. And the first discussions with Sean is we want to build something that is has the capacity to in a circular way. You know, we talk about circular economies but like, you know, cradle to cradle processes, right. Where it has like the snake eating its own tail, it's alchemical. I mean I'm, I'm also like.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:49:09
Understanding things as I'm speaking with you guys right it it is a physical embodiment chakracha is seeking to be and and and what all of us are doing yes is is the symbol of the self renewing the phoenix right for that snake. So how do we build that model and where do we cap it? Because if if we want it to be regenerative, it has to be capped. Yeah, because there are only so many, you know, even if like we do an aggregate of farmers, regenerative farmers so that we can get our supply of ashwaganda OK and we can get it with that level of potency and and. Active components and and the farms and the farmers and the land will not be depleted. OK. How many other companies are going to want to ashwaganda for their products? OK, where we all capping this because if we don't cap it, it won't be able to regenerate. Yeah. So that sort of then goes back into the into the greed aspect that we were discussing before. So that's where my regeneration sort of journey began.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:50:27
And I digressed a little bit into other aspects of it.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:51:04
I was it made me ponder on a couple of things. One I think Will Harris said on Rogan. Like Earth has a carrying capacity like it has a it has a finite like carrying capacity and we need to be like cognizant of that and like build around that, build systems that honor that. And you know kind of going back to the to the industry piece is like I think. We've done an amazing job supporting farmers and we've built entire coalition's like the re, like the kiss the ground and what they're doing to lobby.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:51:31
In the farm bill, right? Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:51:33
Right. But we haven't done that on the brand side. And those those people I mentioned earlier, they can't go do the right thing until we give them the right direction and we influence them to do so. And so I think there's just work to be done there. And I think that's exactly what we're trying to do with this podcast. I think that's exactly what Kyle's trying to do with the Regen Coalition is like. We need to tell them this is how we need you to help, and then we need to persuade them to actually do that. Right. And there's a, there's a, there's reformation and there's revolution. And we kind of need both because the existing systems are not going to go away overnight, right? So how do we, how do we reform enough to stay alive and prosper and survive or thrive whatever, you know, in the existing system? But also hold the tension of this is the aspirational goal. And we need to keep reminding ourselves to kind of push forward to that, to that North Star and I think.

Anthony Corsaro - 0:51:51
It's easier said in theory and and harder and execution, but it's what you know we're all trying to do.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:52:28
Absolutely. And as a good omen, there was a white cat that I agree with you. And look I've, I've always been very big on reform, OK? And there are. Other players aside from direct investors, right, who can really support brands when for example a brand like Chakra Chai right now we're at a really critical stage, right, with our capital runway. And so to make the decision of of you know how do I retain my talent and where do I get the budget from to sink I mean. It's normal for startups these days to be sinking 202530 KA Month on PR and marketing. You know, where do I get the budget to sink five or ten a month on marketing? Yeah. And then who are the marketing and PR companies who are like some of the other organizations that you mentioned before, Anthony, who are talking about how much they want to support etcetera, etcetera well.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:53:16
You know, just like lawyers do pro bono, we need to set up these structures where we have pro bono, so to speak, support systems in place, you know, and if we look at the indigenous communities and indigenous wisdom, both from the First Nations in in the Americas as well as from ancient. Wisdom traditions like Hinduism and Arveda and Persian Zoroastrianism, Islam, all of when you look at these other cultures, you see that there is an infrastructure in place of support that supports those who actually needs the nourishment, needs the nurturance, OK in the extractive capitalist model. Not the conscious capitalist model, but the extractive capitalist model. We support those who are already strong, okay, so, so you know, somebody's already made it and then we put more money in there or we invite them. This is something that I love about what you two are doing is because I'm a nobody.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:54:39
No, measured by that.

Kyle Krull - 0:55:07
Would never say that, yeah.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:55:08
Measured by that yardstick? Yeah, yeah. Measured by that faulty yardstick. Yeah. You know, they haven't heard of me before, but you've put me on this podcast and if you. Only we're thinking of, you know, which big names can I get onto my podcast. Then you're also thinking in extractive terms, not in actual, you know delivery of value and capturing the value and and the sharing of that. Yeah. So we don't do need those supports in order to be able to make the necessary reforms to create a hopefully sooner rather than later critical. Mass tipping point, yeah, because we really don't have that much more time. And I'm not trying to be a scaremonger or fear monger, but we really don't if we're they said, what, 60 more topsoils are left to us 60.

Kyle Krull - 0:56:07
More harvests?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:56:08
60 more harvests, 60 more summers. You know I'll be dead and gone by then, so it won't matter to me. But whoever has children. It'll matter to them, right? So we we we've got to keep doing what we're doing and and believing that amazing, incredible human beings like you will come through to unite our voices and get it out there, you know, and that our customers will continue to support us.

Kyle Krull - 0:56:41
Yeah, I really appreciate that. And. I'm not even sure how or what I'm planning to respond with my brain. I think I'm so in the moment that I'm just absorbing the conversation, which is not a bad place to be and is to Anthony's point earlier. Like as as podcasters, we sort of have a playbook where we transition and we pivot and we talk about the next topic on our, you know, agenda. And it feels like almost disingenuous. So, like, keep pushing the conversation to these new areas. So, like, what I'm supposed to do right now is to ask you so, like, what's in the future for Chopper Chai? But it just feels like such an unnatural pivot for like where the conversation has been, you know? So, but.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:57:22
Please forgive me, I have a carry on.

Kyle Krull - 0:57:27
I think, I think it's important that we understand like what is next? For chocolate, what are you planning to do next? Is it focusing on retail expansion? Is it, like you mentioned, like focusing on getting some investment capital so that you can afford to expand in retail because that's not a cheap game to play? So what's on the horizon?

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:57:43
Look, we like you. Look, this is this is this. You know they say they they say that when you're when you're raised in capital if you go to people and say I need money you'll get advice. If you if you want to get their money you have to say I'm here to ask for your advice, OK? And I'm like, listen, fuck that. I'm sorry. I just can't do this anymore, OK? I cannot do it anymore. I can't like you. Like, you can't ask the next question without it being inauthentic, you know, unless you do it as authentically as you just did, right? Look, I literally can't. I can't carry on. The revenue is not enough. I'm going to be transparent about it.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:58:01
Am I the best CEO in the world? My team thinks so, but my P&L sheet doesn't. I don't. I need, you know what I need? I'll tell you what. What's in the future for Chakra Chai in a minute, but what I need right now is.

Kyle Krull - 0:58:45
You need an elixir.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:58:47
I need an elixir. I need for people who come to the table and say. I know how to do this better. Will you please allow me to? Will you let me help you? I don't need shoulder woulder cooters. I don't need somebody to tell me how the right way to do it is and then disappear. I need people who will say, because that's all ego. I I'm. I'll be the first to say I am learning. I am teachable.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:58:56
I want to be able to do better. My team wants to be able to do better. We want to become better stewards and with more Sabo affair to take this enterprise, take this ship to where it's meant to go. Who is out there, who is willing to share their expertise with us? Who is out there who's willing to, you know, share their not only fiscal.

Hoda Mohajerani - 0:59:25
Monetary capital resources, but their intelligence resources, their experiential resources, their network resources in order for us to be able to move forward, right? That's what we need right now. What's in the future of Chakra Chai? I don't need to be positious, but whatever God has willed. Okay, if you want me to tell you that we're going to be and all of the major stores where we're perfectly positioned, whether that be air one or whether that be, you know, Bristol farms or that we're going to open up our own experiential retail stores so that people can come in and have that entire full body mind, soul experience. I can tell you all of that and all of that may be true.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:00:20
If it be thy will, as Leonard Cohen said, you know and I really, truly, and I'm not an evangelist in the in that sense, but God has to be brought, brought back into the conversation because honestly, the future is now. Every day when I wake up, it's the future of Chakra Chai. And I'm doing the best that I can, and my team are doing the best that they can every single day. We're paving the way for whatever that future is. Hopefully, we're enacting divine will in our in our actions, and we're calling other people who are moved from that place to exact change for good.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:01:15
In the world to connect with us.

Kyle Krull - 1:01:50
Not at all. Again, not not the answer I was expecting, but in the best way possible, you know.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:01:58
Look, you, you have had some really prolific guests and you will continue to have some really prolific guests on your show because your show, your podcast, is going to continue to grow as this movement continues to gain momentum. And the necessity of what we're doing becomes more and more apparent. Yeah. And I, I you have all of my goodwill and energy for that and for the future of ReGen Brands Podcast. Yeah. And honestly, as much respect as I have for the people who have an immense amount of.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:02:13
Information and knowledge and facts and scientific data points and all of this. OK, it's time that we come from a different a different organ, a different super sophisticated machine, if you will, or intelligence within our beings. And that's the intelligence of the heart and. When, you know, people talk about heart centered business all the time or heart centered company culture, yeah. And if you really invite them to go and deep into the journey of the heart, they piss their pants. So we need to, we need to bring it to the. I'm literally like that's all I'm going to do, whether I end up being successful.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:03:09
You know having a successful business whatever that's my job is to my role here is to say if you want to if we want to see the outcomes and the desirable futures for ourselves, for our children, for the planet, we have to go to the heart of the matter. And there is no way to go to the heart of the matter other than through the heart and into the heart and then operate from that place out and. If that means that it kind of fucks with your trigger questions on your podcast, and so be it.

Kyle Krull - 1:04:12
I love it. I appreciate it. I.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:04:14
Do. I've been on another podcast and and and. Uh, Stephanie reached out to me afterwards. She said. I kept trying to get you to go somewhere where you wouldn't go. You just go there. So. But please ask me, because I will do my best to answer as as best as I can. Whatever.

Anthony Corsaro - 1:04:35
We don't need you to go anywhere. We don't need you to go anywhere other than exactly where we went. I mean the the transparency and the humility and the vision are unmatched and so accepted and so appreciated and just, you know. The the last question we wrap with is how do we scale regenerative brands and you just answered it and it's, it's acting from the heart and it's exactly what we needed you to say and exactly what we needed to hear. And hopefully you know more people can tap into that because that's definitely been a big part for me and if we don't change hearts and minds and hearts is first for a reason, then you know we're not going to get any of this done.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:05:18
Well, set that drops very deeply in mine, Anthony.

Anthony Corsaro - 1:05:25
Yeah. Love you, Hoda. Thanks for joining.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:05:26
Us. I love you guys so much. When can I hug you both?

Kyle Krull - 1:05:31
Hopefully before next Expo West.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:05:34
Good God, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. So it's been a real pleasure.

Kyle Krull - 1:05:42
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing everything you shared and you know. I'll add one additional adjective to Anthony's list is the the level of authenticity. Today struck me as it just struck me in a very positive way and I appreciate that.

Hoda Mohajerani - 1:05:57
Thank you.

Anthony Corsaro - 1:06:01
For show notes, episode transcripts, and more information on our guests and what we discussed on the show, check out our website regen-brands.com. That is regen-brands.com. You can also find our regen recaps on the website. Regen recaps take less than 5 minutes to read and cover all the key points of the full hour long conversations. You can check out our YouTube channel, ReGen Brands Podcast for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a 5-star rating on your favorite podcast platform. Subscribe to future episodes and share the show with your friends. Thanks for tuning into The ReGen Brands Podcast brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures.

Anthony Corsaro - 1:06:14
We hope you learned something new in this episode and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system. Love you, guys.