#36 - Susan Buckwalter @ Recoup

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #36 - Next-Gen Regen Hydration - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 00:00:15
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers, operators and investors to learn about the consumer brands supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host Kyle, joined by my co-host, AC, who's going to take us into the episode. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:32
On this episode, we have Susan Buckwalter who is one of the co-founders of Recoup. Recoup is an all natural ginger powered hydration beverage with regenerative organic maple water as its lead ingredient. And Recoup is the first beverage brand to be regenerative organic certified across its entire product portfolio. In this episode, we learn about Susan's co-founder Siwat and the homemade health remedies that inspired Recoup's creation. Susan spends time teaching us about the hydration and Wellness power combo of Maple Water and Ginger. Plus, we take a deep dive into all things, branding, marketing and merchandizing for not only recoups products but for regenerative brands at large. This was a super fun episode with Susan Y'all and we hope you enjoy it as much as I'm about to enjoy a lemon lime flavored Recoup. Let's go. What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:14
Super excited today to have Susan from Recoup joining us. So welcome, Susan. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:01:33
Hi, good morning. 

Kyle Krull - 00:01:36
Good morning. It's great to have you on. Uh I was lucky enough to recently try Recoup for the first time. Um Thanks to you, Susan. Um and it's a fantastic product. So we're looking forward to learning more about it and sharing that story with the audience. Um So for those who are unfamiliar with Recoup, give us a quick high level like lay of the land. What do you produce? Why do you make it? Uh where can people find it today? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:01:57
Sure. We have an organic hydration and health beverage, which has a clinically proven dose of ginger that supports muscle recovery, digestion and immunity. So a great beverage to drink after a workout, first thing in the morning to kind of get you back at your best self. And we're three flavors right now. So they all have ginger but watermelon blood orange, pineapple, coconut and lemon lime and those are available on, on Amazon. We have a variety pack as well as our individual flavors on uh Amazon Prime. And then we're in over 100 stores in the New York metro area and in several places out west where I am right now. So we're, we're bicoastal, which is what, what all the cool kids are these days. 

Kyle Krull - 00:02:41
Nice. Um Two things I want to follow up on there. One watermelon blood orange is fantastic. Um It's my favorite out of the three. Um and then two, you mentioned the clinical dose of ginger. I'm curious, you know, what is a clinical dose of ginger? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:02:58
Sure. Um So ginger is one of those ingredients that most people know like, oh, ginger is good for me. But there's actually there are over 100 medical studies on the benefits of ginger and it ranges from post workout, muscle recovery. So uh delayed onset muscle soreness if you're aware, um, ginger helps alleviate doms. Yes. Um, help with, with nausea, um, pregnancy related nausea, surgery, chemo related nausea, um, and sort of digestion in general and helping your, your body process what you eat. Um So there's a really a range of benefits and most of the studies use around two teaspoons of, of pressed ginger juice or an equivalent that's, you know, dried powder or something like that. Um And so we use that amount and one of the cool things about ginger is that when you heat it, it doesn't denature, it's not like a fruit juice that, you know, you lose the flavor and you lose the nutrients, the properties in ginger, which are ginger ales and are actually, um, more potent when they're heated and they, they, you know, turn into a different form of the molecule, um, that has just as many if not additional benefits. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:03:45
So we flash heat the product to, um, you know, to sterilize it. And in the process, we don't compromise the ginger at all. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:19
Yeah, that's, that's super cool. I mean, wow, we could spend a lot of time on that. I feel like I, I went through a little ginger ginger era myself where I was making like a ginger based stir fry for like a year straight for lunch and dinner because it is amazing. I am personally a lemon lime guy. Um The blood orange is, is phenomenal as well. But lemon lime is my favorite because we used to have lemon lime Gatorade when I was growing up all the time and I love that flavor. And this to me was like the better version of that, right? 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:38
It tasted amazing but I didn't feel like shit afterwards like I probably used to with the lemon lime Gatorade. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:04:55
Yeah, that's the thing. I mean if you go do a yoga session or you know a a nice workout, you don't want to fill your body with 27 g of sugar afterwards. So having something that's no added sugar and organic is just feels so much better. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:05:11
Mhm And we, we know that the the origin story is a deeply personal one for C A. We bump he couldn't join us. Uh but we know you can, you can step in and hopefully share that with the our crew, Susan of just what what happened with Siwat you know, journey and why did this beverage, you know come about? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:05:27
Of course. Yeah. Um so really incredible story and, and that's one of the things when I met Siwat, endeared me to him and, and really gave me an insight into how passionate he was about this. So he spent the first three years of his life in the hospital. Um he had 10 major surgeries before he was 12 years old. And so he was very much a kid who was kind of always going through something and always going through, um needing recovery. And his mother is, is Thai, they moved to the States and had him and would make these ginger based home remedies. And so when he was as little and when he was, you know, sort of as he was growing up and going through these surgeries including open heart surgery, um, he would have these ginger recipes afterwards and, and they help with his digestion and actually with the kind of muscle soreness and, and aches of, of going through surgery and coming out of that. So that was always a big part of his journey and his uh recovery, he actually went on, he got, he's so impressive. He got a master's in physiology, um in, from Columbia. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:06:23
And he was working in the same hospital that he grew up in a New York Presbyterian Hospital and, and working with kids and with heart and lung disease. I know, uh it gives me chills. Um Yeah, and, and he was thinking like, I wish I could take my mom's recipe and help, help these kids with some of the, the issues that they're going through that I went through as well. Um And so he always had it in the back of his mind. He ended up going on and getting his M B A from Cornell and then, um, was working at a health care startup accelerator and, and was in the startup world, had, had started some things and thought, you know, this, this would be really incredible if I could bring this product to market. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:07:02
So that's when I met him, that's what he was doing. He had created it in his home. He, he, you know, bought a juicer, he did 20 different recipes and invited friends over to try them and, you know, from their kind of workshop down to a few recipes was getting it produced in a, in a small commercial kitchen and was selling it just trying to, trying to focus on hospitals. But as he was going around and selling it, you know, his friends were like, hey, can I, can I get some of that? We're, we're gonna buy it. Uh And he realized there was, there was a broader appeal. 

Kyle Krull - 00:07:51
Yeah. And as somebody who has spent some time in hospitals and been in chemo centers, I know that the food that they serve there isn't necessarily like cutting edge innovation for health, right? Uh In fact, it's ironically quite the opposite. Um I, I know my time in chemo centers, I wish they would have had products like Recoup there because instead they have apples wrapped in plastic uh chips of Hoy like Nabisco Nestle, you know, all, all the worst food you can imagine, which is insane. So I really just want to call that out and you know, give a credit for what he was trying to accomplish. And at the same time, acknowledge the uphill battle, he was trying to fight, you know, because it is not an easy place to, to build a brand. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:08:34
And that's, and that's what we learned. And so when I met him, um so I went to Cornell as well for my M B A, but we were in different programs. And so a mutual friend connected us and said, yeah, this guy's got a great product, he could use some branding help. Um And that was my background. I was working in Unilever and, and eos products and in the branding and innovation space. And so I met with him a few times and just, you know, it was, it was a great product but the the market wasn't the right target. Um just in terms of being able to scale and being able to reach that consumer. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:08:56
I mean, you can't advertise on Facebook to people going through some of those medical issues. Like that's a, that's private information, right? So it's a hard market to target, it's hard to get through hospitals which have just low cost requirements. Um And so we decided this is, this is great for everybody. I mean, there's, there's tons of research for ginger on, on benefiting athletes be fitting everyday people. So let's make this broader and hopefully the people who need it for those serious medical reasons can still get it. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:09:22
Now, they'll be able to get it more easily because it'll be everywhere. Um And so we worked on kind of redefining the brand a little bit, moving from what he had was a refrigerated product to a shelf stable product which enables us to again scale much more easily. And um and so we kind of worked through, through that together. 

Kyle Krull - 00:10:00
What I'm curious, you know, from when you, when you first met, see what, what was the reason that number one, the connection was made, you mentioned the branding. But like, why did you really feel like this was something you wanted to be involved with? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:10:11
So for me, I had been uh after business school, I did innovation at Unilever um along with some other brand roles. So I was a brand manager at Unilever and then a brand manager at us products. But before business school, I had actually run an outdoor retreat center for the Y MC A. So I had very much been in the kind of wellness fitness space, working for a nonprofit, uh you know, very passionate about what I was doing and I loved the work I did in, in kind of the big corporate C P G but it's different. Um So the idea of me going to a startup is not crazy and, and was very much like something that I could have, could have predicted a while ago. Um And so I wanted to work on something that I was, you know, really able to mold and, and, and have control over all the different pieces and build the brand and build the formulas. I love that part of it. Um from a creative side and then just from a, a passion side, being able to create something that helps people feel better and has a positive impact was so personal for me. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:11:03
Um I was a college athlete, I did the, uh the women's decathlon, so I did seven track and field events and so I had shin splints for like years. Uh um so I loved high jump and javelin, but high jump has my heart for sure. Yeah. Um So I was always, I was always 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:38
training, oh 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:11:40
my goodness. Yeah, we all the jumpers, we just had ice packs taped to tap to our shins all the time. Um And I, I actually, I got an ulcer when I was 20 from taking too much Ibuprofen. Um because that's, you know, the, the trainers was oh 8 800 mg a day or whatever it was. And so when I learn the benefits of Ginger, 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:12:05
try adding a one to that I was on 1800 mg a day when I played college football of Ibuprofen. Oh, my goodness. And I, and I was on antibiotics every day for a different thing so that I can totally relate to that sidebar. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:12:17
Wow. Yeah. Um, it's, it's crazy what they put kids through college kids. 

Kyle Krull - 00:12:24
It's just so shortsighted, you know, go for the immediate fix with no thinking about the long term consequences of, you know, what you're actually doing to your body, which is crazy. Um, again, sidebar, but just blowing my mind that you two both have been through that experience. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:12:38
Um Well, that, that was when I, I learned about, I learned later about the benefits of ginger as an anti-inflammatory. And so that was also really appealing to me coming from, you know, I'm still an athlete, I'm not quite the same level but I kite for and I surf and I do, I do all sorts of stuff. So I'm still sore a lot. Um And to have ginger as a, a remedy instead of, you know, reaching for Ibuprofen all the time was also really interesting to me. So there were, there were a few different pieces that were coming together. There was my desire to do something that was, you know, really passion driven and personal. There was my background in, in fitness and wellness and athletics and then, uh just meeting and feeling like this is someone that I trust. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:13:09
Um, as a good person and is going to do the right thing and he's got something really cool that I see great potential with. And so those all came together at a time in my life where I was ready to, to take a leap and try something different. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:41
What Susan, this, this to me seems like a very masculine framed category, right? When I think about sports beverages or, or hydration beverages and it also seems like a category where we've, we've convinced the majority of consumers that these beverages are healthy when most of them are not. So, you know, talk about like, what is that core consumer for y'all? How are y'all different? How are you communicating that? I mean, that's gotta be an uphill battle with some of these very large entrenched, you know, I would say competitors of, of the beverage that y'all are bringing to market. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:14:12
It is a very broy category. My first bev net was 90% guys. I mean, it was just, there weren't even women in the industry and any, any distributor, any, you know, most, most of the buyers. It's, it's guys, right? And it's a lot of the distributors especially are, are guys in their fifties sixties plus and so they're like, oh ginger, I, I have that with sushi sometimes and you're sort of trying to educate that like, oh, your daughter puts it in her smoothie. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so at least they, you 

Kyle Krull - 00:14:53
know, so I guess that's, that's good. But the second brand we've had on this is like the only real North American market that where people understand is sushi. So thank goodness sushi is introducing something good to people. Uh That's good. Sorry to interrupt. Let's get back to, you know. So how are you doing that, that differentiation within that hyper masculine category? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:15:12
Sure. So we are our primary target is a female. Um It's a, you know, wellness, fitness, mind and millennial and obviously Gen Gen Z uh creeping up into being more and more engaged in this category and more important. Um We're focusing on that as well, but that's where we, we target the kind of the boutique fitness world, the, the yoga Pilates, the people who are spending $40 on a fitness class or, or $25 and are really investing in health and wellness. And what we see is actually millennial women are driving the functional beverage category because they're looking for more benefits. Um And so there's I I I should pull up my statistics before I start quoting them. But um I just, I did a deck recently for a retailer. Um, it's, it's a, a huge growing category, uh or driver for beverage and it's an area that I, as you mentioned is sort of underserved and is ignored by a lot of these, you know, hyper masculine brands that are coming out. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:16:00
Um So she is out there, she's looking for something that's natural or organic that doesn't have added sugar. Um, and for a lot of time the beverage industry has been saying, oh, women you care about calories. So we'll give you a zero calorie version of whatever it is. Uh, like, you know, Gatorade, uh, for Gator Light or Gatorade. G for women. And, yeah, and it's, it's basically more chemicals. So, oh, we've, we've given her zero calories but not through anything good. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:16:33
Um So what we saw is most women who are athletes and who are engaged, they know you need a little bit of, of calories and natural sugars to help with the hydration process that actually can help open the the cell barrier. And so, you know, she's not looking for zero, she's looking for something that's, that's healthy and doesn't have a bunch of added stuff. And so that's what we're we're offering is really a, a better for you version in this category that goes beyond hydration to deliver health benefits with the ginger. 

Kyle Krull - 00:17:19
Yeah, I mean, it's really cool and I wanna make two comments and ask one question. Um Number one, I really appreciate the way you're talking about your target consumer as a hurt. You just saying like her. Um And I don't think I've heard anybody on the podcast so far like no, the, the way you're talking about it, it feels really personal and very intentional, which is just really interesting part two, like as you're describing this consumer. I'm having a really difficult time imagining, you know, this well intentioned Yogi walking out of a really nice studio with like a Glacier Freeze Gatorade, you know, like that picture just doesn't fit. So to your point, it really does feel like uh sending the brand that direction and targeting that consumer is a really great idea because to your point like that is a growing audience and I don't anticipate that's gonna change at all. Um Part three. Yeah, it's massive um ReGen Brands Podcast. How does the regenerative piece fit into all of this? When did that become a priority for Recoup? And how are you telling that part of this story? 

Kyle Krull - 00:18:06
Good 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:17
question. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:18:18
Sure. Um And that's, you know, what we find is, is this consumer is on the leading edge of knowing about, you know, what's, what's healthy and what's good for you and what's good for the world. And so I think I'm sure this your audience and, and you know, that regenerative, still building a lot of understanding and, and force in, in the ecosystem, right? People are still kind of trying to wrap around their, their heads around. What exactly does it mean? What's the standard over here versus what's the standard over there? But what we find is, is our consumer is starting to perk up when she hears regenerative. She's looking for that. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:18:48
Um maybe not as a primary decision driver, but, but it's on the list and it's going to help move the needle um when she sees it. And so for us, we, we made organic a priority last year. So we had a natural formula. We're actually like 85% organic. So we're on the road, but we didn't, we didn't have it fully organic until last year. We reformulated and we came out with our organic version. Um in doing that, we became aware that actually our primary ingredient, Maple Tree water is this amazing renewable uh regenerative ingredient. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:19:17
And our supplier was actually, you know, regenerative organic certified. And so there was an opportunity there to take a closer look at the brand and how we move forward and actually pursue that as a certification for ourselves. Um And so it was just, it was seeing that there's a shift coming Whole Foods named Regenerative as one of the most important uh factors I think two years ago. Um So it's been flagged by the industry. It's still growing in terms of, of how buyers care about it or, or what, where they rank it. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:20:08
But we want to be on the, on the leading edge of that because we think it's the right thing to do for the planet and we think that the people that we serve and we care about the most are going to start to look for that. Hm 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:28
This, this whole conversation gets me so excited for so many reasons. Um And I'm not, I'm not on tiktok yet. But I know there's this trend where like it's like blank girly, like I'm a blank girlie and you kind of insert like the health and wellness trend in front of that. Like that's in that younger female demo. And there, there's just such a burgeoning I think, appetite for a product like y'all and we have to find a way to connect that to regenerative, which we have not done yet, right? So like inside our echo chamber, inside our bubble inside the the community that kind of already gets it. We all talk about it. But I that's what we're trying to do with the podcast. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:55
And these other kind of initiatives is, you know, kiss the ground, just put out their research that they surveyed 100 1100 people and like 4% understood the significance of regenerative agriculture, right? But like 50 plus 70% I forget a large majority wanted to buy sustainably, they wanted to support the environment, but they weren't connecting that with those desires around environmental health, personal health. And that's basically what this whole coalition of brands has the opportunity to do. Um How are y'all doing that, Susan, how are you activating that at retail? How are you activating it on social? I mean, how are you telling that story? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:21:39
So we're still early in our journey. Uh So I can't say that we're the the shining example of, of how to tell the story. But we are, what we're doing is is starting the conversation with retailers um for some retailers, I think it actually has been a door opener and I don't, it's hard to get cross category activation. So the dream would be sure to get a bunch of regenerative brands together. I coming from working on Dove and having this mega brand with multiple categories. It was hard for Dove to do it and they, they own aisles. Um So I don't know if that's the way that we're going to get it to, to happen. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:22:07
But whether it's signage with individual products or whether it's, you know, small groupings in a category. Um I think there's an opportunity to get retailers to tell the story. A little bit more white men, for instance, has a regenerative organic farm that they run. Um And that's sort of, it's separate from where I think their category buying decisions make, but it shows that they're, they're in the space and they're interested. 

Kyle Krull - 00:22:49
I did not know that um like using that produce and like selling it or is it just something that it's like a for fun project? I can't imagine that's the case if we is doing it. Um 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:23:00
I don't know the scale, I think it's local in their um in one of their New York areas where, where they are headquartered. Um And so they, they just have one right now, I think, but, but maybe there's a plan to have them, you know, in every region. Um I'm not sure, but it shows that they're, they're, they're acknowledging the space and they're getting involved in the space which is, which is important. Um And so I think for us, it's a matter of as we, as we build our brand telling that story along the way, seeing if we can get signage, if we can um try to bring that together in terms in terms of weaving the story for retailers and then to consumers. Um And then for us, it's also people understand regenerative in different ways. And so whether you talk to them about uh pollinators and the importance of, of bees and butterflies and, and having, you know, pollinators survive and thrive in the wild. They are people starting to get that conversation. And so linking it to regenerative can be a way to, to deepen the understanding and build the narrative. And that's one of the things that we've done with our pro pollinator stance. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:24:01
So we actually removed honey uh last year and we have done um some donations to build and to rebuild uh habitats for pollinators. So that's a part of our mission. 

Kyle Krull - 00:24:31
That's really cool and interesting. I wanna dive deeper into the honey piece. But before we go there, I want to acknowledge one of the things you mentioned about signage, Anthony that I couldn't help but smirk because that is a grin initiative that is very near and dear to our hearts. Um Something that we are actively working on behind the scenes and we feel like it's a critically important piece for consumer awareness that does not exist today for regenerative agriculture. So it's something we're really trying to solve. So I couldn't agree with you more there. Um Part two, Anthony hates it when I do this because I get really into like, what is the regenerative aspect of the product? Um I wanna learn more about maple water how and why that's regenerative and the benefits of maple water and why? That's your number one ingredient? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:25:10
Sure. Um Maple water is another really incredible ingredient. Um So maple water and Ginger are kind of the two heroes of our product. Uh But basically, when you tap the trees to make maple syrup, what comes out is uh sap, but it's the naturally filtered plant based water. And if you take that, it has 46 bioactivity, minerals, nutrients, amino acids. It has electrolytes and it's incredibly hydrating. Um There's actually research that it hydrates twice as fast as tap water. And so just maple tree water is, is an incredible ingredient on that when 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:25:49
you tap the tree. Like, so I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of sap. I'm thinking of maple syrup and I'm thinking of maple water does. Is there like a resin that comes out that turns into all those different things or are you tapping the tree, different places and different things come out like, what's the help? Help me here? What's 

Kyle Krull - 00:26:05
a great question. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:26:07
So what comes out is, is sap and that is, is the same as water. Um, yes. And then if you boil that down, it turns into maple syrup. And so I think I read it takes 60 gallons of sap to make one gallon of maple syrup. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:27
But when I'm thinking of sap, I'm thinking of something that's thick, like a resin, almost like not a water or are you adding water to it to make it the water or is no, is that inaccurate? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:26:37
It doesn't come out at, it doesn't come out. S A P is like a broader term. So that can mean like really sticky stuff or it can mean uh a more liquid? OK. Yeah. And 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:50
then you have water, you know, phd level education today, didn't you? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:26:55
Um And then some, some uh brands sell the byproduct of the, basically the boiling down which is like the excess water um is also sold off now in, in a more sustainable practice rather than the disposing the water. It 

Kyle Krull - 00:27:15
interesting. And is that the water that you're using there? Is that, that like, 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:27:19
no, we're the, we're using the sap which has the, the minerals and the um electrolytes. And yeah, if you boil it off, then it's just sort of like distilled water, 

Kyle Krull - 00:27:31
right? And do you have to add any other water or is that the only water sources coming from that sap, 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:27:38
we're, we're not going to go into all the formulation details of our product. Yeah, there, there's a little bit of proprietary stuff that I'm like we 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:27:49
could talk about. We understand that we understand that 

Kyle Krull - 00:27:52
not, not trying to get you where you don't want to. So thank you for drawing the line in the sand because we will just continue to ask questions all day. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:27:58
You're like, I want to make Recoup at home. Um What is the recipe? 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:28:04
The facility? Bring 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:28:06
cameras and cans. Yeah. Um but it is an incredible ingredient. And so our, our farm is certified Regenerative Organics. So they um you know, obviously follow all the practices in terms of, of uh actual farming practices, paying fair wage is uh involving the community and making sure that, that the holistic approach that require that is required for regenerative organic certification is followed. And so obviously, there are different tiers and different certifications. Regenerative Organic does focus on the social uh the individual and the, and the planet um in terms of what the, what the ethical requirements are. Mhm. 

Kyle Krull - 00:28:55
Gotcha. OK. That I'm now like, I'm, I'm bought in, I'm sold on maple water. Love that. That's the first ingredient. Um And I won't ask you any more questions about how you make it. I promise. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:10
But I was gonna, we want to give you a big congrats on first beverage line. Fully certified R O C. Correct? I want to say that's what. Yeah, so, 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:29:21
so very, very proud of that. Thank you. And we hope that that's a flag to others to uh start to look at this and, and really take it seriously. So uh we're proud to be the first brand that, that has it across our portfolio. There are some brands that Tazo T for instance, did one or two organic or regenerative organic flavors. Um But you know, for us, it's, it's an important piece of the brand and as we continue to innovate and as we launch additional versions that will be part of our brand now, so we will look to be regenerative organic certified a across uh new products as well. Mhm. 

Kyle Krull - 00:30:00
And does that sourcing go beyond the maple water? Like are you looking to source for general organic ginger and you know, other items in the supply chain? Like what does that relationship look like with all of the other ingredients? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:30:11
Um for, for right now, our obviously we we fit the criteria to to be certified. Um are we didn't change all of our suppliers for this certification? And so as we do additional rounds, we can look to see if is there a better supplier in terms of what they offer and, and how they are, um you know, what, what criteria they're meeting, but we were already organic certified. And so most of our, if not all of our suppliers were already at sort of a a very high level of, uh, standards. 

Kyle Krull - 00:30:48
Right. Yeah, you're already using such great ingredients. Well, and I mean, there's probably the, the maple water is probably such a large portion of the total volume of the product that, like, that certification carries so much weight. So that totally makes sense. Um, just wanted to see, you know, what, what it, it's one of the challenges of these certifications for multi products. Right. Like for a single grain and it's really simple. I mean, I shouldn't say it's really simple. It's still hard. 

Kyle Krull - 00:31:00
But when the entirety of the package is, one ingredient is easy for that to be R O C certified versus, you know, a 35, 10, 12 20 ingredient product, it becomes far more complex. So it's interesting to hear, I think you're one of the first super multi ingredient, I shouldn't say super multi but multi ingredient products that we've had on that has the R O C certification. So it's really interesting to hear how that works. Yeah, 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:31:38
I'm Susan, I'm curious about obviously business decision. I'm, I'm assuming on the shelf stable piece just because it reduces the logistics hurdles of needing it to be refrigerated, it extends shelf life. But I'm assuming from a merchandizing perspective, you still want this beverage merchandise in the beverage set, in the cold set, you want it to be drunk, you know, drank cold, whatever the right word is, like, talk to us about merchandizing and, and and that approach. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:32:04
Sure. And that's uh for us, it's, it's telling that story of, we live, we're, we're a hydration and health beverage. So we, we live at, at kind of a combination of points. So we don't necessarily want to be sitting next to the Gatorade, we want to be next to the kombucha and the functional beverages. Um, and, and most of our, I would say our, our consumers see that. No problem. It's ginger, it's, it's healthy, it's, it's going to do good things for me. And so they think of it in the functional beverage space, but it's explaining that to the guy who has ginger with sushi and uh you know, is, is maybe not, uh not my key target. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:32:29
So, um it's always, it's always an interesting conversation and, and trying to get the retailers to you see you in the right light. Um, mostly it's gone well, and we are in the cold case, um in, in almost all of our retailers right now, but we're still working on getting into some larger retailers. And so that will be an ongoing conversation of improving our worth and proving that we're going to move faster than the product next to us um, in order to, to get that really valuable space. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:33:18
Mhm. And I know it's still early on the journey. But when I think about a product like this, I think like influencer marketing and, and e-commerce impressions, like have a really high opportunity to move the needle like regen beef like, you know, like I don't think you can influence or market that as much as a product like this, right? So it's obviously early days. But what are y'all thinking there? What have you tried there? Like, what do you see as a brand marketing person just in that space with this product? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:33:44
Uh For sure, I'd love to go big on tiktok. Um And we are, we're, we're starting this summer, we're going to do a wave for influencer marketing activation. Um Last summer, I hired someone for it. It wasn't the best hire. Um And so I feel like we didn't get as much movement from that. Um But, you know, summer is the, the beverage season. And so that's, that's when we're going to lean into it a little bit more. We are, we are on tiktok. We don't have a huge following on tiktok, but we're, we're doing it and um and we're on obviously Instagram and, and other social channels as well, but I do see tiktok as really a, a great place for brands to be able to get a lot of eyeballs without just having to pay to play. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:34:14
Um and Facebook and Instagram have become very much, um you know, organic reach is pretty limited there. So you're paying for ads. Um So hoping that we can unlock some things with tiktok this summer with an influencer campaign that we're working on and then um we're on Amazon and so that's a nice add on too if we can um incentivize some affiliate type of relationships to drive to Amazon sales and then they get their affiliate percentage. So um that's there's, there's some great opportunity there and I'm excited to, to invest more in that space. Yeah, 

Kyle Krull - 00:35:08
I think that would be super interesting and I want to kind of bring it from there back towards retail because I mean, there's this omni channel approach these days, right? Um You had mentioned that sometimes it feels like retailers have these regenerative goals, but it doesn't necessarily reflect some of those buying decisions yet. So given you the first Rock Certified brand in functional beverage, you know, what is some of the reception been as you make these retailer presentations? What do they like about the brand? What are they nervous about? Walk us through some of those conversations you've had? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:35:37
Sure, I for me, I think the regenerative Organic Certification has helped open some doors or open some emails and, and gotten a conversation back where maybe I'd emailed that person before and and didn't hear. So um I'm grateful for that. I know that it's not going to be a make or break piece for them. Um We had a, a great retailer meeting about a month ago and, and we're revisiting that I think next month and to talk about the fall. So they're like, we love your product we think the price points, great. We wanna, we wanna hear, you know what you're going to do to drive it off the shelf. And so that's for retailers that's, that's going to be the biggest concern. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:36:08
And so that whether it's influencer marketing piece or some of the drive to store type of marketing activations that you can do, that's where we just need to prove that even though we're a small brand, we raised capital, we have some money, we can act. Um and we can push people to drive to store where we have good turn in the retailers where we're currently selling and so we can continue to drive and, and we're going to move it for you. Um So that's the biggest uh concern when it comes to, to retailers. We also because we just got certified a few months ago, some of those conversations haven't happened yet. So I don't know how they'll go, but I do think that there, there's one meeting I have coming up in July that it was my regenerative organic email that opened and got and started a conversation. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:36:54
So, you know, I think that there's, it's helping us get a foot in the door, but then it's not going to answer, it's not going to move us on the shelf. It's just going to kind of help us, help us be different and help us get noticed. 

Kyle Krull - 00:37:18
Well, I think so, this is super interesting. I don't know if you've ever had another brand at your stage who is like presented to retailers without a regenerative certification and has now been the sort of second way of revisiting with certification. And I love what I'm hearing in that you're saying it has allowed you to start some conversations that previously were closed doors, right? So I think that's a really good signal for other startup regenerative brands and two like, appreciate the fact that you're in the position you're in and kind of paving the way. Um and sharing that story with our audience, I think it's really valuable. Yeah. Mhm 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:37:52
And I I'm curious about Susan, what you you mentioned activation, right? It's beverage. This thing's got to turn to stay on shelf like that's a high, that's a high turn category. Um So two questions, one at retail, are they all being sold as singles or are y'all y'all selling any multi packs? And then two, what is the activation strategy? Is it very social heavy? Is it uh is it demoing like if it's a beverage? Like what, what do y'all think is gonna be the right plan there? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:38:19
Sure. We, we are only selling sign singles, we're not selling multi packs at this point. Um But if a retailer had an ask, I did hear uh recently from a retailer that multi packs for them at least were starting to be uh a higher source of volume. And so you'll start to see that in the bottom of the cold case, you'll start to see four packs or six packs. Um, but obviously as a newer brand, it's a bigger hurdle to get someone to buy four, right? You want, you want them to try it the first time? So uh for us being in singles is, is the way to start. Um And then in terms of how do you drive the shelf, I mean, you know, depending on what your budgets are and we're working with a an OK budget but not, not coca-cola Money. Um Yeah, startup budget. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:38:51
Um So we are, we're doing hyper local advertising and so as we get into more chain retailers really uh focused on driving this store. And so there's even agencies that you can work with and, and ads that you might have start started to see if like get a free kelp burger and you actually go, go to the store, you buy it and the brand then mows you back. Um And so there are tactics like that, that we will uh unleash when we, when we hit some of those more key chains. Um And in the meantime, we're doing, you know, hyper local ads to try to build awareness in these pockets where we're already selling. And some of that, some of those people will buy online, but then when they're in the store, they're also going to have that brand recognition and brand awareness. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:39:47
So it's, it's a little bit of a tactical spend in order to get some online sales but build awareness in our target markets. So rather than just trying to sell all over the country online, I'm trying to sell online in our key areas with the most priority smart. 

Kyle Krull - 00:40:15
And you mentioned key areas from a distribution perspective. You mentioned bi coastal is the plan to kind of focus on those markets for now or are you looking to partner in a specific channel as like you go to market strategy, what is the the distribution goal look like for Recoup? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:40:32
Sure. So we the the natural grocer uh channel is our, our top priority. That's where we're going to move the most volume. Uh We actually for us, the fitness studios is a, is a really nice strategic channel and we, we sell really well. There have great turns. It's, you know, you go to your favorite boutique studio and you trust what they curate, whether it's, you know, cool merchandise or whatever a hair product, you kind of uh take them as, as an influencer and as a a trusted um recommendation. And so to be selling in, there is a great way to build brand loyalty and, and brand awareness for us as well in addition to to making sales. So that's been a nice way to build out the brand for our key target um in a meaningful way, but it's not, it's not, we are going to sell the most. Right. 

Kyle Krull - 00:41:26
But it's a great awareness play. I'm assuming it's probably a high margin play. But I'm curious from a distribution perspective. Is that a huge hurdle? Is that all direct distribution? Are they buying from Amazon or is there some other sort of distribution network that exists to service those kind of boutique fitness places? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:41:42
We are. So, we've been self distributing in on the east coast. Um, since we started, we actually have just signed on with a, a larger distributor and we're going to their retail show next week. Um And so we will be using that to kind of help, help us uh tip into some larger chains and then also reach a broader audience. But yes, for the boutique studios, we'll likely still be self distributing or there's fair. Have you heard of fair in the marketplace? So, so some of yes, so some of our um wholesale customers that our studios buy from there. Um I don't think many have done Amazon business, but that's obviously an option as we get into places where they're beyond our reach. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:42:16
Um But right now it's sort of within, within driving distance for a or myself, um is where we have the, the studio clients. And then there are some like there's a distributor out here who who will deliver to them once we kind of unlock 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:42:46
my mind is immediately going to all these sauna places that are popping up now because I'm a big user of those. And I've lived so many places in the last three or four years and they, some of them I think, do a decent job with retail products, but I can't think of a single one and I've, I've used double digits, like, consistently now in multiple geographies across the country that sells a hydration beverage. Right. They might, they might have a water tap, they might sell a bottle of water. Um, but that, to me seems like a, seems like an underserved opportunity that might be less competitive than like a yoga studio or a gym. So I'm curious if you've thought about that one. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:43:21
I, I can't say that I'm on the sauna market as much as you. Um That's, that's cool. I'd love to, I'd love to see your list of where you've gone because yes, I obviously of all the need states walking out of a sauna is when any drink tastes the most delicious. So, um I think that'd be a great market. I did just, there's a studio out here called Breath Degrees. And they actually they're a breath work studio, but they have cold plunge and sauna as part of our, the whole um wellness routine and we, we sell really well there. Uh and they actually, they have a great online um coaching program and things like that. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:43:53
So the breath work space, the, the saa and the cold plunge, they're, they're definitely uh wellness trends that people are getting more and more into and yes, I think there's a great, great opportunity for Recoup there. I didn't know, I didn't know that, uh, Ginger actually helps with breathing as well because it helps, uh, the smooth, it helps to relax the, the smooth muscles. Um, so I was like, oh, maybe it's interesting in breathwork studios too. There's so much research. It's, it's amazing. Yeah. 

Kyle Krull - 00:44:28
Also shout out to breathwork a total sidebar But for those who haven't tried breathwork and maybe you breathwork. Curious man. Breathwork is a game changer. Um I've had some pretty incredible breathwork sessions in my life and, uh I just want to, you know, first time I popped up on the podcast, just want, want to give it its moment. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:44:44
It was, I, I went to a class. It was amazing. Um, really, really great, but I will say as a sleep deprived new mom, uh when I try to do breathwork, sometimes I just fall asleep. So I need to, I need to get, get the right routine. So I don't just take a nap. 

Kyle Krull - 00:45:02
Yeah, I have, uh I, I used to be a free diver in California and, uh I was never very good at it, but I for some reason, really enjoyed free dive training, um doing breath holds and I have multiple times falling asleep with my breath held um to wake up like gasping for air in a weird way. Um So I hear you. It's a weird thing. Body does weird stuff. Yeah, we're way off topic now though, which I, I tend to do this. Anthony get us back on track. 

Kyle Krull - 00:45:17
No, 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:27
no, this is great. This is great. Um Susan, I want to step back from the brand for a second and I'm really curious, you've worked on some iconic brands but like let's let's even take away C P G. Let's just talk like regenerative agriculture, the regenerative agriculture movement, this lack of awareness, like as a brand, expert, marketing expert, like where do you think that's at? Like what, what are we doing? Well, what are we not doing well? Like what do we need to do better? Like, I'm super curious what you think of the overall like macro environment there. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:45:57
It's, it's interesting. I was thinking obviously I wasn't around at the beginning of the organic trend um or the non GMO trend, but I imagine there would be some, some good learnings to look back at what, how, how did those uh what do you call accolades come to, to grow into right now where we have kind of USDA organic being the standard with a few other players um and multiple certification bodies and then non GMO project being the standard. And I actually don't even know what the rest of that ecosystem looks like. Um We are non GMO projects verified. Um So if we did that and then haven't looked back um but I think that. There's right now, there's obviously a very fragmented marketplace and fragmented understanding of it and even definition of what it means. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:46:47
And I think that will coalesce over time and become more clear and more defined and there will be certification agencies that rise to the top and whatever their standard is will become what people understand. But even with organic, where it's been around for a long time, I mean, when I worked on EOS this was six years ago, we have an organic line and, uh, and a, a nonorganic line and I would do focus groups with people on, on what is organic and what does it mean? The average person can't define it very well. Um, they, they're like, it's good. It means it's, it doesn't have chemicals, I think, you know, so there's still a lot of education that needs to happen. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:47:29
Um, even in these terms that we think, you know, as people who are very embedded in the industry, we sort of take for granted that, that everyone understands that. Um, most people know it's, it's good and it's more expensive but the average person doesn't necessarily define it, you know, to 22 people won't define it the same way. Um And so I think it's probably going to be a long time before regenerative agriculture has a, a very distinct understanding among the masses. Um I think what we'll see is people who are engaged in the planet and engaged in healthy living and, and what ingredients that they put in their food will start to educate themselves and learn. And so whoever is the loudest voice is going to start to dominate the understanding. Um But there's going to be a long time before there's a, a general consensus. 

Kyle Krull - 00:48:38
I think it's a really good point. And I'm curious because we haven't had a lot of people on with your level of access to like join a focus group, right? That's like fairly unique for our typical guest. Um out of all the the blessing and the curse to me of regenerative agriculture is that there are so many different selling points, right? There's so many different positive attributes of regenerative agriculture. So parent that with your perspective of having run focus groups before which attribute or attributes of regenerative agriculture, do you think will most broadly align with consumers and get them the most engaged in trying to understand what this relatively complicated system is all about? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:49:15
You know, it's, it's always going to come down to what affects me, what affects that person. And so there's, I would say the how the ingredients are treated or what is the the result for the ingredients is probably going to be the thing that is, is most important from the beginning. Um And so that's what people will start to understand. OK, it means that it's, it's formed in this way or it means that it doesn't have any pesticides or whatever, whatever it is that, that, um, is going to be most clearly understood. And then I think the, you know, people are becoming more engaged in climate change and more aware of that. And so that, that climate peace, uh, will be, will rise to the top and then the social piece people already understand. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:49:50
But I, I have a good friend who works for fair trade. And so, uh, I think that there's still a lot of people who they think fair, they know fair trade is good, but they don't really know what that actually means. Um And so the, the ethical piece of regenerative agriculture and the, the people impact, you know, people might say that that's good. I, I like that it's good, but they're not necessarily going to know what the details are. Um But along with anything when it comes to what's going to affect me personally, what's going to affect my Children, that's, that's where the awareness is going to start. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:50:34
And that's probably where if you're trying to spread the message and, and get people on board and to understand that's the point you want to hit on first. 

Kyle Krull - 00:50:52
Mhm. I totally agree. I asked that question hoping you would answer with that as you're leading um book for my own personal foundation to, to, to see if your expertise lined up. Um and it, it's casting your spot on because it's not even passing the test. I mean, you are, you have way more brand experience than I do. So, really, if, if anybody passed the test it's me. Um, not you. So I think it's, it's just really important that, you know, it's a self-interest market. People care more about themselves than they do the planet or their kids than about the planet. And that's not to say they don't care, but I don't think anybody's gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna do this for the planet even though it's gonna hurt me. 

Kyle Krull - 00:51:19
You know what I mean? So if you can align both of those things together and start with that leading value proposition of this is better for me and is better for the planet. I think that's the right way to go. And it's just really good to hear that somebody with your experience having worked for these large companies with all the marketing background and the printing background feels similarly. This is a really positive sign, in my opinion, 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:49
the the the thing that's coming to mind for me is like 22 things, right? So Nielsen has some really cool data that they put out in 22. And it's basically like taking Maslow's hierarchy of needs but kind of making it their own. And it talks about purchase drivers are, what's it gonna do for me and what's gonna do for my family? Those are the top two and like, that's the largest majority of people like make purchasing decisions and then more of those altruistic goals like climate or whatever are like really down at the bottom and I don't see that changing, right? And so I think us as a cohort of brands and as a, as a unit or whatever, yes, we need to go create consumer demand for these products. But we're not gonna do it by like throwing this term regenerative agriculture at people. We're gonna be, we're gonna do it by saying this product makes you, this product makes you like perform better at work like this, this really easy to understand outcome or attribute is like what we need to lead with. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:52:29
And then inside the Trojan Horse, once we've reached the city walls, we pull the regenerative agriculture out like that to me is, is the winning formula. And I've actually been spending a ton of time reading a book called Ramping Your Brand by uh Doctor James Richardson. And I don't know if everyone in the space agrees with him, but very like well researched. Look, she look, see Susan, the guy right there and like it, it's been, it's been really radically shifting the way that I'm thinking about this and like, how do we build individual and collective strategies as we're general branch to like get the job done? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:53:16
Yeah, I, so I have it right there but I haven't opened it in, in a year. So please don't quiz me on it. Um It's, I think, I think that Yeah, that's true. It's, it's, people are going to buy, they're going to buy what tastes great and is good for them and, and they think is cool or whatever, whatever primary factor is driving that day. Um, and they're going to do it for themselves and then in an environment, hopefully where they're choosing between a brand that, that meets their needs and is not regenerative and a brand that meets their needs and is they're going to start to look at those other factors. And so I think that, you know, we need to, we need to be able to have the brands in your house that you then say, hey, and, and guess what? It's, it's great and it's regenerative. Um But then we also do need to build the awareness of, of what that term means and why it's important because uh that's going to be sort of the, the little groundwork that that gets laid 

Kyle Krull - 00:54:20
for sure, totally agree. Um I want to take us to the future for Recoup. I know we've talked about some distribution goals and like that. Are there new products that you're hoping to launch? Maybe new flavors? I, I don't know if it's to the point where we can talk about new categories at this stage or not, but the, the, the name Recoup to me is broad enough to say that like the play could eventually be multi category. Um So curious to get your thoughts on, on the future. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:54:49
Yes. And, and for me as someone who loves innovation, that's if I could just do that all day, that would be my dream. Um because it's just, I love creating products. I love looking out at the market and seeing what the white space is and, and building off of consumer needs and flavor formulation and all that sort of stuff. Um But the, you know, business school person in me knows that when you move into a different category, you're basically starting another company. Um And so there is an awareness of we're small, we need to be focused um As much as I would love to do X Y Z, we can't do everything. And so we need to focus on doing one thing. Well, um we in, in terms of innovation within our category. So we have uh piloted a can line, a sparkling Can line. Um We, we piloted that last summer. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:55:33
We actually, we won an award from the specialty Food Association for Best Functional Beverage last year um for our, our resilience flavor and we got into one. Um And so that was, you know, sort of uh great approval in terms of, of this is a excellent product and we're excited to uh relaunch it, reintroduce it, it wasn't organic last when we, when we launched it. And so we would launch it in an organic and certified Regenerative Organic uh formulation. And so that is upcoming. Um and that's our going to be our next big thing and then other, other categories I won't get into yet 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:56:27
other than the carbonation, are there any other significant differences like does this, does that have caffeine like or is it pretty much the same formula? But with, with carbonation? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:56:37
So I won't, I won't spoil what the functional benefits are. But we did uh add in some additional functional to differentiate the flavors and to um add additional benefits. Cool, I 

Kyle Krull - 00:56:52
guess, but I won't. Yeah, I was gonna say leave it at that. Um That's super exciting though as, as we all know, carbonated is blowing up right now. So I think that's a really smart play and to your point about, you know, a new category, you know, RT D RT D at least is a little bit of recognition that can, can weave between noncarbonated and carbonated. So I think it's a really smart play. Um But also I just want to kind of like use your background. You love innovation, you love identifying whitespace if you were to start a brand new regenerative brand today from a category White Space perspective, where do you see the opportunities to innovate? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:57:30
I mean, 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:57:30
these were not on the list that we sent over to prep you were they Susan some of these 

Kyle Krull - 00:57:34
questions? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:57:37
Um No. Um it's, it's interesting, I guess the the question I would frame that question as find the White Space, make it regenerative. It's not like there's regenerative white space per se because for the consumer, that's not a thing yet. So it would be, where would I want to launch a brand and then make the, make one of the factors of it to be organic and be regenerative um would be important to me. Um I, you know, I'm sure there's byproduct of every single thing that's manufactured, that could be repurposed and could be something. But I don't know if that's going to be compelling for the consumer. Um And so, you know, where is there an opportunity to build them? Something that, that is really interesting that also happens to be regenerative. Uh I think a great brand that's out there already. 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:58:24
Uh that I know you're familiar with is Cluster Box and um and, and I think that's a really cool example of a, of a product that I would never have thought of. Um but is built, you know, inherently, regenerative and is delicious and is desirable for consumers because it's, it's meeting the needs of a, a healthy snack. Um And it, even though it's an ingredient profile that people wouldn't have asked for that because it's crunchy and it, because it's delicious, it's, it's going to be a hit. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:08
Yeah. Shout out, shout out to Emily and Lo Buck. Uh the great work with Yeah. Yeah. Um Susan, I'm gonna take us home with our last question which we've, we've talked probably a little bit about but just giving you the chance to add anything we haven't discussed, which is how do we get Regen brands to that 50% market share by 2050? 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:59:28
That was on the, uh, question prep and I, I, I don't know if I came up with a good answer for it. 

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:34
Um, you're not getting graded. So, you know, that's the good, that's a good 

Susan Buckwalter - 00:59:38
thing. Um, I, you know, I think that that is a, a great goal. I don't know if that's a realistic goal. If you just look at at what? Yeah, that's a realist in me. Um If you look at, if you look at the trend with organic, um I think there's a really good uh example to, to look at and, and um I think that what you'll find is people will care more and more the climate piece will become more and more important and part of that conversation. And so there's a, a really compelling angle there. Um But there needs to be more consensus on what it means. And so a better communication out to the masses of, of what it means and a better communication of why should they care? Why should I care um when it comes to that? And so it doesn't hurt to have everyone talking about it because it's building buzz and it's getting people to type it into a search bar and start to understand. 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:00:30
But it's important as, as you know, you want to actually grow the market to have it be clear that, that it's X Y Z and it's important because of X. Um And so that is still early and that still has a long way to go. 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:02
Yeah, for sure that that 50% would have to be made up of an inclusive definition of regenerative. For sure. That's, that's probably pretty, still still broad. And I do think it would have to include a spot at the table for some of the largest food and beverage companies to claim regenerative that maybe isn't fully R O C or as regenerative as other people. But I don't ever see a world where we have regenerative products that are accessible to non premium, non affluent customers unless we make that attainable for those brands and those and those operators and probably if they're regulated into it, which I do think is coming uh for a lot of those publicly traded companies from a climate disclosure perspective. But it'll be interesting, right? Is that just then lower carbon or is it regenerative? Is it climate smart? Is it regenerative? Like there's, there's a lot of very nuanced uh complex discussion to be had here. 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:01:44
Um That unfortunately, we try to break down into very, very simple uh conversation when it really isn't. But I, I think what you said was spot on and there's just a lot to be to be talked about in terms of that topic. 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:02:08
Yeah. And so I I worked for Unilever um after business school and, and they do lead the charge in terms of big multinational C P G s on a lot of sustainability fronts. And so maybe it is getting, getting someone like them who has an appetite for doing the right thing um to embrace regenerative and to help tell that story because it's hard for small brands to, to shout it out enough. Um I'm trying to tell, you know, six other stories along with it. And so uh to have some, some big brands, some big companies behind it is going to help. Um but we need to make sure that that their version is going to be a version that it meets the, meets the criteria, 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:56
integrity. Yeah, for sure. I couldn't agree more. 

Kyle Krull - 01:03:00
Yeah, cool. I think you're both, right? And I think um if you, if you look at the history of how the big C P G s have operated, they have taken the success. So the success stories out of natural channel and learned how to amplify those stories, right? So the more we can get successful startups to learn how to tell the story the right way. Um Susan, to your point, maybe to work together to amplify that message. I think the faster we can get some of the larger C P G conglomerates to adopt that messaging. But it really has to be like, I think the onus falls on the startups to like prove the concept, this can work and we need to, we need to tell that story and that and we do that by, you know, working together. Um So I'm, I'm excited to see where we go. 

Kyle Krull - 01:03:40
Mhm 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:03:45
And the onus falls on people like Kyle and I to create more resources for that group of startups that are not as well resourced as they need to, to accomplish that. And that's exactly what we're doing. So, I'm excited. 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:03:56
I, I think uh one of the, one of the things we had, we had talked about in the past was what, what could you guys do or what could the ecosystem do to help support startups? Um And so, obviously, you know, buying regenerative uh products is, is really important and then helping funding regenerative brands. Um And so that's, that's my own little shout out for we're in capital. Um If there's someone who hears this podcast that is interested and wants to learn more about that, please reach out to myself or to see what. Um But there are a lot of brands doing amazing things in this space and not all of them will survive. And so if you, if you like the space and you like their products, be it an ambassador, uh you know, be a supporter and uh move the needle with, with the purchases that you make 

Kyle Krull - 01:04:49
totally on, on that point, we don't do a great job of uh of doing this every episode for the consumers who are listening today, who want to try Recoup, where can they find your product for 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:04:58
the, the easiest, quickest way would be on Amazon Prime. You can get our variety pack and so search for Recoup beverage and 

Kyle Krull - 01:05:07
R C O U P. Correct. 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:05:11
Yes, Raco U P. Um And then if you're in the northeast, we're in a lot of the natural and independent stores in the New York City, um tri-state area as well. Hopefully coming to a massive chain near you soon. 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:30
This was amazing. Susan, thanks so much for joining us. 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:05:34
Great to chat with you. Um Thank you so much for the, the great questions and and really interesting space. We're so excited to be a part of this movement and thank you for, for all that you do to support it. 

Kyle Krull - 01:05:46
Absolutely. Absolutely, great. Great to have you. 

Susan Buckwalter - 01:05:48
Thank you 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:52
for show notes, episode transcripts and more information on our guests and what we discuss on the show, check out our website Regen-brands.com. That is Regen-brands.com. You can also find our Regen recaps on the website Regen recaps. Take less than five minutes to read and cover all the key points of the full hour long conversations. You can check out our youtube channel, ReGen Brands Podcast for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform. Subscribe to future episodes and share the show with your friends. Thanks for tuning in to The ReGen Brands Podcast brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures. 

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:20
We hope you learned something new in this episode and it empowers you to use your voice, your time and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system. Love you guys.