#69 - Matthieu Kohlmeyer @ La Tourangelle

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #69 - Can Cooking Oils Go Regen? - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Kyle Krull - 00:00:15
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers operators and investors to learn about the consumer brands, supporting regenerative agriculture, and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my Coves, AC, gonna take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:33
On this episode, we have Matthieu Colmayer. Who is the founder and CEO of La Tourangelle. La Tourangelle is a French American family owned and operated culinary oil maker. Currently supporting regenerative agriculture with their regenerative organic certified sunflower oil and they're soon to be released regenerative olive oil. In this episode, Matthieu shares La Tourangelle's 20 year history as a CPG brand, and 150 year history producing artists and oils. He shares what makes their production and packaging unique from other players in the category, and he also details their future plans to support regenerative agriculture. Matthieu is a wealth of knowledge and all topics were related, and he was nice enough to weigh in on the current seed oil debates, existing issues with counterfeit oils in the marketplace. And why scaling regen and in oil products might look a little different than other categories. Let's dive in. What's up, everybody?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:18
Welcome back to another episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. Very excited today to have our friend Matthieu from La Tourangellel with us. So welcome, Matthieu.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:01:36
Hey. What's up, guys? How you doing?

Kyle Krull - 00:01:38
Matthieu, it's so great to have you here. Thank you so much. It's it's gonna be a fun episode for a couple of reasons. Knowing show, what we kinda talk about, what we're gonna talk about. They're already dropping f bombs. We're talking about controversial stuff. I'm wearing a car to get them. She looked like the dude in the big Lebowski, so it's just a it's a positive vibe overall for this episode. But, Matthieu, give us a quick lay of the land.

Kyle Krull - 00:01:56
For those who are not familiar with Latur and Shell, what sort of products do you produce like, what SKUs and where can people find, you know, Lester Angel today?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:02:06
Sure. So Lester Angel Angel is a family business. We make, specialty culinary oils here in California. We have a meal where in Woodland, California next to Sacramento where we press bullets, hazelnut, some bones, pistachios, and then organic olive oil and avocado oils. So we do a bunch of different specialty oils. They're sold in a beautiful can, most stores from all foods to their natural stores, to, Safeway Quarter, even Walmart, actually. And so comes in a can, Laturn gel, and our primary best selling items would be avocado, organic olive oil, grape seed oil, walnut oils, cinnamon oil. So, basically, good ores with nice flavors.

Kyle Krull - 00:02:47
Lovely. I appreciate you setting the table for us. There are so many questions we have about oil today. But we'll we'll let AC kick us off with with getting into the origin story.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:02:56
Yeah. And I'm, you know, like, I'm trying to wrap my arms around how we're gonna get through all of it because y'all do have so many skews, and there's so many oils. And I'm interested to talk about, you know, all of them And I think my my story to kick us off is my girlfriend had private label trader Joe's olive oil. And this this stuff was literally clear. Like, it was literally, it looked like water. And I brought the lot torn gel olive oil over there and I was like, hey, this is what olive oil is actually supposed to look like. So, hope we can do a little bit of that kind of comparison so people leave leave with some more information there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:22
But, Matthieu, take us back to the origin story. I mean, the the process is in the legacy brand dates back to the 1800s. If my if my, you know, data is correct, y'all been around as a as a CPG company for the last, like, 20 plus 25 years, So how did this all get started and and what's kind of the the origin story?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:03:46
Cool. Yeah. That, so later in jail is, initially a French company. We still have very thin friends, actually. It got LaTronja. It technically got started in 18 67. In France in the Loire Valley, and it was this, really, really small oil making one at oil. So picture, you know, like, four people working in tiny shop, making one at all on the bank of the law waiver. It's a traditional way there. You can see that one at all has been made in this region since the middle age. So very long culinary tradition. And the term job was essentially one of these guys making this thing.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:04:18
We So my father, ended up through a series of events, taking over the standing company back in the early 2, 19 nineties. Wow. And essentially took this monetary process and scaled it to be a Zoom industrial process. And then, California is the world largest producer of Walnuts, pistachios, almonds. And somehow there was a connection with her, and me, I was I was just looking to start a company, you know, looking for the right contributing to the progress. And, I talked to my dad, and he's like, dude, they're like, did these guys in the US saying we should do a company in the US to make one at all.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:04:53
I have no idea if we should do it, but why don't you fly there and investigate? I was really done for it. I said, sure. I took my backpack, and, you know, I just wanted to travel. You know, I love to reach Ike and, you know, I'm saying just kind of, like, travel the world. So I went there and checked it out and found the natural industry was booming. That was in 2000.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:05:13
Found that, California was bountiful plenty of nuts, plenty of stuff to, to use to make amazing words. And also found, a investor, essentially, a joint venture partner who was, like, do it. If you wanna do it, we'll put the money down. And I was like, this is incredible. I'm 20. I'm 23. These guys, but I think it was money. And, you know, we got my father.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:05:32
He's

Kyle Krull - 00:05:39
The American dream. I mean

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:05:43
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, this office at this VP and this guy, I'm, like, 22. And the guy looks at me, is like, why don't you start a project? I'm like, this is incredible. Like, I'm like, yeah. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm 12, and this guy's getting money. I'm like, okay. So that's how it got done.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:05:53
So, yes, definitely the California doing, and so so, yeah, it came here. Build them a small, walnut or immuno pretty much mimicking what we were doing in France. And then came to realize quickly that it was gonna be a steep climb because I was like, god, you know, we don't have any of this tuition. None of my 2 partners, be my father or the other guys, any idea for now to sell in retail. And so that's when I yeah. The the

Anthony Corsaro - 00:06:26
plan all along from the beginning, Matthieu, was to be CPG or was it to do food was it multiprong from a sales company?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:06:31
Frankly, the initial idea of the 2 partners was like, well, we'll sell in bulk. So we'll we'll we'll find Brian's we can sell our stuff to. Obviously, no one cared for that. And very, very quickly, I came to realize he was gonna be 100% CPG. Yeah. So that so I so I created the I I took a torrential name that it, but I recreated the brand packaging. All you know about it today is essentially was built in 2002. And then just started selling and, you know, and that One that thought was the pry the first product, and then we added grapeseed, and then we kept on adding products over the years.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:06:54
But really, really quickly, we could see that we had tons of traction. The packaging was, really attractive and and really conveyed the the strengths in the quality of the product. And then because the quality of the product was so fantastic and because we were making it there ourselves, we could offer a really tremendous value for the price. So we were a premium affordable brand. So we came to shelf. The packaging sold it, and then people when they tried it and used it, they realized it's vastly superior in quality.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:07:24
Because we make it so we can bypass the 22 middleman that's usually in between the maker and actually the the the shop, the store. So that's essentially that's really what was the fundamental of Deepgram initially. Like, you know, we make the products so we know we can make some juicy pair, but that's nothing if you can't communicate this properly to your customers. We did that through the packaging, and then we kept on adding all the ores because that's what we do. And every time we come to a new category, we say, what do we think should be the best, or should be not not the best cause you can always do better, but should be something that we feel really strong about. That is gonna be a high quality product. It's still affordable. I mean, the goal is to be a premium affordable, we wanna be sold in supermarkets.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:08:05
You have to picture. When I started the brand 20 years ago, people were like, you can sell this stuff for $35. There's good for it. You know, like, it's gonna be 1, you know, the bubble was really about two birds. They felt you could sign anything for anything.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:08:25
Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:08:26
But that was not the right approach to you. So, I mean, at the end of the day, product, people are gonna use it every day, and you, so you have to stay. Anyway, so that's basically what we have done in the area. I'm 23 years later. I'm still talking to you guys.

Kyle Krull - 00:08:38
Amazing. Man. Yeah. Now I'm I'm curious because, you know, the the packaging's beautiful. You also are in a very unique format relative to the rest of the category. So from, like, the inception point, have you always been in, I believe it's an aluminum, like, canned container. Is

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:08:53
that correct? It's tin. It's tin. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Kyle Krull - 00:08:57
Have you always been in the tin with, like, this sort of branding, or did has that evolved over time? And if so, like, why did you land on this tin container?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:09:05
We started with a team container, back in 20,272,003, we launched a brand.

Kyle Krull - 00:09:11
People also very rare back when you first brought it in? Like

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:09:15
Yes. The result container. Yeah? There were so it was a traditional product. It was a traditional packaging in France, meaning you found ores, not ores sold in tin cans. So that's why we did it. That being said when I came to the US market, I mean, I mean, dozens of buyers told me, like, dude, that looks like a, you know, or you can't for your car. You should change that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:38
I love when Matthieu goes to his American accent, his American voice. I'm just

Kyle Krull - 00:09:42
gonna say that. We need more

Anthony Corsaro - 00:09:43
of that. It's so good.

Kyle Krull - 00:09:45
It always starts with dude, which is so improper because he's in California.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:09:50
Exactly. So, yeah. But, anyway, That that that worked. I can't, I mean, it obviously worked out, but initially, it was not really worked out. So whatever, it definitely worked, but, it it was a stiff initially was not that obvious, I should say. Including the it's trending well. I mean, it's it's a great packaging. It's late. So I see that people don't really understand, I mean, glass bottles weigh a ton. So the the CO 2 footprint of a glass bottle that you were around the country is really not that great. Even though you recycle it, it's still very heavy.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:10:12
And then really always are they're very, very reactive to light, not only your attention, but also light. And so you really want to protect it. So the the can is really an agile packaging for that. You get the light recyclable and also very protective of the That's why we have numerous examples of patches of oil, which were a bit borderline on on antioxidants. So, basically, you know, it's like you go naked in nature. You have no good jacket. You're gonna get cold really quickly.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:10:40
And so if the world doesn't have enough antioxidants to start with, it's gonna age not great. And but if we we've seen numerous times when when it's in a can, it's protected so much better than the same product in a glass bottle because we do a lot of product label, and so we do as well for other customers. And the same batch is gonna age very, very differently if it's in a can or a bottle. So it does make it's not just a marketing gimmick. It it does make sense.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:10
Super interesting. Matthieu, I'm curious. You mentioned the the the vertical integration already with the believe there's a production facility in California and still in France. Correct?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:11:20
Absolutely. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:11:21
And so you mentioned being able to cut out some middlemen. Like, what does the typical process look like other oils that come to shove versus y'all. Are y'all do buying, you know, the end nut if it's a walnut directly and then doing everything else from there? You know, compare your process with others just so we can understand that.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:11:39
Yeah. So for for for for nut orgs, because we make it. So, essentially, what we'll do is we'll take the nuts and roast it and then press it. And because we do everything while we control the entire quality process. Right. Are

Kyle Krull - 00:11:50
you actually doing the growing as well? Are you sourcing those from, like, local farms in town.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:11:54
Well, we have 10,000 olive trees, which sounds like a lot, but it's really small. We have about 20 acres of basically, of land around our property where we planted olive trees, but it's it's more of a small small fraction of our supply. So now that we our job is to buy from the larger farming operation and then transform that into worries. Look, most of the CPG brand we compete with, are basically created by folks who are in an office somewhere they go through a co packer so they don't control it back in. And then they'll just go to some kind of trader that imports the oil from our receipts. Tell them that it's obviously the best ever they've ever tried in their life. If you guys trying to make money, you have to think almost anywhere you have hundreds of of producer, or maybe dozens of producers from all over the world.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:12:31
You have all kind of different qualities. There are, like, you know, a lot of different people involved. So the quality may be quite different in the end. So the fact that we either we make it ourselves or we buy directly from producer that we know very well, that we visit, that Yeah. You'd be surprised, but there there are look. That's what we do. So it's always direct import or or manufacturing ourselves. We bought everything.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:12:56
We we sell and we have 2 labs where we analyze everything. So that's the vertical integration. It's really about knowledge about the product. So and if you make words, you just know And when you talk, it's like, you know, are you a few fixed cars and, you know, to put an engine together? Yeah. You're gonna be a much better buyer because, you know, you're doing, if you're just like, oh, I like this sound. It looks great.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:13:19
You know, like, it's it made me feel challenging. So Yeah. That's kinda what it is. So for our category, we currently are not making it ourselves. We're we're building a manufacturing plant in Peru and Lima to to make it ourselves. Wow.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:13:34
But Like, when we buy and we buy from various sets of people in different countries to, you know, depending on the time of the year and so on, we're we're really very technical about it. You know, and and you get really after because, because there's so many different qualities. I mean, yesterday, I I I was quoting your customer, like, we haven't sold them well, and they they sell to cosmetic stuff in bulk. Literally, the woman, I reply to is saying, well, what you guys tell? Is it the real stuff, or is it the cosmetic gray? That's literally what she wrote.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:14:00
I was like, bro. Yeah. It's the real stuff. I'm like, really, I do have to write down. I mean, Yes. It is indeed Amyloid.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:14:04
It's not just a plan that I call Amyloid because it so, yeah, the oil industry has some folks who sometimes did this It's a bit surprising to see what they think is proper to do or not. You know?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:14:29
My my question, Matthieu, is like, what does that QCQA process look like when vats of oil show up at your doorstep? Like, are y'all smelling it, tasting it? Like, PH ing it? Like, what does it actually look like to grade to your quality standards? I'm so curious about that.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:14:44
That's a great question. So, So always are defined. You have some chemical parameters that you can and then there are some parameters that are more than an uptick. So there are about taste, taste, taste, and smell, and, as you said. The the first step is to is to indeed do a a chemical analysis. So it's really simple in a sense, always, most always They they contain about 99% fat, so different types of fatty acids, and 1% seems they're not fat. There's things that are soluble in fats. Mhmm. And so so if you think of it, if I if you wanna if if the oil is refined as no flavor, no smell, How can you make the difference between 2 hours?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:15:13
If I tell you it's a grape seed oil or if I tell you it's an avocado or it's a cheap soybean oil, it all looks pretty much the same. What's gonna change is the financing profile is gonna be different. And then the inside 25 also, the things who are this 1% stuff that are diluted in the oil is gonna be unique or mostly unique, or at least they have some unique features. So what we do in the order that we get, first, we're gonna do a peroxide value and a free fatty acid in a which is gonna tell you if it's, you know, the acidity and if it's older or fresh. And then we're gonna do a fatty acid profile. So essentially, we're gonna take all these fatty acids, and we're gonna weigh them. And then it's gonna give you a distribution of these fatty acids.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:15:55
In each oil, it's supposed to have a typical fatty acid profile. If the fatty acid profile is off, yeah, there's something off. So people cheating in orange usually, if they're if they really think you're stupid, they they won't even bother. I'll just I thought this is the best time we can know everywhere. It's literally just so annoying, but, if you don't do a fantasy part, Now the people are a bit more sophisticated in their cheating. Well, basically, trying to mimic words that are very similar financially profile.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:16:23
So to give you an example, a zone at oil, has almost the exact same failure seat profile as the only one. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:16:24
Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. And so on. Okay.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:16:36
So if depending on market conditions, whatever you can find, you may find that it's more interesting. Obviously, it's the best would be that you take a soybean or that cost 50¢ a pound and you sell it for 3.50 as an avocado. That's like money in the bank. Right. So that's the type of people. So fatty acid profile is a good way.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:16:54
And but sometimes people are really gonna be sophisticated and just find the exact same fatty acid profile, like I mentioned. In that case, you're obviously gonna go to the 1% and look for something that is very unique to, and worse. So most of the tests I just described to you, we do internally. But some of this inseventy file andseventy Fiable identification, you're starting to be quite, sophisticated there. So there will maybe send out site for an outside analysis. And then you can also use AI because AI is so trendy.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:17:22
So indeed, you can use clusters and stuff like that. And, basically, Instead of looking for one marker off, is it true or right or no, you know, like yes or no, the the I said, for you can use an approach, through magnetic resonance where it's gonna basically look at a bunch of parameters and clustered oil. So if the point of yours so essentially, there's the the most sophisticated way coming now of of identifying if if it's likely to be achieved or if it's likely to be the real step.

Kyle Krull - 00:17:55
That's fascinating. I did I had no idea that oils were getting MRIs to validate their authenticity. But, apparently, that's the case. You know, who knew? I'm really curious to know. Anyway, I know we have even like, scratch the surface on a regen yet. And I apologize for another question. It's not gonna get us there, so it's coming. But I I think I think it's really fascinating. All these different tests that you all do.

Kyle Krull - 00:18:09
And there was recently an article that came out maybe just a couple years ago. Looking at 14 different, quote, avocado oil brands out there. I think 2 of them were legit. And I'm curious from, like, a regulatory perspective, does does the USDA and or FDA just, like, not test, not care, and people are allowed to do this just 10, they don't know what's happening or, like, like, to me, it it feels almost impossible to, like, that should be the case that a consumer can walk into a grocery store. Purchase something that says avocado oil and have it not be avocado oil. So why why is that even possible?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:18:47
Dude, that's a really good question. Isn't it?

Kyle Krull - 00:18:51
I think so.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:18:53
My guy's on fire today with the cardigan. He's here in the middle of the day.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:18:57
It's not like it's incredible. It's incredible that you have to ask this human. People are that convinced that some of their cups everywhere are shaking stuff, and it's definitely not the case. Because it's an obvious fact that you can define what is an avocado or not. I mean, sometimes it's borderline. But as the I tell you, when you we we we go on and we take product label from very large supermarket chains that are very reputable, like, $1,000,000,000 companies on the stock market. And we checked, and it's like, it takes us $20 analysis to see that it's not what it is. Mhmm. What did you know? Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:19:22
Remember that you guys did provide Avocado. And if you take 25 years of analysis, you never seen an avocado as more than 1%. You test the oil, and it has 2% of CT and 0. What? The avocado was weird and said, oh, I'm just gonna double the amount of CT. You know, you're not relevant. But in in the the finance, you know, takes it really not a big deal.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:19:45
You're not saying, oh, I'm gonna send something to Germany and it's gonna cost me $600 and all the resulting 3 weeks. No. Any lab can do it here. And so why is people because they're just, you know, they're just like, it's like, oh, no. I can't see shit. You know, it's great.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:19:59
The price of ad was perfect. And the FDA is not there because the FDA is underfunded because, you know, no one wants the FDA, really, in the US, it feels like. So no one is controlling this stuff. Look, I'll tell you the story. I should not even tell this story, but it's so funny. I was at Xpo West. Okay.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:20:14
Xpo West. When was that last last month? Yeah. Like, the story you're talking about avocado, it is nothing new. I mean, everybody know in the avocado industry that they're folks cheating. Mhmm. And I had this very large brand come to me and this person, initially, told me.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:20:26
I'm not saying nothing. Just she's like, yeah. You know, internally, we have 2 orders we call. There is the codex OID. I don't know if you know codex, and then there is the regular stuff. CODEX is the international regulation that define what our category is.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:20:39
So this person at the gut come on our boots and tell me that she essentially add the regular straight product. That is what it is because it needs cut regulation. And the product that they call avocado, that definitely did not meet that. And I was like, but you realize you're coming on my wish. Tell me that you still achieving products, and you're fine with Like, you know, this is incredible. So, yes, some people just play dumb and you're like, dude, you should understand if codex define a role, it's because that's what it is.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:21:09
It's 160 countries coming together to define what avocado should be. Wow. This is avocado. It's not like these guys came up with a weird regulation. They just They just agreed. Hey. Let's all guys agree on what should be the financing profile of a catalog. That's basically what they did.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:21:23
It took them 5, 10 years They did it. They just came out. So now if you wanna know if you have a look at it, it's proper just looked at their codex. All these countries argued for years on what should be the proper fatty acid profile that If you say it's avocado, this is what it is. Anyway, so why is it happening? Because the demand is incredible. The market is growing. And there is it's tough to find. Yeah. And it's expensive.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:21:45
And then you have folks gonna make a loan saying, I can make it, you know, I have I have it available and the price is competitive. Oh, perfect. Oh, convenient. Yeah. But your financing profile is slightly off. It's because elevation. Well, you're in my deck or yeah. I do it.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:22:01
You don't realize 6000 feet elevation is different than 2000. It changes the pricing profile, or When I refine it, I change the value as a profile, but that's it's it's normal. Don't worry. It's fine all the time. All the time. So you'd be surprised. Anyway, so that's why it's happening.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:22:22
And but frankly, I think any brand who is is serious about it, they'll they'll know. But I've talked to so many brand owners or marketers who are just saying, No. I think it's proper. I think it's clean. You know, they don't really wanna know. Anyway, sorry.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:22:41
It's

Kyle Krull - 00:22:42
Yeah. So No. No.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:22:43
No. No. It's, it's nothing. It it needs

Kyle Krull - 00:22:47
to be No. It's super important that, you know, as an industry, that this is something we discussed. And one of the things that, you know, this this is kind of bringing us towards regen is, like, one of the keys to a truly regenerative brand is, like, proximity to the growing or the farming or the quality of of whatever it is that's being sold. Right? You will have that for all of your products, but I wanna dive deeper into the regions. I'd like When did regenerative agriculture become a term and or a priority for you, and how did you start to incorporate that into the Los Angeles portfolio?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:23:17
Yes. So, well, so, you know, I mentioned I started the brand initially making monotoid, and and the goal was to promote what we knew to do, and it was this traditional product. And then we essentially built strengths and became a bigger brand and started selling more orders. And so at some point, I really came to realize we'd build a lot of muscle, and I wanted to put this muscle to work for the right things. And, and then you come to realize as you scale that, you you can make I mean, relatively small, but we're a small company, but that being said, still, you you can try to push the right things. So that in 2099, 2 2020, I mean, 2019, I was trying to be quite interested in organic, organic region. And I felt, hey, you know, Why is there any old brands that are selling organic region?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:23:57
Doctor Bronner was starting to do it in, in Sri Lanka with coconut oil. But there was not much else happening. And so I started calling around trying to see if I could find folks I could help. Essentially, I can use my muscle to try to help you guys out. I couldn't find anyone. There was just no one making organic, which annoyed.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:24:14
I mean, there were marketers talking about it, but there was no one really involved. So then, I I I went further and eventually, I found a farmer who was actually at the for not the certification at the time, but it was in the process of And so I said, hey. Could you guys grow sunflower for us? And then we'll press it. And then we can try to basically essentially promote what you're doing. And try to to tell the story of, and the the I mean, look, if you come to a store and then they there no one, nowhere does it ever explain how it's made where it's made where it's the deal.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:24:43
You know? And so it really was about that. So we did the 1st, the 1st 20 acre of organic reach and see the orders back async in 2020 or 2021. Essentially, that was the the start. So it's been about 4 years. And scaling that is interesting. Initially, we'd come to all foods and had no idea what we talked about. You're like, alright. Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:25:06
Thank you. And then so and now it's they're all over it. So now we've scaled sink from sunflower to flax. And now we're just launching an olive oil. Actually, at all foods coming from Greece, it's the first organic region IT of olive oil. It's gonna be on the shelf this summer. Amazing. Congrats. Coming on.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:25:26
But it's still and look, the the the the the the movement is still in its infancy. Yeah. There's still, in the order business, there is still a very steep premium for Regen because it's super specialty. It's very small, so you can't benefit from all the scale that you need to that you need to have in order to be price competitive. So it it, you know, it's still super premium and quite expensive, and I'm I'm hoping it's gonna, as it's still is we're gonna be able to be more more price competitive. But it's it's it's, yeah, it's getting there. And I think for now, what's cool is that we see supermarkets really supporting the initiatives.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:26:03
4 years ago, 3 years ago, people had no clue. So it's changing very quickly. So, hopefully, consumers are gonna are gonna follow that as well.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:18
Well, I think that's what makes y'all really interesting case study to me. Matthieu is you know, not all the products are even organic yet. You have it's all non GMO if I'm looking at the website correctly. It's some some dimensional, some organic, and now you have some rock products as well. Yeah. As as y'all think through that with accessibility being this thing that you've kinda wanted to be tethered to from the beginning that you've already mentioned, how do you see like product innovation and price architecture there. Like, is do do rock products just replace the organic SKU and that serves the natural channel do they sit next to that organic SKU in the natural channel? You know, like, how do you see all that coming together from from a product innovation and and sourcing perspective?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:26:54
Well,

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:27:01
you have to keep in mind that most orders that we that we sell, if you look monotoy, avocado oil, grapeseedoy, Yeah. I'm all the world. All doors I just mentioned, they are made of byproducts of an industry. So it's a circular economy. You know what? Like, if we can make grapes here, it's because peep it's the only reason it's because people make wine. So I I can't control the what comes to me. So if now organic region wine becomes the big thing and now you have most of the volume is actually organic, then I can make organic groups more easily.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:27:24
Yeah. But right now, organic wines is still really small in the category. So if if I'm gonna take a byproduct of a of a small thing, I mean, it's gonna be tiny. It's gonna be So making organic grape seed art at scale is pretty much impossible today. You can make small scale or really small small scale. But you can't make it at scale.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:27:48
So our grapes see that I can't I can't be organic, but it's I'm already taking a waste that I'm trying into the products in a sense from us you to whatever you wanna say. From an ecological standpoint, it's great. At least you're giving a single knife to something. Well, that's just a it's a bit the same. Now if you'd sing sunflower or flags, or even olive, you grow, that's the reason you grow it. It's because you're gonna press it.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:28:04
And also keep in mind, when you make orders, you really make cake to feed animals, So the oil industry is driven, you know, most seeds that we price, it's 5050 oil and protein. Mhmm. And so you have to think it works if you can, monetize the protein side. So if you can find someone who says, I'm gonna pay for the organic, feed because I really need it for my organic cows, Oh, now, suddenly, you can make the product. If if no one gives you any premium for it, it's gonna be tough because now the oil has to has to is to pay for the entire premium. So it's the economics.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:28:42
So, basically, the short answer to your question is that each oil has its own economics, and some you can do fairly easily organic reach in, and some be really challenging because you do not control, where it's coming from. You're basically the mercy of what the industry does. Avocado is the same. Avocado, we buy the weird tiny avocados do ones who have small damage. You know, the the really nice looking ones, they end up on this at this supermarket shelf sold for, like, 1 or 2 hours of pop. So you're like, you can't compete with that. Making what you know, so all it is about taking the ugly ones and, you know, making good stuff out of it.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:29:07
So that's why we try to for organic region, we're trying to take crops that are fairly easily, you can transition fairly easily. The issue we're facing right now in scaling region for us is that when we come to larger farmers, in Europe, they don't actually fully understand what we mean by this regen stuff. A lot of people doing regen are not organic, And if you tell them, no. No. I want you to be emergent and organic. They're like, oh, no.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:29:39
Dude, I'm gonna use at least 1 once a year, I wanna be able to do this, which is not legal in But, if not, the yield loss is such that I just called to afford it. But yet, I mean, all the other things. Right? And then you're like, yeah. But I know what my consumer is 1st and organic consumer, and that's the one who's gonna pay the premium for region. Even though, really, the goal should be that all agriculture moves 1st region That would be such a huge savings for the world, but it's another way it works, right now.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:30:03
So it's been really a difficult thing to say, and I have this issue of saving Montana where we're trying see other program for seeds. And the guys were like, we they were doing a lot of research and stuff already, and they're not getting a dime for meaning it's no one's, like, on the label, you can't say that this is getting the right thing, but they're not organic because they just don't wanna go there because they don't think it's gonna be worth their while. So It's a regen organic, regen organic. It's from a marketing standpoint, you're better off to be regen inorganic. Mhmm. From the farming and CO2 capture standpoint, if you truly just trying to make, you know, you're trying to fight global warming, it's gonna be a different story because you're trying in order to make an impact, you need thousands of acres in front of you.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:30:39
And and organic by nature is more specialty. So you're gonna be much more than volume. So anyway, the the stories have been tricky there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:31:00
Matthieu just nailed the region brand's manifesto in the last two minutes. Oh, I love it so much.

Kyle Krull - 00:31:05
He killed it. And and I wanna share a story that's very similar. You know? So I work for Killam Fire. We are a bone broth maker, and we, like you, utilize a byproduct to try to make bone broth. Right? Nobody's raising cattle to sell bones. So if we, and this is something we struggle with today. It's like we want to get more regenerative bones into our supply chain, but it's hard for us to spur on that transition because they're like, well, we need regen beef purchasers, if you're gonna get bones, and that's really like the the higher economic upside for anybody who's producing cattle, So it's a real struggle, and our supply chain is 2 different types of bones. I can't even imagine the level of complexity you all have to face with various different types of nuts, seeds, so on and so forth, and the level of commoditization and global sourcing there.

Kyle Krull - 00:31:37
It's just gotta be incredibly challenging to navigate all that. So I just wanna share that perspective. And I really love what you said about, especially as a rock brand saying that, like, you know, we need to get regenerative going first. I think this really, really important And I'm curious from, like, the agronomy side, like, the, why is it that the the growers are so hesitant to do organic? You mentioned there's, like, one thing. Maybe is it Is it, just a little bit of spraying here? They're like, what's the barrier for these farmers?

Kyle Krull - 00:32:07
You don't wanna commit to the organic certification despite all of their regenerative practices.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:32:20
I mean, to to be tran to transition organic, you have to have 3 years of organic farming. You need a bunch of audits and it's money and And then, a lot of times, you won't find someone who's gonna buy your organic crop. I'll pay you the premium that you want for your organic crop. And if you sign organic, it's, it's a big commitment. And as a farmer, if you are by yourself, I don't know. Like, I'm not a farmer. I'm not gonna pretend I'm a farmer, but I mean, to me, frankly, anytime I work with farmers, every time I feel they are the strongest and the sharpest businessmen I've ever seen.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:32:41
It's like the most difficult business ever. You deal with nature. You don't control any of it. It's like a, whatever, animals everywhere, and nature, and weather, and there's none of it you control, and yet they're trying to work this thing usually with a dining crew with a bunch of equipment. So I get it. You're saying, hey. Can you make be, like, way more difficult, please, because I wanna make it. You know, it's it's a challenge.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:33:05
So I I I get that. So usually, when I go to these farmers who are really a lot of them are struggling to get by. And so it's like a so, you know, it has to be an obvious financial choice, and it's a long term choice for them. You know, as far as CPG, you can kind of pivot and change and but these guys are, like, planning 5 years out if not way more. So I I tend I I cannot get it. And so they they they need guaranteed they need to know they're gonna have a a customer.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:33:34
They need to move the volume and they just to be at the right price. Anyway, so it's a it's a bit tricky economics. But so that's what it is. I know, look,

Kyle Krull - 00:33:51
I

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:33:51
think organic region has room to grow a lot, and I think what we're we're about to see this transition. Because right right now what we see that when all food Gosco and all these big, big players are are starting to really push it. Now I think it's gonna be much easier for for us to move to some large partners who are already organic certified. And now we're already going through the pains of managing all these QA processes and saying, hey, guys. We just found a new saying that you should sign up on. Goldore region. And, like, really, another one. Thanks. But once they say there's money to be made or that it's gonna be the it's gonna be worth the effort.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:34:16
Then I and and so I see at this point, we can get some really large crops to jump on board. And, certainly, you can be competitive on price. Because frankly, in Spain, for example, we we work some organic other crops, which are really significant in the north. One of our key supplier were the 1st organic Oliver in Spain back in the eighties when organic was not even yet defined by European Union. So, you know, it's a village where these guys, you know, are saying they're really proud of it. It's been 40 years that they are at the forefront of organic.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:34:46
So these guys will be first one to go with. If they feel it's really the right thing to do, but they need they need to know that's long term, just not a fad that, you know, whatever, the trendy term that everybody's excited about in 3 years from it's gonna change. But so I I think we're back to to to be able to be convincing enough that they'll be like, Okay. You know what? This thing is easier to stay. We're gonna go for it. And then, suddenly, you can come with an olive oil that is pretty much the same price as an organic that is region.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:35:12
And and, you know, you know what I'm saying? So that's it's this

Kyle Krull - 00:35:23
Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:35:23
We need to to create this more. It's a step by step.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:35:27
Yeah. I I certainly don't envy the level of complexity you're dealing with there in the amount of crops, Matthieu. I mean, I think it's really, really challenging. And I think we need to always bring the conversation back to, ultimately, if the farmer economics don't work, none of this works. And so we have some really cool brands that are making that work, but a lot of them are extremely direct trade or fully ver ver vertically integrated. So it it makes it hard still, but it's less complex. And when you have kind of this, upcycling component are already the the complexity there. I mean, that's that's an increased challenge. And I also think there's a lot more space for us to kind of talk about this overlap between upcycling and regen because ultimately, they should both be tools to increase the farmer economics.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:36:04
And they should stand side by side in how we leverage them to do that. And I think I'm bullish on them having a greater intersection because, ultimately, it should bring more money back to the farm gate, which should enable better practices.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:36:30
Yeah. I mean, it's all it's all it's, you know, it's it's pushing Everest. I mean, the end goal here is just say that we're trying to put less pesticides in nature. We're we're trying to leave less ground just bare and, you know, losing its value and We're trying to be a resilience. So there it takes it's all of these initiatives together that eventually pushes the right thing. So I think region, the first challenge with region is to, okay, consumers understand what does it mean? I don't think folks understand that you should that when you drive through, you know, farmland and when you see, like, bare land, there's nothing on it, that's not great. Like, nature doesn't do that. You don't really want this stuff. We need to see under the Lakers sometimes like that.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:37:08
That people don't seem to, like, why you I well, they live in California, when you drive and you see a bunch of almond trees, like, almond or trees where it's, like, there's not one one grand, and it's just, like, the land is bare. Like, you're like

Anthony Corsaro - 00:37:25
It's dirt. Entry.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:37:26
Yeah. It's dirt everywhere. And we're like, wow. Okay. These guys manage. I mean, look, we have an early war trip. I'm like, crisis right everywhere. I'm like, god. This is a pain in the ass. Like, you know, I'm discovering what the farmer is. It's very challenging. So I get why they would do that, but, anyway, sometimes they do it. They'll they'll do better because you know, the the the that's what they wanna do. And sometimes they just they need a financial incentive.

Kyle Krull - 00:37:49
Right.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:37:50
So, Regina, yeah, there are many ways to get there. I think it's soldering the direction in a sense. So but but it's only gonna really work if the price noise remains competitive. And that that's kind of the challenge we're seeing right now. Right. The the price of a good entity changes all the time. Like, in, you know, in Sunflower and Ours, we we've seen the price go like crazy up for the last couple of years. Now it's coming down.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:38:06
So when it when the price of everything was higher, it was a bit easier to have organic regen because you're already in there. Whenever everything comes out again, you're like, god, the the spread is gonna be quite the gap can be quite significant. And in not to mention

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:25
if people are making fake oils and that bring down the price even more. I mean,

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:38:30
Yeah. And, yes, well, that that's look. It's not I I I don't wanna put the entire industry on the bus. It's true. But it it's gonna it's usually what happens is that when when a specialty or it goes very quickly, you have some rogue actors, people playing stupid, We went through a cleanup process. In any case, the fact that this codex regulation came out now So what it means is that all these countries are green. So now there is no argument. Like, any municipal market buyer can say, do are you meaning codecs? That's it. You know, they can just sit there.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:38:59
In the past, the guy could always argue, no, it's not true. Like, you know, there are many ways to define what an avocado, because if it comes from Ethiopia, from mix from Peru or from Colombia, it's gonna be different, which is not a stupid argument. You could argue. Like, we all know plants move different different countries. So you know, I mean, if it comes from Colombia or from Africa, you could argue that FedEx profile is gonna be different. So but now all these countries have agreed that it should be within this limit.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:39:26
And even within the ways in this limit, you can, you know, I'm sure some folks will find ways to, like, you know, cheat a bit on the side maybe. But at least it's gonna narrow the bandwidth a lot. So let's not be too negative. What what what I'd like to tell you is that, you know, what we're trying to do as plan is to also to explain to consumers that, going with a product that is 100% fully refined, Like, a lot of people are buying avocado or that is 100% for refined, and they're saying they're thinking it's much better for me. It's awesome. I should take this product.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:40:01
As a oil maker, it's a bit excessive to say that, you know, that what makes avocado that great is the antioxidant that are naturally in the oils. But if you refine it fully, you strip out everything or most everything. So just like folks understand today that you need to have extra virgin olive oil, what's really make is great about olive oil is the extra virgin piece is the fact that the product has not been refined. So all the natural antioxidants in olives are still in the oil. Or the ones that are soluble in a way. So as a brand, let's find what we're trying to promote. Obviously, it should be able to. It should not be cheating.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:40:36
But The point is that it should be a avocado that is not fully refined. And that's what we're trying to explain people. Come on, man. If you really gotta do this choice for nutrition and accept to pay so much more, Right. Done by a 100% refundable category or because in that case, may as well, by sense, or it's the same product. It literally has been stripped out of all its benefits. And so this cigarette seed oil is bad, but avocado oil refineries. Right? It's like, hold on a minute.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:40:57
Doesn't make any sense chemically. It's exact my organic, I only sign in Avocado is the same financing profile more or less, but if if you don't refine it, it's very different. If you fully refine it, for your health. I mean, it's almost the same. I mean, and that one costs, 30, if not, maybe even less than the others. So, you know, I'm checking it out.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:41:25
Obviously, I'm not preaching my inquiry because people only sell more stuff expensive, but what I'm trying to say, the way is that, you know, it's good to pay attention to worries, but you have to again, if it's fully refined, it's not that great. You know, and that's people with Oliver understood that no one buys extra light to Oliver anymore. Everybody buys extra virgin. Well, in Avocado right now, it's the exact same people buying extra light Avocado is thinking it's awesome. I guarantee you in a few years, they'll be like, oh, I get it. And why would I buy fully refined? But chosen Frida are donating brand. It's fully refined.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:41:51
And I'm just I'm just thinking it's the best for you. I'm like, dude, stick with extra virgin all the way. It's better for you. No. You know?

Kyle Krull - 00:42:05
Right. What I'm realizing is the level of complexity and the things that all or oil consumers are going to have to learn. Right? It's not just, I mean, it's hard enough to be a regenerative brand, right, talking about, like, soil health principles, the differences between all these different oils and the fatty acid profiles, whether or not they are or are not refined, the type of container they're in and how light affects them moving forward, are they gonna age differently? It it's The

Anthony Corsaro - 00:42:28
the culinary applications. We haven't even gotten to the coding applications and how those differ.

Kyle Krull - 00:42:32
Yeah. It's a smoke point. Like, it is it is very, very complicated.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:42:36
Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:42:36
But I do wanna draw back to something you mentioned earlier. Like, if you I think you said something along the lines of it's really important consumers to understand what regenerative means. And I could not agree with you more, and I'm curious given the level of complexity and education you all have to do as a brand, How are you thinking about regenerative education and making sure that your consumers are aware, of what this is and what it means and why it's better for them?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:43:00
Look. We are CPG guys. We don't sell all the technical stuff you talked we talked about just now. It's complex. It's difficult. You know, what we saw is emotion. You don't sound none of that. I I can't write a million words on the label. I've actually talked about her work. So some some brains do a bit in white space. But what I'm trying to say is that at the end, you're selling emotion. And so so, look, you know, I'm French. Obviously, I have no accent it's very convenient. Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:43:26
But my point is that, you know, French wine, French food is all about You know, so I don't let you know the the is really that the wine that you drink is the is the expression of the soil. So if it it grows on this parcel, it's gonna give you this flavor. If it goes on this parcel, it's gonna be this flavor. And that's been the case for 100 years because the sun exposure because the soil composition, because the underlying rocks, and so on. And so that's essentially what our brand is conveying is terra And to meet you all, it's more about emotion than an actual technical explanation. Why is it that this border is incredible and cost a thousand bucks a bottle? No one really, I mean, yeah, a few people in Most people have no clue.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:44:08
They're just like, this shit is great. Like, and so it's it's emotion. They're like, oh, this is premium stuff, you know, and, obviously, we can be mis get misleading into believing. It's amazing, even though it's, you know, 2 bug charges. Right? But so So my point here is that as a brand, what time we're trying, what I'm trying to do is we do the right thing.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:44:29
We're gonna try to push all the right things, but at the end, it's gonna be a beautiful packaging that conveys a sense quality and terawatt, then it's gonna do the job. And so that's that's that's basically what it is. So Regen. Yes. Regen is great. I no one understand how you farm stuff.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:44:44
So, like, explaining that, you know, you should have cover crops, that you should have animals, in the on the land once in a while to, like, fertilize naturally and all of that. Wow. That's gonna be a steep climb when indeed, you know, folks are not even understanding what extra virgin means. Or when, you know, but at the end of the day, if you trust the brand, if if if the brand conveys, then then then becomes the job of run, you know, to me, consumers are basically delegating to the brand, the job of doing the right thing. And that's why you were so frustrated. You're like, what? People are chatting? It's not possible in America. I mean, it should never happen. America's great. You're like, yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:45:21
Well, okay. Wake up. Many rules. But that being said, anyway, so story short that says, to me, it's about creating emotion and conveying a sense of of message.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:41
Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:45:41
Cool. It's more about selling them.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:43
It's like more about selling them a lot more and Joe, and the product just happens to be rock versus like trying to sell them Mark, basically.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:45:51
Kind of. I think I'm just trying to be realistic because, you know, since, know, we can we agree with you there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:58
And that's been a common theme across all the episodes is like it it it is always about those key purchase drivers, and it's really about those emotional purchase drivers more than it is educating on this very complex topic that's known by less than 1% of the world's

Kyle Krull - 00:46:13
Totally. Wayne, just to just to expand on that point, if you educated on everything else and or whether you did, you didn't. But if you did everything else right, but your product didn't taste great, who cares? Because nobody's gonna buy it again anyways. So I love the fact that you're leading with, like, that emotional, which is the key, you know, purchase driver, right, lead with it or sell to emotions. And do everything else, right, but know that that's not necessarily gonna be what makes somebody pick up the product and take it home with them and buy it again. So I think it's it's a great learning.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:46:39
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, what I just described with refinal cord oil and our avocado, which contains virgin avocado oil, know, I gave a technical explanation, but what I do with consumers, I said, look, it should taste good. If there is no taste, someone tripped up the taste out of it because if you don't ever go to a taste like something, If you strip it out, now you're talking over processed. If you're thinking, what's that's what I like about the current trends over, over processed food, then you should go away from it. Because that's really a very simple way of saying it. If it's gonna be over processed, you're gonna tweak nature. It's not gonna be great.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:47:05
At the end of the day, the best diets are simple. They're just, you know, vegetables, roast stuff that you cook, that you preserved in the natural nutrients in it, because it's not always available and time and 1,000,000 and so on. But so I like to say that ours tastes good, and that's what makes me good. Because if it tastes good and he does a beautiful color, all these things truly technically means it's gonna be good for you, but I'm not gonna go through the technical explanation of why. Just if you, you know, the waterworks should taste like walnuts. If it doesn't, you know, minimal would go away from the brand new bank because it's not gonna give you much. Okay. It won't let this super special to you.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:47:47
This is this is maybe a self serving question because I'm this consumer. I mean, I have usually just olive oil and coconut oil in my pantry at at a time. I don't use any of these other oils that y'all make. Do y'all think about trying to move people into a greater breath of oil consumption? Like, do you sit there and say, hey, we wanna move that type of consumer into also buying walnut oil for some reason, for some culinary application. That at anywhere in the strategy or am I totally off on that one?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:48:16
No. I guess, we should do that maybe. It turns out that we're a small country. And so, like, our our true, like, power is limited sometimes.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:48:25
If it's an idea for me, Matthieu, you probably shouldn't do it. So may maybe not, but I'm just curious.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:48:32
For you is so you're adding olive oil and coconut oil. Great. Yeah. That's yeah. Extravision olive oil is fantastic. You know, coconut oil is benefit too. What I guess when what you just described, I think what you're missing in your diet would be omega 3, and that's a it's and so you think Avita won the toy, which is gonna give you omega 3, and also just brings a bit of diversity to your side dressings when you're cooking. It's just interesting to a different flavor. So that's what I would I would add another order to be reset. Just one. Either or a one as a something that brings you the essential fatty acids that you're missing and the ones you're adding. Because all the void is super annoying, all I guess, it doesn't have the right So that's why I meet our diversity. It's like saying I'm meeting carrots.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:49:05
It's good for me carrots. Yeah. It's awesome carrots, but if you're only a carrots, not that great. Yeah. You need to also read the other, you know, like, zucchini are great too. Like, whatever, just bring something up. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:49:23
I like it. Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:49:24
You see, give it to the monoculture and your collection. I guess technically, it's a it's a biculture, but to to to focus back on degenerative principles, biodiversity and or oil diversity is really the key to health. I'm curious. I wanna, we continue to not talk about Regent, and I apologize for that. Anybody listening?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:49:44
I thought we talked about region for a long time. I think you need to be nicer to us.

Kyle Krull - 00:49:48
Okay. Yeah. I mean, we're doing great. But I wanna talk about, you know, oil is a really contentious space right now. Especially with polyunsaturated fatty acids and seed oils. Matthieu, you are obviously a wealth of knowledge in the oil space. I'm curious to get your take on, like, number 1, why seed oils are getting such a bad rep today to whether or not you think it's valid, or does it kind of fall down into some of these other categories of like, it's the way it's refined. It's the container that it's in. So give us your high level take on the Pufa controversy happening today. Yes. Well,

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:50:19
Yeah. I think there's lots of, I'm a bit surprised by some of the stuff I hear. Okay. So what people complain about, which makes sense, is that Like, they're like, look, America. Since the fifteen people are being overweight, there is massive amount of diabetes. It's terrible. Absolutely true. Look at the consumption of vegetable oil and the and the the the rate of obesity in America. It's 6. Oh my god.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:50:36
This is I'm like, no, it's freaking fast food. You know? But, yeah, fast food is veggie because if you have french fries, if you have chips, I mean, chips as 40% fat. So if you chip so you have a sandwich and you chip through your sandwich, it it's 40%. Yeah. Maybe not the best nutrition choice you could do 40% fat, and in fat, whatever fat, seed oil or not, these 120 calories were serving.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:51:01
So, it's a lot of calories.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:10
Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:51:11
When you go to a fast food place and you have, you know, a burger with a bunch of bread, which is refined flours, and then refine over, you know, refined oil and know, shitty French fries. Yeah. Man, that's really not that great. Once in a while, it's fine. But if it's a radio war, I mean, just it's horrible for you, buddy. Yeah. So that's, I mean, we know why there is a visit in the US.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:51:28
It's usually just the nutrition choices that are being made and pushed and what's made available for cheap is really not the best. And so that's where it's coming from. And, yes, veg oil is a big component of that because I mean, humans love salt, sugar, and fat. That just works really well. You put the 3 together. People are gonna fall for it. You're ready. It's welcome to French.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:51
Yeah. Guilty is charged, brother. Guilty is

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:51:56
So then, life is great. Yeah. That's essentially what it is. So so now now that turns into seed oil is bad because see the audience, but is used most of the time for. I mean, that's bullshit to me because, palm oil is horrible. Mom is a fruit. Oh my god. It's okay. It's a fruit.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:52:07
Like, what the what are you guys talking about? You know? So now I can because it's a fruit. No. It's really horrible. It's a bunch of saturated fat that's gonna turn into a cholesterol in your body. It's really not what you want.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:52:20
So, overall, he refined super hyper processed oil is not good. I agree. I'm the first one. He's due to extra virgin olive oil. But it's not because it's a seed or a tree. I mean, this is the separation that would make no sense to me. It's it's it's what is inside.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:52:34
So, you know, palm oil in the tree. Yeah. Whatever. But it's still not great. You know? So it's more.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:52:42
What is the financing profile and what is the processing What is what is the what do well, did you process the oil? If you extract the oil carefully and you don't refine it, even if it comes from seeds, it's great for you because tons of antioxidants and it's gonna make your body, like, much stronger and you're gonna age better, and it's gonna be great. If you have overly processed avocado or if you refine the hell of your olive oil, I don't know that it's that great neither. It's the same. So It so it does make sense. Yes. Indeed. Less soybean oil and high quality in your french fries. Less ongoing in your french fries. That's the logical step.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:53:12
Please, Ethan, that there's no question there. It's gonna make you better. There's no question there. Now during So should people go to olive oil? Yes. Extravage in olive oil.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:53:23
But if it's to go to refine olive oil, maybe maybe maybe not. So, yes, so the the seed oil, I think it's a simplification. I think there are there are a lot of great great stuff driving it, you know, like most of these fats and nutrition stuff, usually it's logical and it does push the needle in the right direction. But usually people tend to then come, you know, course correct later on. Be like, okay. Well, that was, you know, I remember I did buy it and everything printing and whatever. Every every every one of these trends where existed.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:53:57
But yet, there were somewhat drawn in reality, which was that indeed, I think a massive amount of over processed oil in your diet is not great. There's no question there. And I'm a widowmaker. I don't know. That's not why I'm pushing. I'd rather say less oil, but are your quality oils? That's what you want.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:54:11
And higher quality doesn't mean that it comes not from the seeds. It means that it's a it's it's a good fatty acid profile, and that, hopefully, you don't have too much refining so that you can keep the antioxidant in the way naturally. Now That's the response. Obviously, now you see some stuff online that says that omega 6 is terrible, and it's gonna give you onto your it's gonna create inflammation in your body. At this, I don't believe in it at all, and I just think it's bullshit. And I I wanna, you know, when you see with the the the the the to the medicine is saying, obviously, now I'm sure that people are like, oh my god, this is true.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:54:45
I tell you, we're like, really show me, I mean, omega- omega-ray. I mean, that's you know, I'm saying to me, it's it's self serving and they're and then you have all this love you were trying to put your own stuff in there. So you have the guys who just raised $15,000,000 to make fakeoid in a freaking lab. We're using GM or shit with fake sugars fed to, like, some weird cells. And they're like, yeah. This is much better. And so now they're gonna push it Everybody had their own agenda. So so the nutrition side around, polyunsaturated fat being bad.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:55:12
I don't buy into that, because polyunsaturated is way better than saturated fat. And, if unsaturated fat is bad, then don't have any type of avocado or olive oil because they're full unsaturated fat as well. And if Pauline and such a fan of that, sorry, dude, omega 3 are really good for you. That's why people take fish oil and and and so, look, I think at the end of the day, there is lots of different things to put in same bag and eventually it becomes seed oil is bad. That's easy to say. Right.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:55:46
If it's gonna lead you to have less overall process refined soybean oil of that joint, I'm all for it. Great. Whatever it takes, just please go to an extra virgin olive oil or good high quality avocado oil. It's great. But when you're gonna fry item furniture anyway, you're gonna need refined product. In that case, I would recommend organic and regen.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:56:00
And that's what I would recommend because that's better. And at least you're promoting the right type of agricultural practices, and it's gonna be a seed oil. It's gonna be a sense of oil. Canola may be not that great for item, but you're cooking. So what I believe in is that if you go to item cooking, go to organic, ionic, central oil. It's perfect.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:56:21
And if people think I'm crazy and stupid, they should talk to other doctors and assure the unless they went through a 20 new, the thirties was a huge believer. So the YouTube stuff runs Sidoti is a mixed bag of good stuff, and some things that are very excessive.

Kyle Krull - 00:56:42
But if

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:56:42
in the end, it pushes people to spend a bit more and buy the right quality product, why not? But if it's to buy a refined avocado or it's thinking it's the solution, Frankly, I guarantee you that it's a fan and it's BS, and it's gonna be gone in the few years, but let people do whatever they wanna do. I mean, it's fine.

Kyle Krull - 00:57:00
I can't help, but as you as you tell that story, and I really appreciate you sharing all of that. It it just reminds me so much of, like, the anti meat movement fad and how that sort of is having a backlash now in it's no longer about, like, don't eat meat. It's maybe don't eat meat from consolidated animal feed operations that are raised in unnatural environments and fed an unnatural diet. Like, do eat grass fed rotationally grazed, you know, biodiverse rich, diets that these cattle have, like, that is much better. But to your point, like, that's complex. It's really hard. It's a much harder for consumers to understand. It's a lot easier to say, all red meat is bad. You know?

Kyle Krull - 00:57:27
And, I'm wondering, like, are we gonna see a similar arc in the poof argument down the road? Like, will it be maybe it's not all seed oils. Maybe it's just a highly refined seed oil to seed oils that are generally using these high heat, you know, deep fat fryers and so on and forth. So

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:57:47
Right.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:57:47
Well, that that's the whole point there is, like, we we misguided the arrow. The arrow should be pointed at the processing and maybe not the source. And that's also what fake meat did wrong. It's like they had this overly produced product, and that was also the problem. Like, that wasn't the solution. So, Matthieu, I actually feel like we should have covered this much earlier, but can you describe how y'all process the oils and how that's different than some larger industrial, like, worse operation. Because I think another thing we see across people trying to work on regen is, like, regen doesn't just stop at the farm. It goes in through the processing and both processes are trying to be as aligned with natural systems as possible.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:58:30
Yes. Well, I'm I'm afraid I'm gonna become too technical, and then it's gonna be invaluable.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:35
Just give us give us the high level. Like, 3rd grade reading level like what Anthony could understand. You know?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:58:41
Uh-uh. Okay. I'll I'll try to keep it very simple. I mean, and, you know, that I if take anything and you try to extract the oil out of it. If it's an olive, if it's a seed, if it's a pumpkin, if it's a walnut, if it's got a Sesame seed. You know, there are so many things. So you try to extract the oil level. Usually, On grapeseed, it's only 15% oil, avocado, it's only 15%. And for one, it can go up all the way to 60% of what's inside the oil. So your job is to extract the oil.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:59:07
So you can do it different ways. You can do it physically. You can just press it or squeeze it or centrifuge it, but essentially using make any comment to separate that. That's usually the best because that's if you use chemical, you're gonna have a much higher yield of traction, but usually, you can also, like, get more bad stuff out of it with it. So most waxes are gonna come in the oil and more more things that you're gonna have to remove afterward. So so the goal is the pricing is to be careful and you wanna have a respectful, not too harsh environment process to so that you don't get all the crap out of it, or you don't destroy the antioxidant on the way.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 00:59:35
Because on the outside, you're just gonna burn them on the way. So then you have an oil. If if the seed or the fruit used to make this was clean and high quality, Then the oil is virgin, and you can actually eat the oil right right away. You may have to fix. Right? But that's it. That's gonna be your best product.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:00:02
Because you have all the natural stuff that came into the hole, and they're still there. If the product used initially is not that great, maybe it's not food grade because it touches something, whatever it is. Then you're gonna have to refine it. So now what you're gonna do, you're gonna do a bunch of processing to clean it. And that's gonna strip a lot of down to on set, and it's also quite necessary depending on the application. Mhmm.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:00:22
Now I would

Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:28
use is refining always heat? Is it always heat? Okay.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:00:32
Yes. Always. Always. Yeah. But there are ways to refine. You can do a chemical refining. You can do a physical refine. You can do a refining that you're gonna bring it for, like, you know, 2 inches or 4 inches finite for, like, an hour, or you can do it for 1 minute. So it's gonna be different. And and so there there are different ways to refine so so that's kinda what it is. Now is it bad for you?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:00:47
And you have to there is a big include what you think is philosophically bad and what is nutrition wise bad. And there are a lot of people who are or gain stuff, really, to be honest, if you ask any type of scientist to look at you, like, it doesn't make a difference. I can't see the difference in my lab, but you think it's important. So that matters. And then there are stubs that are truly important. So what's clear, again, I wanna say, if you really care for orders and you really care for nutrition, please trying to take an order that tastes good. Okay?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:01:17
Because that means they was not fully refined, and not all the stuff were stripped. Obviously, there are different way of stripping this stuff, and you you you'd rather go over the physical refining. But to be honest, there is no way you can sell on the shelf. I mean, there's no way. I mean, even as a oil specialist, you know, you really have to know your supply chain to understand how they do it because, it's gonna depend on the some ways, you can physically refine some. You just cannot. It's not gonna work. Right. So it's it then becomes quite tricky. Does it make a big difference in nutrition you could argue against it?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:01:47
You know, that's Right.

Kyle Krull - 01:01:59
I I I actually wanna on this a little bit. Number 1, AC, I really appreciate the question. And Matthieu, I really appreciate the answer because it helped me to understand, you know, as we were having this conversation, I was thinking to myself why would there be so many more refined oils? Cause to me, that feels like an extra step. But if I'm understanding what you shared, Matthieu, it's that some of these other companies that I'm generalizing here are using that chemical extraction piece to get a higher yield because then they're getting, you know, essentially, more dollars out of their product And because of that, they have those additional bribe products along with the good and the bad that they have to get rid of that they don't care about the nutritional value so that they're doing that extra refinement step to have, again, more yield, cheaper quality, and that that's why people go with high refined because it's essentially cheaper and you get more. Right?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:02:42
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, the only thing I would say in the caveat from what you just said, that you you kind of describe it as if he was a evil intent Oh my god. They're trying to make my money. No. It's just that that's the specification. Every fruit maker has the same specification, and they want refined oil because they want something that is nurturing flavor. They want loom shelf life, and they wanna be able to use it again, and that's why people refine it. It's not for the pleasure of it.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:02:58
It's because it does create a very functional product. And so it makes sense. Now is it good to have too much of that? No. And and that's what people are coming to realize because But then that goes back to the food industry and our our food system is set up. You know?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:03:12
The the food industry, us, as CPG food makers, you know, we make money at stuff. Okay? So we're trying to sell more product that is a process. If you go to a farmer's market and you don't buy anything on the supermarket, I'm not that happy because I'm trying to make money if you're selling you know, packaged foods, CPGs consuming, you know, packaged foods. So that that's kind of the the that's the food system we were building is that people have an incentive to to sell process food to folks because they make money while processing. But, anyway, I guess Trying just to say that go back to the seed oil, I think it's all about slow food.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:03:47
It's all about nutrition and trying to get back to the the roots and more, like, hey. Just go back to a bit more raw stuff. So Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Look. I'm all about this. It's simple. It's just goddamn it. Don't, you know, just make a vinaigorate yourself. It's super simple. Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:04:02
Just buy a bunch of produce and just shred it. It's not expensive. And you'll have a beautiful side, and it's gonna be incredible for your health. And and is it seed door that you use to make devinigrates or not? Frankly, at this point, your your house is great. Okay?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:04:17
Now, obviously, if you're gonna use, on a way to make this dress, you're gonna be better off using extra original avoid, high quality, I'm a category, a good monotoid, or good sesame oil, The on tea accent will be bombastic for you. It's gonna be fantastic. I have a question there. Now if you're gonna go to fried stuff, the oil has to be refined. And and so but it's not bad for you. It's just that you don't want to eat too much of it. It's just, you know, so so it's like meat.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:04:43
You're a sign. Yeah. Meat is not great for the environment, but if it but do do does it mean you have to become the end? I mean, you know, that's kind of an extreme kind of like going, yeah, why not if you think it's the right thing to do? But there are many things in between. You don't have to go from eating it every single day, every meal through, like, being a vegan.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:04:59
Maybe it's just a bit less than you. I I

Kyle Krull - 01:05:07
gotta push back. I gotta say, I think Bison's fantastic for the environment. You know, I'm just gonna throw it out there. I think, you know, it's it's the ruminant animal that belongs in North America. Well, you need more Bison on this land to restore our grass land. So I'll I'll I'll throw a devil's advocate on that one, but I totally agree with you. And I think my biggest takeaway based on everything you've shared, and I really appreciate all of the information. Is eat food that has tastes. Eat food that tastes the way is intended to taste. Which essentially means it is less refined and or less processed.

Kyle Krull - 01:05:29
And I think one thing we when we, like, take a step back, Anthony's gonna hate me for referencing this book again, but the Dorillo effect, and how we add flavors to things because we've stripped the flavor and nutritional density out of our food. Like, that's a big part of this problem. That's like a that's a cultural That's like it's really hard for a single brand or a single farmer or anybody to have to solve for, but that's why it's a point that we have these conversations and we can all learn like, how food is really made and how these processes can impact, you know, human health, predatory health, and and everything else.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:06:04
Yes. Indeed. Yeah. We're but let's rewrite optimistic. There are there are forces that are trying to push us and sell us crappy stuff. Very large company in America, which, you know, essentially thousands of employees trying every day to make you feed burgers and, like, over process franchise and crappy stuff. There are also a lot of people trying to sell the right things. So I think it's this balance of the 2 trying to push both sides. I'd rather be on the side of trying to sell the good stuff. That's why I'm degree.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:33
Yeah. We're with you there, brother. We're happy to be on the same side as you, I think. Take take us into the future. I mean, what's what's coming on the pipeline, the next 3, 5, 7, 10 years for for the brand?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:06:47
Well, more region. Look at it. You know, the organic region all the way we're launching. I'm hoping that we can transition more folks into, you know, better farming. Trying to really for us, the next few years, our electronics, I see a very small brand. And we feel we have tremendous tremendous potential. And so it's really about more communication, more advertising, being a bit more aggressive in getting our stuff out there. And I think that's really gonna be our focus, because we have tremendous growth opportunity. And I think, you know, we we we feel we have the wind in ourselves, meaning when you do organic regen stuff, you feel you have the wind in yourself. Like, it's really in your direction. All this discussion around cigars or whatever fat or whatever food trend comes up, it always pushes in the right direction of saying, yes.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:07:27
Pay attention to what you eat. And our brand is just gonna get bigger and and grow bigger because we're gonna try to do the right thing. There'll be room for a lot of different people, but that's the future. So I see our company growing quite a bit, our brand story and using this power to do the right thing. And so that's really what the future is all about. And so we're very committed to our mission, and very committed to staying independent family on this is not a short term play where, you know, when you food the company, it's like, and tears make a killing and go to Florida as we enjoy money, whatever it is.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:07:55
Now it's we're trying to be like, so It's, yeah, so I've been there for 20 years. Maybe I'll be there for another 20, but, the the role is to just, you know, pushed the right stuff, and they're here. So that's what the next year is gonna be about. So it's gonna, obviously, we're we're in France with on shoreline of sauces. We have mayonnaise. Vernes. It's the same.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:08:20
We we launched a line of sauces. They're just like you would do at home. Same ingredients, then under vacuum, no added sugar, no added preservative, tastes delicious, and the oils that we use and nutrients we use, we're trying to be intentional in picking stuff, which pushes the right. In the right direction. Obviously, it's premium. So it's still more expensive than the basic stuff.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:08:43
So but as it's gonna scale, we're gonna be a bit we'll be able to work also with supermarket that takes less margins so we can be a bit more competitive. But so that's the direction we're getting to the continent anyway. Right now only in Europe, but then it's gonna come to the US and say later this year. And and again, I think it's gonna be for us a way to have muscle we can try to push better nutrition, better better education. I wanna say we also have a lateral foundation. With my wife. We we have com a community garden. We actually partnered with Yulafarme to Fox.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:09:12
We do a depot gardens at school, and we're really trying to educate kids very basic stuff. Come to the garden, pick a tomato, cut vegetables, make a salad, realize how simple it is, how delicious it is. It doesn't have to be expensive. And your nutrition is so much better off. So we do that. So today, for example, as we speak, we have about 40 kids in our garden in which actually.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:09:34
Every service there right now, we have this filled trips. And it's really awesome to see these seven, eight, nine year old kids who are just they're like, this is the best day of my life. It's awesome. And you're like, You literally just need to run. You know, really. So that's what we that's what we do.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:09:50
So that's what so the business is being money stuck, but there the seats are really makes you happy is this type of things for your kids having a blessing in the community garden. That makes me that takes my day. Tell me that.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:05
Yeah. That's really cool. When you when you have the olive oil skew, then you'll have 3 rock skews, olive oil, flax, and sunflower, or is it just the sunflower and olive oil that are actual skews at this point?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:10:18
Yeah. So, ROC 2, actually, the all everybody is Reginaify. There's another certification body.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:24
Okay. Interesting.

Kyle Krull - 01:10:26
Nice. I think you're the only piece of head on that has 2 different certifications. I'm amazed we didn't talk about this earlier.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:10:31
Yeah. I know. Yeah. Not last year. They're financial. We're not looking right. Okay. But, you know, you gotta you gotta enable initially. So, yeah, you you work with whatever is is feasible and available.

Kyle Krull - 01:10:43
Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. What you need about is your ethos. Right? You know, it it's a good thing. But you see, take us home.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:10:50
Yeah. I mean, that's a good segue into kind of a progress over perfection mentality, which I think will underpin the answer we're gonna get on this last question, Matthieu, that we ask everybody, which is How do we get regen brands to that 50% market share by 2050?

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:11:11
Well, if obviously, I'm gonna talk about all all the void is the biggest category mean, if you look at OID in America, at retail, you essentially have vegoid, which is a big, big chunk, olive oil, which is primarily the same size trunk, and then a bunch of other OID. So if c doors and all this soybean and all these things, I mean, it's very price driven. So it's gonna be a challenge to be organic and regenerative. You could argue that a lot of this land that is used to our could just simply be a regenerative or take some of the regenerative practices, which I think is happening slowly. So that's gonna be tough to to to measure, but I think it's gonna be happening because it's the right thing and and farmers are collaborating. If you can reduce the cost of chemicals you put into your own, it's better boundary. Yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:11:50
Right. So I think that's already happening, but we can't really measure it. On the other side, can organic be the dominant stuff. I think, I mean, it's a bit challenging because if you do identity planting and olive, which is, you know, really the way the future of these days, to say you wanna be organic is you accept a significant risk, and there is a cost of risk. And and and and and and most human beings want to have extra virgin olive oil, they don't wanna pay always. Maybe they cannot pay always the premium for organic.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:12:19
So organic region, 50% market share, that's the keep climbing, you're saying, you know, that is organic, Oliver, 50% of the category. It's not. So in a sense, you need that, well, can you have, rich end practices in place? Maybe not fully organic? I think it's there is a very unlikely group because I think, governments, or I would say communities. Well, this really, really strong incentive to try to capture CO2 informing.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:12:42
And I think that's what's happening already. All the scope 1, 2, whatever, all this stuff is pushing that direction. So so it's possible. Now is it gonna be the rock or no? It's gonna be because typically rocket as a wants a lot of different elements to come together for it to be work certified, whereas maybe you're gonna be a bit more pointed on trying to make impact. So is it possible? Not in this exact current configuration, but think it's definitely the end of the future.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:13:15
I mean, look, it's global warming and and, is the reality in every single country. Every single community is adjusting to it. So by 2050, you're typing 25 years. I I think we'll have made tremendous progress in trying to mitigate some of the the production of CO2. And other gases. It's not the only one.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:13:32
So somehow, I think farming is moving the right direction. No. So, yeah, it's positive.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:13:50
I I like how you always wrap with optimism in all of your comments. I do I do enjoy that.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:13:57
Look, it's good food. Yeah. It's about having a good moment together. And Yeah. It's, you know, that's why we cook, and that's why we bring friends together on the table.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:04
So No doubt. Amen. With with homemade dressings from locker and billboards. So what wanna give all of our listeners a chance to check out the website is usually, I'll just say it, but this amount is just gonna spell it. It's l a t o u r a n g e lle.com. Lotcherandjell.com. Matthieu's holding up a shirt for the listeners who can't see it.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:16
You also can't see my card again, which I apologize for. But Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing everything. I learned way more than I I ever thought I could know about oil in this hour. And I also feel like if I sat down with you for 4 hours, my brain would just explode. With the amount I don't know about oil.

Kyle Krull - 01:14:36
So really appreciate the time. It's been fascinating to learn.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:47
Thanks for joining us. And number 2, we will do at the mill in California. So Kyle and I can actually process tomorrow. I'm looking forward. Oh, yeah.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:14:55
That'd be awesome.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:14:56
Thanks, Matthieu.

Matthieu Kohlmeyer - 01:14:57
Go cheers.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:15:01
For show notes, episode transcripts and more information on our guests, what we discuss on the show, check out our website regen-brands.com. That is regen-brands.com. You can also find our regen recaps on the website. Regen recaps take less than 5 minutes to read and cover all the key points of the full hour long conversations. You can check out our YouTube channel, ReGen Brands Podcast for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a 5 star rating on your favorite podcast platform, subscribe to future episodes, and share the show with your friends. Thanks for tuning in to The ReGen Brands Podcast brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures. We hope you something new in this episode and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:15:44
Love you guys.