#53 - Adam Hiner & Maddie Hamann @ PACHA

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #53 - Regenerative Buckwheat Bread Goes Nationwide  - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 00:00:15
Welcome to the ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers, operators and investors to learn about the consumer brands, supporting regenerative agriculture and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my co-host ac who's going to take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:33
On this episode, we have Adam Heiner and Mattie Hammond who are the co-founders at PACHA. PACHA is supporting Regenerative Agriculture with its lineup of organic and regenerative buckwheat bread products including three flavors of bread and one SKU of buns. In this episode, we learn how PACHA found a reliable source of regenerative buckwheat through an innovative farmer partnership and how they're rolling out their products nationally into Whole Foods as we speak. This was a fun one. Y'all. Let's go. What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the ReGen Brands Podcast. We are very excited today to have Maddie and Adam from PACHA joining us and they have their little one with them, Amina who's gonna join us as well.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:07
So if you hear some baby sounds, that is called Co Parenting and co founding an early stage Regen brand. So welcome y'all.

Maddie Hamann - 00:01:26
Yeah,

Adam Hiner - 00:01:27
we just gave a way

Kyle Krull - 00:01:32
there is a surprise third guest here. Um So we may or may not get some, some additional sounds here and there, but that's totally OK. We're, we're here for it. Um So for those who are not familiar with PACHA, give us a quick like lay of the land of what sort of products do you produce? What categories are you in? Where can people find you today? What flavors do you have? Give us that, that high level overview.

Maddie Hamann - 00:01:55
So, PACHA is a right now. We make gluten-free buckwheat bread, we make just bread and buns. Um and we are, we can be found now nationwide at Whole Foods and also a few retail locations in Southern California, small chains like a one and um Mother's Markets and Crystal Farms uh soon will be on the east coast in mom's markets and actually a lot of our business is done online. We have uh we, we ship direct to consumer and um yeah, anything else we're missing?

Adam Hiner - 00:02:42
I think you

Kyle Krull - 00:02:43
use the flavors. What, what are the, what are the skews you have and what flavors

Adam Hiner - 00:02:46
the flavors we've got. So our original recipe, buckwheat loaf and the buns are the original recipe. Only two ingredients, buckwheat and salt. Um fermented, you know, wild fermented. So it's a natural sour dough and sprout it as well. And then we have two flavored loaves. Those are cheesy herb. The cheese flavor comes from nutritional yeast. So it's still vegan. And then we also have garlic rye. So it's kind of like a, also quote unquote rye because we're not using rye flour. But we're actually using caraway seed to impart the rye flavor.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:19
Interesting.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:20
Let's go. Yeah, we have not tried it yet. I have it on my list for, for this, uh, Whole Foods roll out to go, to, go give it a shot. Um, but it's really interesting, I think from the previous conversation that we've had some of the ways that y'all have built this thing specifically the ecommerce piece, but just talk about why y'all started this brand as a couple and, and what's the origin story?

Adam Hiner - 00:03:45
You wanna go

Maddie Hamann - 00:03:47
un

Adam Hiner - 00:03:50
so, so I actually came across um, well, first of all, I personally, um before we started this brand, before we started this brand, uh I wasn't eating gluten and so I hadn't eaten bread in years and I actually, in the early stages, didn't know Maddie yet. And um came across this bread, a buddy of mine shared the recipe with me and I was just obsessed with it. Like I was having him make it for me all the time. And then eventually he left town and I continued to make uh the bread for myself and started, you know, iterating it at home and making it at home. And um and I was just like blown away that I could have bread again, that it was nutritious that it wasn't um gluten-free bread with a bunch of binders and fillers and stuff at the store that I just wasn't interested in eating. And um shortly after I had been introduced to the bread, I brought it to an event and shared it with Maddie when I met her for the first time. Um That was actually how I how I won.

Adam Hiner - 00:04:37
Maddie was feeding her some, some gluten-free bread that she, that she loved. And so that was kind of a piece of art like origin story as well was just this bread being involved in our first meeting. And um and yeah, so over time, just like, really was clear that the not only the market, like our friends and family and people that we knew their own businesses and restaurants needed organic gluten-free bread and wanted it. And then it just became clear that like this thing was happening and it wasn't really like we were like, we're gonna start the business, but the business kind of just like pulled us in and we had no choice but to but to launch PACHA. So that's really the origin story.

Maddie Hamann - 00:05:30
Yeah. And for, for me, I was actually um I was finishing my phd at Scripps Institution of Motion Gray when I met Adam. And um the reason that I was studying oceanography was because I wanted, you know, I wanted to do something related to climate change. I wanted to like make a difference with this problem that I was seeing in the world and to be quite honest, I through going to grad school and learning what we know about the planet. I was like, oh, we don't actually need to know more like, of course, we need to know more for other reasons, but as it relates to climate change, like we know enough to get started and nothing is happening. And so the idea of um you know, Adam has started businesses in the past and just witnessing how his businesses were being used to promote positive change through markets. Um made me think, oh, like that actually, that actually seems like a a worthwhile place to put your energy. Um So for me, I transitioning from oceanography into bread was quite a sense I know, not literally but pun intended and um came, came, came to the team shortly after Adam had gotten the ball rolling. I was like, OK, I wanna do this.

Kyle Krull - 00:07:14
So I was gonna say that it's a really interesting origin story. And one of the odds that the bread that Adam happens to be making is using buckwheat, which happens to be one of the most inherently regenerative and climate positive crops that we can grow in North America. Um It really feels like a stars aligned kind of moment there for the two of you. Um So I guess uh I see ac I'm curious what you were gonna ask.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:37
Yeah, just Adam, I'm curious if you had a specific like health scare or health event or something that led you to be gluten free or like, what's the origin of that need that you had personally?

Adam Hiner - 00:07:46
No, I'm, you know, I'm not like 100% gluten-free. I still do eat like organic, you know, really well made sourdough or if there's really good quality gluten, I will eat it. And I'm not actually super like, I'm not really gluten sensitive but just for, for health reasons, I've kind of been down a health journey the past 20 years of just like slowly going from like kind of mainstream diet in my early twenties to like all organic and then all made from scratch. And then I started a catering company and, and a restaurant and we made everything from scratch and learning about organic food and um partnering with a lot of organic farms and diving into regenerative agriculture. So it's just been this kind of journey of like starting with like knowing nothing about health and wellness to like really going through the gamut of that and going through phases of trying out different, you know, eating patterns, whether it be more paleo or more grain free and going 100% gluten-free for a time and just seeing how that affected my body and um eventually kind of coming to this balance of just like wanting to only eat really good food made from scratch that was grown in a good way and coming from, like, people that cared about the, whether it be the crops or the animals that they're, that they're raising. So that's kind of where I believe it just eating really good food that's, that's made from scratch.

Kyle Krull - 00:09:10
Mhm. It's interesting to hear your background is so ingrained and entrenched in the food systems. Right. In, in restaurants. And like that, I think you're bringing a lot more like food experience to the table than a lot of the founders that we talked to, which is really interesting. I'm curious, you mentioned regenerative down that rabbit hole of food that you have gone down. When did regenerative become like a topic that you were interested in? How did you first hear about it? What was that initial response? Like walk us through that first exposure?

Adam Hiner - 00:09:39
Yeah. Um for me, it was in the catering company, we were sourcing food for um you know, for the catering company from local farms. And my job was really in San Diego to like to meet local farmers and, and source, you know, as much as we could from them. And then through that, through that journey, um I actually became involved with a farm down here, a nonprofit farm called Wild Willow. And um it's a, a regenerative nonprofit farm. So it's really a training ground for farmers to learn about regenerative agriculture. And I eventually, over time after becoming like a supporter of the farm, I became uh one of the board members there. And just, you know, ever since that, that time, I've been diving into regenerative agriculture and trying to understand, you know, what it is that we can do to help reverse climate change. And from my perspective, being in the food industry, regenerative agriculture is everything.

Adam Hiner - 00:10:20
So I've kind of really like dove into this, into this subject in a lot of ways and learned a lot and home gardening, growing food at home and doing things like that as well to learn more about, about regenerative agriculture.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:10:50
Yeah, I think you're, I think you're on a podcast with a couple of guys that would, would be comparable and the same gusto for the topic, obviously. Um I'm curious why y'all started off with such a strong ecommerce strategy. I'm thinking in my head, OK, processed product, even though it's very minimally processed and very minimal ingredients, frozen product, right? That's gotta be challenging. So what, what was the impetus there? And just how has that journey been on the, the D to C side?

Maddie Hamann - 00:11:19
Well, we, I say we didn't actually start as an ecommerce brand. So, yeah, and in the beginning, we definitely were planning to be a national retail brand. That was, that was the, that was the strategy. And to

Kyle Krull - 00:11:39
give us, give us a timeline, you say in the beginning, like when is the beginning? Was that two years ago? Was that five years

Maddie Hamann - 00:11:45
ago? That's exactly what I was going to say we founded the company in April of 2020. So, you know, we had all the pieces and everything was like starting to come together, right? As COVID was holding, so we, we just ran into probably more challenges in terms of getting into grocery accounts than you would normally like grocery accounts just were like not, they were, weren't even doing resets in the beginning of the and throughout the early years. So we, you know, we started in this 300 square foot kitchen like a test kitchen and we were pitching Whole Foods like starting in like June or July of that year. Um Thank God, we didn't get Whole Foods then because it would have been a total shit show.

Adam Hiner - 00:12:38
Um But

Maddie Hamann - 00:12:41
yeah, we, you know, we were pitching, we were pitching grocery stores and having limited success and getting into like a few chains here in Southern California. But at some point along the way, um our direct consumer consultant, his name is Jordan Frank. He's awesome. Um He actually approached us and said, hey, like, I think that this, this could be a successful e-commerce brand. And um and so we did a little test with him and it had some traction and, you know, with limited success in grocery stores, we were like, ok, let's, let's pull the ecommerce. And so, yeah, it's become the primary like, yeah, right now it's the primary source of revenue for the company. Um And as we grow. I imagine that it will, it may become a smaller part. Um

Adam Hiner - 00:13:35
Well, actually as of this month, it's become 50% of our revenue because Whole Foods. So we're now kind of finding that balance between ecommerce and um and retail, which I think is really healthy for a company to be, have that direct relationship with the consumer and have a big aspect of direct to consumer. But then also on the shelves in the grocery store and meeting most of the customers where they are in the grocery store and having that presence. It's, it's a really nice combination. Yeah,

Maddie Hamann - 00:14:04
it's super nice to be able to send an email to your customers and say, hey, can you give us some feedback?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:14:11
Uh I'm I'm super curious about two things. One from an e commerce perspective, we know it's been challenging from ac ac customer acquisition cost perspective since I OS 14. What have you all done there? It seems like y'all had some success and then two, how are you planning to leverage this footprint of ecom customers now that you need them to go into Whole Foods and buy the product too?

Maddie Hamann - 00:14:33
Ok. So yeah, c A issue since I os 14. Mhm. Um We I os 14 remind me that came in like 2020 22.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:14:51
Yeah, I'm trying to remember exactly. Um

Maddie Hamann - 00:14:55
I think it was about a year ago. So basically um that happened really shortly after we started our, our ecommerce push

Anthony Corsaro - 00:15:05
September of 2020. So, yeah, a few months after y'all

Adam Hiner - 00:15:09
launched September of 2020. September of 2020.

Maddie Hamann - 00:15:14
Yeah. So it was something that, you know, we were like, Jordan was thinking about it, but it just, it was what we were working with and we've managed to get pretty good customer acquisition costs, like for the market, the current market. Um, yeah, we have people come in there like what your acquisition cost? $16. That's ridiculous. Like how did you do that? And I just think we have a really a really scrappy, really talented team that is, is doing things what we're primarily leveraging the algorithm on meta um to, to, to, you know, decide where ad spend goes and it's doing a pretty good job.

Adam Hiner - 00:15:57
And, you know, the product I think is just one that it's, it's in high demand. People want uh gluten free bread that doesn't have a lot of ingredients and binders and fillers. And we're the only organic gluten free bread on the market. And so I think it's, you know, it's very desirable product and so people are seeing it and, and purchasing it more. So it's we have high conversion rates on the website,

Maddie Hamann - 00:16:19
super high conversion on the website,

Anthony Corsaro - 00:16:22
the products are very unique, right? So if I order it once online, it's not like I can go to a store and get something comparable, I mean, or the same, I might be able to get something comparable but really not so much. So, I love the stickiness factor there.

Maddie Hamann - 00:16:34
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are like maybe a handful of bakeries, like little mom and pop bakeries that make a similar bread. But as far as a binder, free gluten free bread, this is it.

Kyle Krull - 00:16:52
And when all this started in this like launch phase, is it just the, the single buckwheat loaf at this point or are there multiple skews coming in? What are the innovation? Ar

Adam Hiner - 00:17:02
Yeah, we launched with, we launched with four skews and those have shifted a little bit and our recipes have shifted over time, but we launched with the, with the buns and the loaf and two flavored skews. Actually three flavored skews in the beginning, we had five skews in the middle. We've, we've trimmed them down a little bit to be more streamlined.

Kyle Krull - 00:17:21
It's really surprising. I would have assumed you started with like just the buckwheat loaf and you innovated from there because of customer demand. So my whole conversation, rabbit hole is planning to go down has just been, you know,

Adam Hiner - 00:17:31
well, no, we were gonna be pitching grocery stores around that. It was like, we knew that we needed to pitch at least three or four skews to be like, have a shelf presence. Like grocery stores are like, oh, you have one SKU that doesn't really like too much for the shelf. So we kind of knew we're gonna be pitching Whole Foods and things like we wanted to be able to at least put 3 to 4 skews and the grocery stores always say, tell us your top whatever and then we're gonna take the top three or so. So like we wanted to have like four or five so that like we could give them the option to trim down one or two and still have a good presence on the grocery store shelf. So, coming from the background in um consumer packaged goods that I have, I just had had experienced that with my other brand.

Maddie Hamann - 00:18:14
And also, you know, starting with a foodie here are we thought that our primary SKU was going to be the cheesy herb because it was like, it was just this delicious. It has shifted somewhat since we began. Um We now no longer use sunflower or flax. And we also had like a larger variety of herbs in the, in the bread. We've simplified it a lot. But yeah, it was like, it was just so tasty. We were like, oh my gosh, people are going to love this. Um And then actually what happened is we were making the cheesy herb into a bun and our, our business partners um who own it. So our business partners are actually a vegan cafe here in San Diego called Trilogy Sanctuary.

Maddie Hamann - 00:18:47
And um we were making the buns for them and they were just like, it's too much flavor like for, for a bun to have like such a strong flavor profile. It was, it wasn't quite what they were looking for. So we actually innovated in the early stages to, to create a simpler um buck just simple buckwheat bread option. And then that became our, that became our number one SKU. And it also became kind of the inspiration for us to simplify the other recipes and make, make it about buckwheat. Really?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:19:42
That's, that's a really good segue into I think the next section of what we want to talk about, which I would call the buckwheat love section. Um And I'm really interested in what the arc was on a sourcing side, right, Adam. So like you were committed to buckwheat, you would have this bread, you wanted to produce it, obviously, that probably started at a smaller scale than it's at now. What is that sourcing journey? Like been like, how have you found organic buckwheat? Have you like, did you source the raw product and make it into flour? Did you just source flour? Like how when did Regen come into place? So just like take us through that whole sourcing journey because I feel like that. That'd be very interesting.

Adam Hiner - 00:20:16
Yeah, it's been quite the journey I should say. Um But we've always been organic. So we've always been sourcing organic buckwheat. We started out using a local supplier here in um San Diego that supplies mostly to restaurants and whatnot. Like £25 bags, £50 bags and we were buying from them. But then like as we were growing, we would have times especially during COVID when things were really getting funky with supply chain where like they would run out of buckwheat and we would be like, oh, we need to find some buckwheat. So we would literally run around to every single grocery store and buy all the buckwheat compose and people's co op. And like, we like literally go to every grocery store in town and buy all their organic buckwheat. Yeah, it was like, you know, it was like COVID the sections like we're actually, they were still putting in little containers and we were like buying all these containers and we're like an anti plastic brand and we're just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we're having to source our buckwheat in this way. But um it was a brief period and it made us really um really scout hard to figure out our buckwheat sourcing. So we eventually found a mill in the Midwest that sources 100% from um from farms in the Midwest, from us based farms.

Adam Hiner - 00:21:15
And that was like a saving grace. We started ordering from them. We could order at a pallet of at a time in our, you know, 300 square foot kitchen. We were literally storing the buckwheat in the hallway like we didn't have space for, we would put it on this big rack and we would like, we would actually like hand unload all the £50 bags onto the rack. And then we would like, at the end of the day, we would like wheel the rack inside the kitchen and it was just like barely, the doors would like, just barely closed. And then when we start production, we'd open up, we wheel it out and we'd be kind of like halfway out in the hallway.

Adam Hiner - 00:22:02
Um So even that was like, uh you know, kind of crazy because we were like receiving pallets at this place that was not a manufacturing facility. It was just like a bunch of ghost kitchens and, you know, little small food places that were making small stuff for farmers markets and like, we're receiving pallets and like trying to ship pallets out to distributors and stuff and it was just chaos. Um

Maddie Hamann - 00:22:32
Not to mention, like utilizing 50% or more of the shared freezer space. It was like, and then they were

Adam Hiner - 00:22:37
like, oh, we have it upstairs where you have to like walk upstairs to get to it. We're like hauling, you know, bags of things upstairs and it was just like, oh, there was total chaos in that place. Um And then we eventually moved into our current facility and we could finally like, there's like, it was like heaven sent like, oh my gosh, we have two loading docks and two ramps and we have a forklift now and we have like big bay doors and just like we have a huge walk in refrigerator, um, walk in freezer those stairs. And, you know, so we were still sourcing from that, um, from that mill in the Midwest and, and growing our, our demand there. And then the conversation about regenerative came into play. And, you know, we realized early on that, like we really want, we knew early on that we really wanted to go that route. And we started having conversations with the mill about regenerative and then conversations with, with a couple of the farms that the mill was sourcing from. And they were kind of just like, what do you want me to do? Like regenerative? What?

Adam Hiner - 00:23:35
But then again, we've got to figure this thing out like we're, we're committed to this and right around that same time, we were like running low on buckwheat with what we had contracted with the mill and we needed a little extra for that year. And another buckwheat brand, actually, Little Bucks Emily from little Bucks introduced us to a farmer that was farming buckwheat and also sourcing it from other farms. And we talked to this farmer and it was just like, it was perfect timing just like he was like, oh, yeah, I'm working on getting certified regenerative and you should talk to this Regenerative certification and I can get you all the buckwheat you need for the rest of this year. And I can also like figure out your regenerative buckwheat and source it from all the farms, like we'll lock in your regenerative buckwheat. And so that relationship, um, has been incredible and now we're sourcing 100% of our buckwheat from that farm. We still have the relationship with the mill, you know, in place in case we run into shortages, but we're pretty much sourcing 100% from, from John from um, field theory and, and getting 100% regenerative buckwheat.

Adam Hiner - 00:24:35
Now, starting as of like this month, actually, the regenerative certified buckwheat starting to come in.

Kyle Krull - 00:24:56
That's incredible. I'm uh I mean, what, what a bountiful conversation that was, you know, here, I'll give you all the book, what you need and it's gonna be regenerative and uh here's a certification buddy. Good to go solve all the problems. One

Adam Hiner - 00:25:09
conversation. I'm already working with the certification. He introduced us to the certification body that we are now like getting certified through and, and there was a lot of other conversations like I spoke with a mill, one of the other large mills in the US and they wanted to sell us buckwheat, like triple what we were buying it from the other mill. And I was just like, this doesn't make sense. At some point. I thought we were just like out of options. I was like, I guess this is, this is what we've got. But

Kyle Krull - 00:25:34
yeah. Well, I wanna talk about two things number one, buckwheat was just identified as a trend at Whole Foods as being one of the top 10 trends for 2024. Um I think they're spot on. I want to talk a little bit about the versatility of buckwheat and why that's such an incredible ingredient, not just for food and human consumption, but for like the agronomy piece and what it does for the land. So I would love to get your take on that. And then part two, we've mentioned the certifying body. Um Let's identify who that certifying body is and talk about what that partnership looks like.

Maddie Hamann - 00:26:05
Yeah, I'll talk about the the buckwheat piece. Um Yeah, I mean, so buckwheat is a cover crop, which is just one of the, one of the main techniques that is used in regenerative farming is just, just to simply have roots in the ground year round so that your top soil isn't going anywhere. Um Buckwheat is great because it has a ton of little tiny flowers that attract lots of different kinds of pollinators. It's not specifically bees, it's like all kinds of different beetles and um and and different different different critters that create a very biodiverse ecosystem, um encourages lots of birds and lots of other animal life to come into, into the into the system. Um From the farming perspective, buckwheat is really awesome because it has a short grow cycle and so very often buckwheat can be grown in between planting seasons or as an additional crop. So, rather than having to convert a field so that they're growing buckwheat instead of corn, they get to grow buckwheat and corn. So all of a sudden these farmers are able to double down on their income from a field. Um, yeah. Am I missing anything?

Kyle Krull - 00:27:29
I want to touch on that cover crop piece and the doubling down real quick, you know, like you mentioned, you know, typically that land might be fallow or unproductive or a different cover crop that's not, not market viable, can be, can be sold, right? So buckwheat, what gets me so pumped up about buckwheat is it gets to serves as an option to be a cover crop which is healthy for soil. And at the same time, incentivize farmers to use these good practices, keep that micro or the soil microbiome alive. Um and it can be implemented on tons of different grain farms across the country everywhere. So developing this buckwheat market is such a critical piece for like saving the soil in North America, in my opinion. So really, really pumped about that

Adam Hiner - 00:28:09
and it sells for a premium, which is just another benefit to the farmer like when they're used to selling corn soy or wheat or some, you know, some other grains like they're getting such a premium for buckwheat, I think compared to some of those other grains. And so not only are they getting a field that would have been followed to be pro you know, to bring in cash, but they're also selling it at a premium. So,

Maddie Hamann - 00:28:33
yeah, and this kind of segues into the, the um the certifying body piece. But it also just John, the farmer that we're working with is a total godsend, right? Like it is very rare for a farmer to just be like I really care about, I think this is the future and I care about regenerative agriculture and I want to do it because it's the right thing to do. And that's where, that's where he's at. But most farmers are like, man, I got to make a buck. This is how I've done it for my entire life. This is how my dad did it is, I've got all this equipment. I, you know, you're telling me that you want me to stop using pesticides, start implementing these practices that may or may not be effective.

Maddie Hamann - 00:29:11
Um So the, the buckwheat being something that's viable as an additional income source is a piece that like can be used to get people who frankly don't give a shit about regenerative agriculture to start converting. Um which is amazing. And um there was one other little piece that,

Adam Hiner - 00:29:44
that's exactly, I mean, that's exactly what John has done though. You know, so sourcing our buckwheat like John went out and found five farms in addition to his own that weren't already growing buckwheat and convinced them to grow buckwheat for us and secured 1000 acres of regenerative buckwheat for us for this year, um, with a bunch of farmers that, you know, were contacts of his, but they, they weren't already certified regenerative and they weren't already growing buckwheat. And so that's just like, I think, dream come true for us. Like not, we're not just buying buckwheat that was already being, being grown regenerative. We were like going to farms and finding farms that are not certified, getting them certified and then, you know, adding buckwheat to their to their crop rotation, which is awesome.

Maddie Hamann - 00:30:30
Yeah. And I remember so it segues into the um the certifying body that we're working with is called the Soil Carbon Initiative. And they are actually not. So like we've got the um regenerative Organic Certification, which is kind of like the, the gold star, the like highest ultimate regenerative. Um Well, carbon initiative is not uh just for organic farms. They are, they will certify the 99% of farmland. Um that is not, you know, we still only have 1% of our farmland that's actually organic. Um And so this is, this is kind of an interesting thing, right? Because there's, there's definitely a conversation about regenerative, being a buzzword.

Maddie Hamann - 00:31:08
Um but this certifying body is doing some really good science based work to look at, look at soil health. So they are measuring, they're measuring the, the soil carbon. Do you, do you remember the, the actual metrics. There's like seven or eight of them. I don't know. That's something that's information we could get for you later. But they, they're measuring several different metrics um over time and working with farmers in, in several, several pillars.

Maddie Hamann - 00:31:46
Basically, they, they have like um seven regenerative pillars that farmers can start working in, including like, you know, retaining water and diversifying crops and um removing composting, like removing pesticides. Farmers can start doing things and they don't have to be doing everything right at the beginning in order to be making progress towards certification. So they're kind of like removing that barrier to entry for the 99% of farmers to, to convert to regenerative practices.

Adam Hiner - 00:32:36
They're really under soil carbon. It's all about setting a baseline. Um and saying, ok, this is where you're at as a farm and then progressing and becoming better each year doing soil tests, implementing more regenerative practices each year. And that is the requirement for certification, not, you have to jump over this crazy high bar. That's like way out of reach right now for you. And then you're never gonna like, you know, never gonna be able to make it to that. And you know, it's gonna take you 5, 10 years to get to that point. So carbon is like, let's just start making progress and getting there. So I think it actually is going to make a big difference for farms to be able to just take those small steps rather than have to jump over that, you know, that huge bar, which is, seems unattainable.

Kyle Krull - 00:33:22
Um, I'm super pumped that we've got, uh an SC I brand on the podcast. We haven't had an SC I brand before we consider S CIA friend. Um, we know Kristen. Well, we know Adam. Well, they are fantastic people. Um, and we couldn't agree more with everything you just spelled out with the level of importance for that work. If you know, I and I totally agree, Rock is sort of like, you know, high bar, very high integrity, really great. If everybody could be Rock tomorrow, we absolutely want that. But the reality is like you mentioned, less than 1% of land is organic. And if Rock is the only regenerative certification that becomes widely accepted, we're gonna end up making a fraction of that 1% better and ultra premium rather than implementing and incentivizing farmers to start getting these principles and practices on the other 99% of arable land in the United States. So number one, just shout out to working with sc I great people. Um and we're, we're just excited to, to learn about that. I'm curious from your perspectives. How do you balance that like organic integrity?

Kyle Krull - 00:34:10
Because, you know, honestly, when we started talking about certifications, I thought based on what you shared previously, Adam, like you were all organic way down the rabbit hole. I thought you're gonna like regenerative has to be organic. How do you all navigate that like balance with, you know, partnering with somebody like se I but maintaining that organic integrity for like the consumer facing side of your brand.

Maddie Hamann - 00:34:48
Mhm Yeah. Well, so for, for our brand personally, like we're certified organic, so we're only sourcing, we're only sourcing our ingredients from organic farms to begin with. Um So we, we have that organic certification piece in place already. That, that does limit us as to like who we can work with. Um But the the piece of like sc I being able and willing to work with all of the other farmers, it doesn't necessarily like relate to our brand specifically, but the fact that we're working with them and, you know, helping them to continue this work, I also should say like many farmers don't farm 100% organic. A lot. Most farmers have a mix of organic, farmers have a mix of fields, some are organic certified and some are not. And so, you know, we can, we can have a touch point with farmers who have organic fields and get them farming our organic regenerative buckwheat and then who knows that might leak into some of their other fields as well. Hopefully. Right.

Adam Hiner - 00:36:03
Or organic is the gateway

Kyle Krull - 00:36:05
drug or the gateway crop.

Adam Hiner - 00:36:07
Yeah. Yeah, you totally bring up a good point and I actually struggled with that when I first learned about it with sc I just internally I was like, oh, wait, so you'll certify like a Monsanto farm that just says they're gonna start doing better and they're like, well, there's, you know, there is some minimum things like they have to be working towards like, you know, four of these five pillars and everything. And so I was, and after sitting with a while I just realized like that. Yeah, II I kind of wanted that um that perfect situation where we're getting like buckwheat from the most regenerative farm in the world. And it's like rock certified. But I just realized after speaking with the sc I folks long enough and understanding what they were doing that it was really something that will move the needle so much farther to allow everyone into the fold, but like allow them into the fold if they're ready to like actually make improvement. It's not like they're just the soil carbon folks like know their soil science really well and they are actually doing soil testing and like making sure that there's progression.

Adam Hiner - 00:37:03
So, um so I have full faith that like they're not, they're not allowing farms to get certified, they're not doing the work. And so, um yeah, I'm really glad that we, that we took that leap and that we, we are where we are right now because um you know, I don't even know that we could have gotten certified through rock. You know, there's not really, there's like one or maybe two farms that, um, are certified rock that have buckwheat. And so trying to convince a farm that's not certified rock to go get certified rock is a really huge mile like obstacle. So I think that I'm really grateful for, you know, to be able to work with SC I and to get our, and to get our product certified. Yeah,

Anthony Corsaro - 00:37:58
there's a, there's a lot of layers here, a couple of things that are coming up to mind for me is one is a hot take of the biggest mistake that the organic movement made was they never put in place a transition program. And I don't even think regenerative would be a thing had like the NOP the O D A like all circled the wagons and said, OK, we have the USDA standard, but now we're gonna define this transition pathway because it, it is not the same thing as organic, but ultimately regenerative is basically just that transition pathway like the the gold star is still regenerative organic. Um So that's my hot take slash observation there. And then I think just to, to frame the buckwheat up thing, you know, just one more piece is just conservation practices like cover cropping or journal value practices like cover cropping are typically a cost center for the farmer. So when you can make it a profit center, you enable the land piece. But I think what's usually missing from the conversation is the market validation from an SE I or any other certification program to bring it through the supply chain, which is like the whole reason we do this podcast is it's ok to change the practice. But if there's actually like, if those, if those market incentives don't reach all the way to the end brand product consumer, we really haven't totally validated this thing and like gotten the whole chain around it. Um So we have to have that form of market validation.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:59
It just has to be, you know, high integrity and, and transparent and, and legit.

Kyle Krull - 00:39:22
Yeah, I want to pivot a little bit away from the agronomy because I can spend all day here. This is usually a C's job is to pull me out of the Agronomy. Um But I'm curious to know it sounds like you two started approaching retailers really quick, really early on and with good success. So I'm curious from like a brand new brand perspective. How did you end up getting that traction early on? Was it certain broker partners? Was it previous experience? Did you have existing relationships? Um kind of walk us through the retail strategy and why you've been able to succeed the way you have in such a short period of time?

Adam Hiner - 00:39:52
Well, yeah, I'd say that we didn't necessarily succeed, you know, right out of the gate. I mean, we did get some small wins in Southern California and we do have a broker, we work with a, a broker called Cultivate. And they're a small niche broker that have like a lot of contacts in the industry that know all the frozen buyers and all the grocery stores. And we've, I mean, for the, since 2020 since we launched in about, I think we partnered with them in September. So we launched in April and we partner with them in September of 2020. We've pitched like almost every grocery store in the country. And we got a lot of no. And we got, and you know, and I know that's part of the game. You know, it's just like, OK, you pitch them, they say no, they don't say why they give you zero feedback and then you pitch it again the next year. And um at some point along the pathway, we were just kind of like what's wrong?

Adam Hiner - 00:40:29
Like everyone loves our bread that's eating it. We, we're doing really well with like direct to consumer. But like for some reason, these grocery store buyers are saying no, and they're not giving us any feedback. And one of the grocery store buyers said something like they didn't give us any feedback, but they were like, we're feeling like we just want to get like sliced bread and buns is like what we're actually looking for. And we were like sliced bread. We need to, we, and we kind of always knew that we need to start slicing our bread but it was like such a big hurdle. Like you have to buy slicing equipment and like figure this whole thing out.

Adam Hiner - 00:41:06
So then we decided like, OK, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna pitch Whole Foods and sprouts and we're gonna send them sliced bread. I'm gonna hand slice it meticulously. So it looks like it went through a professional slicing machine. And so like perfectly sliced bread probably better than the slicing machine. Honestly, I had my son bread knife, you know. Yeah. And we sent them like they say yes, we have to figure out how to slice our bread before the launch.

Adam Hiner - 00:41:26
You know, like this is gonna be figured out. So we, we said Whole Foods Global buyer sliced bread and they, and they said yes. And that was like the first big win that we've actually had in retail. And it just like it makes sense like our bread is in the frozen section and it's not sliced like no one wants to buy a frozen brick of bread. You know, like, what do we do with this? Do I like?

Adam Hiner - 00:41:54
Do I need to bake this, take it or do I take it home and defrost it then do I slice it then I put it back in the fridge or like it's a confusing offering for retail. So it was just like it took us a little bit to really commit to that and understand like this is what we need and I think it's going to really improve our direct to consumer business as well. I think people buy it often times and they get it home and they're just like, oh, like, I've never sliced anything before. Like people, they're not like we can't just the same. Everyone knows how to slice a loaf of bread.

Maddie Hamann - 00:42:38
So I will say it is excessively convenient to just be able to go into your freezer and pull out a piece of bread and pop it in your toaster and not have to pull out your cutting board and knife. Like you would be amazed that that would like our, we live with a guy who's like not much of a cook really.

Adam Hiner - 00:42:58
We should say we live with our co-founders that own the vegan cafe. So you know, you have bread away his

Maddie Hamann - 00:43:06
identity here. Their their,

Adam Hiner - 00:43:09
their bread consumption has gone up way like skyrocketed since we've brought home sliced bread. Like it's a big difference. So

Maddie Hamann - 00:43:17
we have like this is partial loaves that they just die in the fridge,

Kyle Krull - 00:43:23
right? I'm I'm literally laughing so hard that we're spending this much time on sliced bread just because of the the colloquial phrase of like, you know, the best things of sliced bread. Number one, number two, Adam, a statement that we can't just assume that everybody can slice bread, which if we live in a time when that's true, I don't, I don't know how I feel about, you know, the trajectory for humanity and if we're gonna make it,

Adam Hiner - 00:43:47
we've got, they're just like, how do I slice it? And I'm just like, what's your question exactly? Like, like what knife do I use? And I'm like, oh man, OK.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:43:57
It is a great example though of when you're an emerging brand, a lot of people think only about velocity in terms of driving off shelf and you have to also increase consumption and I'm gonna give myself a little bit of credit because the first call I had with you all, I was like, are you all gonna start slicing the bread when you go to retail? I feel like you slice the bread and you're like, yeah, so gold star for me for, for, for asking that question and I'm proud of myself. Um but it is something like stupid simple that really affects like how fast it moves through someone's kitchen or the freezer and then they're gonna buy another loaf which all the brands that are at y'all stage, like really need to be cognizant of that. So I think it's actually really important to talk about.

Maddie Hamann - 00:44:37
Yeah,

Kyle Krull - 00:44:39
I also want to talk about, I think there's a Oh, sorry, I'm gonna keep going. There's some preconceived notions around frozen gluten free bread. Sorry, I I just got to keep rolling before it lags again. Um But kind of describe like, what is the, the texture feel like? What does the taste feel like compared to a regular bread. Um just so our consumers can better understand like, is this a bread that I want to consume?

Maddie Hamann - 00:45:05
Yeah. So um it's, it's, it's definitely not like a traditional fluffy white bread. It's a bit denser. The buckwheat has um kind of a nutty flavor. Um We have had some people say that they don't like it but I like, I think they're crazy. It's, it's, it's delicious. Very few people but it has happened. Um probably

Kyle Krull - 00:45:34
people who only eat bread, right? They don't like it.

Maddie Hamann - 00:45:38
Yeah, or like they're expecting to get a white bread replacement and then they're, they get something that's, that's not quite white white bread replacement. Um I would also say like our bread, the sh the shape of our slices is not the square sandwich bread, it's not the wonder bread shape. Um because it is such a dense batter. You know, we cook it in, we have to, we have to cook it in a different way. So you end up getting slices that are much better for like an open face toast kind of situation. Um My favorite way to eat it is with butter.

Adam Hiner - 00:46:15
Yeah. And our buns really? That's why we came out with the buns was to like fulfill that kind of sandwich, you know, or burger situation. If we were to make our bread the size of a normal loaf of bread, like in volume size, it would be like £3 like our bread loaf in the size that it's already in right now. It's like £1.35 you know, for the finished loaf it's more, it weighs more than most loaves out there in the market. So you're getting actually like, kind of more bang for the buck with the weight. But it's just, um, it's a more dense bread but it, actually, when you toast it up it gets this nice fluffy texture that's like super. It's kind of got like the chew or the bite from a sourdough um and the crust from a sourdough kind of. So it's like it's a delicious and great texture. It does like to be toasted like it's nice to really toast it before you eat it.

Kyle Krull - 00:47:09
Yeah, I'm definitely most excited about the burger buns. Um I buy field harvested uh regenerative raised bison on a regular basis and I love to make burgers and it's, it's such a bummer to put a, such an intentional ingredient and meat into a really lame burger bun, you know, that has these fillers and stuff like that. So I'm really excited to have this like really awesome buckwheat regenerative burger bun that I now have to like make the, the most regenerative burger I can possibly think of. So I'm, I'm psyched.

Adam Hiner - 00:47:39
I'm glad to just be on a call with people that really like, understand my, my woes. Like I felt that sweet like we eat the grass burger from this restaurant, but it's probably gonna be on some shitty bun so like, I don't know

Kyle Krull - 00:47:57
your pain at them.

Adam Hiner - 00:47:59
Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:48:01
I'm, I'm curious how y'all are thinking about driving trial? Right? And I'm thinking about is the play really converting regular bread aisle customers to come over to that frozen section and give this a shot? Are you trying to take share from the other kind of frozen bread options? And what does it really look like to get people to try it or get it in front of them when it is a frozen product? And it's not like you can probably demo it super easily unless, unless I'm wrong. Like what, what are y'all thinking about driving velocity and trial?

Maddie Hamann - 00:48:28
Yeah, that's a great question. Um So, um at this stage, we are, we are definitely stealing market share from other gluten-free breads that are already in the gluten-free door customers that are already walking back to that frozen section to buy their bread and seeing us on the shelf. Um You know, right now we, we are definitely like going to be running promotions through Whole Foods like we're going to have an off shelf for two next year, temporary price reductions, all that. Um And we actually like, we've talked about, we've talked about the, the demo piece is tricky because uh they, they can be very, very expensive, they can be very, very ineffective. Um especially when you use like the Whole Foods in house team. Um, most people who have really effective demo programs are they, they're either doing them themselves, uh, like as founders or they're, they're building an in house team to go out and execute or hiring a really, really expensive contractor to do it. Um, so the driving trial piece, you know, we, we have talked about whether it makes sense even to like to, to send people free bread, like, whether that is less expensive than um

Adam Hiner - 00:49:59
Yeah. Yeah, like the cost of a demo versus the cost of sending like 20 free loaves. Yeah, like

Maddie Hamann - 00:50:05
sending people coupons, right? Like to go to Whole Foods and get a free loaf of bread. Um

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:11
So I I actually have a very interesting story here uh from talking to some of the early big investors in s and they had someone on their team go on Facebook and find every Celiac group in the whole country. And basically they sent people in person or they set product there and it caused this like massive wave of demand like at their current retail and they had people like go demand that new doors, like set the product in and it was actually crazy successful and I thought it was super unique and creative that maybe would apply to you all as well.

Maddie Hamann - 00:50:45
That is very cool. I will definitely take note of that.

Kyle Krull - 00:50:49
Yeah, we also just talked about this on a previous episode. Um We, we call it the customer interception where if you have a VIP coupon or something, I don't know if uh if cultivate the broker has like a field team or not. But if you can arm those individuals in store and just have them kind of hang out near the frozen bread aisle, somebody shopping a competitor and be like, hey, try one of these for free. Also compare them side by side. That's a way to meet your exact customer demographic. And to your point from like a customer acquisition perspective, super super low, very, very targeted, likely repeat trial. Like another way you can possibly get, you know, your bread in some some new homes.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:25
Yeah. From a credible source because it's a fellow consumer that like has tried multiple options too. I love that.

Adam Hiner - 00:51:33
Yeah. Yeah. Like demos to your point. They can be very effective like Maddie and I used to do demos, you know, for a time we were doing some local demos and one of the demos I think we saw like 35 loaves of bread like, wow, this is so great that like, you know, the demo effectiveness as you move farther from the company, the founders to the employees to like non employees to like, you know, the Whole Foods Las which are the same as the Costco ladies. Like they're not talking about the about the brand, they might not toast it properly. Like it's going to be a bad experience. Most likely. So um yeah, we're we, you know, as a new brand going into grocery, it's kind of, we're kind of all in the same boat. Like I talk to other brands all the time and everyone's trying to figure that piece out is like, how do we drive trial and the best way that everyone knows is to do price reductions.

Adam Hiner - 00:52:14
But I think some of these gorilla tactics like getting our bread into people's hands just in any way possible, whether that's through some kind of events that we send bread to. We just sent our bread to like a health freedom event out in Texas. You know, just like all the different events that are going on that are have like minded customers, like getting our bread into their hands and just having people try it in different various ways. I think it's a lot more effective to have someone try bread like at an event where they're more social and kind of like more open to trying new things and when they're like grocery shopping and running their errands and there's some person trying to like force them to taste something. It's a little bit more obtrusive. So I think we can be more effective by being more like gorilla with our tactics like Facebook um groups,

Maddie Hamann - 00:53:11
group. Yeah. And, and also, you know, on the, on that gorilla marketing tactics note, we, we raised funds through we funder this year. So we've got like a small army of people who are invested in the company, which is something we would also love to leverage. You know, maybe we send each of them 20 coupons, like distribute these to people, go to Whole Foods and pass these out to people that are at the bread, you know, doing these like gorilla tactics

Kyle Krull - 00:53:44
when people love to share what they love. So to your point like if you can leverage that super engaged community who feels passionate about your bread, like I personally like, I buy regenerative stuff to bring to people's houses all the time. Like try this food. It's so amazing, you know, so the fact that you have that existing community already established is, is huge and I think you absolutely should try to leverage that because there's no more trusted person like a demo rep trying to sell something versus like somebody else who's shopping like that's the trusted like people can listen to that individual.

Maddie Hamann - 00:54:13
Totally. Totally.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:54:16
I, I feel like we've been talking about this Whole Foods launch a lot, but let's just let's tie a bow on that for anybody that wants to try the bread. When is it gonna be in there? What regions is it gonna be in? What are the skews that is, is gonna be in like, let's just put a bow on that for people that want to find and actually

Adam Hiner - 00:54:30
try the product. Yeah, it's, it's in every Whole Foods in the country every region. So we went through global, um, it's, you're gonna find the buckwheat loaf and the buckwheat buns in every single store in the country. And then you're gonna find the cheesy herb in like 300 out of the, like the 465 stores. So you're gonna find three KWS in most stores. And, um, it's getting, it's, it's in like 2/200 stores at this point. The resets are like in process of happening right now. So I think by the end of next week we're hoping that the resets should be done and you should be able to find it in every Whole Foods in the country. Yeah, let's go. That's awesome. Yeah. So it's, we're excited.

Adam Hiner - 00:54:59
We're like, I mean, I'm like logging out of the Whole Foods portal and like looking at the data every day just like did something change. And I'm like, ok, yeah, I used to deal with, with the kombucha brand that I launched. We would get like data in and like every day I'd be checking the, the data. So at some point, you know, we'll back off and I'll check weekly, but

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:38
Amina's fired up for the Whole Foods launch too. She's ready to roll.

Maddie Hamann - 00:55:44
You said Whole

Adam Hiner - 00:55:45
Foods. We got, we got yelled at a Whole Foods when we were doing some promotional shooting with Amina and we were trying to figure out like how to shoot some shots and like something to do with Amina. So we just put her in a watermelon bin and we left her there. It was a plate.

Maddie Hamann - 00:56:02
Yeah,

Adam Hiner - 00:56:03
it was a, it was like a, it was like mostly, you know, used. So there was only a few watermelons in the bottom. We just kind of stuck her in the bed and we were right there but like, we were shooting something and like, someone came, a whole of his employee came out and like found her in the watermelon. Then it was

Maddie Hamann - 00:56:19
just like, started to take her inside and

Adam Hiner - 00:56:21
I was just like, we were just like, that's our name. They were like, you can't leave her, I in bed. We were like, well, you know, we like,

Kyle Krull - 00:56:32
I would have loved to have seen that free childcare, right? So, so we've got the four SKs now we've got some, some massive retail wins happening as we speak, literally, um, walk us through with the next, you know, 135 years look like, is it more skews? Is it focusing on retail distribution? You know, what, what are the priorities for the future?

Maddie Hamann - 00:56:56
You wanna do that one?

Adam Hiner - 00:56:57
I can do it. Um You know, it's an interesting question. We don't have a crystal ball, so we don't know exactly how it's gonna play out. But, you know, we definitely want to target some, some other retail. So, you know, very specific, like maybe we go for Costco Sprouts, um, stores that we know will move high volume that, um, have the right customer, they're searching for organic food. Um, and we want to grow our DTC business. So we wanna, we wanna ramp that. I think after we launch with the sliced bread to DTC, which is next month, we're gonna really see, um, a jump in customers on DTC. And so we want to scale both sides of the business there and then at some point more skews, but we're very cautious to launching more SKU S and having sku proliferation and having, you know, skews dying on the shelf. So I think we really want to be successful and profitable with our four SKs before we consider launching more skews because the more skews we have, the more complicated it is in, in production and when you have some skews, they're doing really well and some that you still have to keep making because you're selling a little bit of them.

Adam Hiner - 00:57:47
It just creates more issues with production, more sourcing issues, more raw materials coming in the facility. Um So we're really focused on getting these four SKUs to profitability and then figuring out the, the next SKUs and the next SKU might be like a sweet loaf or a sweet bread. We'll see. That's definitely something we're, we're toying with. So, you know, it could be a cinnamon raisin or something along those lines. But I think that that's that there's opportunity there. But first, like eyes on the prize, like, get our, our flagship brands. Um, doing well.

Kyle Krull - 00:58:38
Mhm. I think it's really smart. We gotta find some regener

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:42
generations, you know.

Adam Hiner - 00:58:47
Yeah, there's actually, there are grapes. So we just throw the wine industry and be like all the, all the grapes that you didn't harvest below just grapes off the vine and we'll, we'll make great with it.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:03
You might, you might have a small variety issue with those. But I like the train of thought. Cool. What I'm curious if it seems like y'all have a pretty engaged community. Has anyone thrown some flavors at y'all that have really resonated or have like have a big group of people asked specifically for one or two flavors.

Maddie Hamann - 00:59:28
I mean, the cinnamon raisin is a pretty consistent request. That's, that's very likely the next, the next flavor. I'm trying to think

Adam Hiner - 00:59:41
banana bread is a, is a top request. Damn, that sounds good.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:59:46
Yeah.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:47
And

Maddie Hamann - 00:59:48
we have made,

Adam Hiner - 00:59:49
we've made banana

Maddie Hamann - 00:59:50
bread cinnamon raisin and we

Adam Hiner - 00:59:51
used to have a cacao flavor. That was one of the ones we got rid of. It was, it wasn't a sweet flavor though. It was like a savory. It was kind of straddle the line between sweet and savory. And so coming back with like a more sweet cacao flavor or like a chocolate chip or something um could be cool. Our production manager actually yesterday for all the birthdays for the production birthdays. We had four in October in our, at our facility, we made Apple cinnamon uh muffins kind of like buns, but a little bit bigger and chocolate chip muffins and everybody was stoked on the chocolate chip muffins. So, you know, there we have a bunch of bun pans, we can make muffins. So there's, there's a lot of like things out there and we've also thought about other innovation, like um one of the things we haven't talked about is that we use compressible packaging. And so one of our thought processes is like, OK, if we're going to hang our head on buckwheat, where can we take buckwheat and innovate in different aisles and also get rid of plastic packaging, go to 100% packaging in different places like or crackers or whatever the case may be.

Adam Hiner - 01:00:40
So we've got our eyes on some of those ideas too. Yeah,

Maddie Hamann - 01:01:01
sorry. Potential for like a par baked kind of a product that's probably not. Yeah. So like that's probably not the uh the, the highest velocity department. But if you can imagine like a really amazing par baked garlic bread, it's got, you know, like, you know, it was like dirty garlic bread that you used to get when you were a kid and you put, you throw it in the oven and it's like, yeah, really tasty but having like a regenerative gluten free. But version of that, it's like a pull apart. We'll see if that happens. But I'm excited about it if it does.

Kyle Krull - 01:01:43
So ac par baked is like a half baked bread that you take home when you finish the bake at home. Uh, I used to sell Doctor Shar in Australia and they had some par B excuse that actually flew off the shelves. That blew my mind with the velocity on those. Which is weird. Um, however, I, I gotta call you two out if you can't expect people to slice their own bread, I don't know how you can expect them to bake their own bread. So seems a little risky

Adam Hiner - 01:02:07
to me. It's not a high ferity but for the chefs, you know, um like it's probably gonna do well also like, I feel like when we, when I innovate, at least where my mind comes from is like, what problems do I want to solve for myself? And so I personally don't buy anything with plastic packaging or avoid almost like 99% of it. So I'm like, ok, well, I don't eat crackers anymore and I don't need uh cereal anymore because like it all comes in plastic packaging. So I'm like, ok, what else can I solve? Like, what other issues can I solve for myself? And then we can innovate around that if other people, the

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:45
super like nerdy uh innovation question for me on the bread is you also have to be thinking about what people are going to put on it because I'm, I'm sure it's very rare that they're just going to take it out of the freezer and toast it and just eat it plain. And so that also would affect what kind of flavor you want? Like? Are they putting butter on it? Are they putting jelly on it? Are they putting avocado on it? Like?

Anthony Corsaro - 01:02:57
So it's, it'd be so interesting to sit in your shoes and like, try and predict that because I'm, I'm sure there's not like reliable data out there for that. You know,

Adam Hiner - 01:03:10
we just eat the bread every day. So we're like our first, we share with family all the time and we do get a lot of feedback from customers that post, you know, on Instagram of like what they're doing with the bread as well. Um But yeah, and we thought about making condiments as well. You know, we thought about dips and condiments that would go with the bread.

Maddie Hamann - 01:03:32
Adam is from, well, he's from Richmond, Virginia, but his family is from rural Virginia, Virginia. And uh we started making apple butter like the way that they make it down home is with a bunch of sugar like so much sugar. It's crazy. And it's, you don't really need sugar in apple butter. It's delicious without it. So we started making apple butter with this kind of like slightly different process and without sugar. And then, and that's, it's, it's not the obvious direction because it would require different equipment and probably uh probably a different facility, like just with how much or how little space we have to expand in our current location. But yeah, that would be, that would be a good way to go. And also, um, thinking about things that can be like add on items onto an ecommerce order is a really, really strong e-commerce tactic.

Maddie Hamann - 01:04:16
Like how do we get the average order value up by providing something a little different? That's like $6.

Kyle Krull - 01:04:37
That makes a lot of sense. I also, I meant to ask this a lot earlier, why the name PACHA,

Adam Hiner - 01:04:43
the name PACHA comes from PACHA Mama, which is the like mother earth of the native. So um PACHA is just short for that and it's really like our commitment when we, when we, when we decided on that name, it was really like solidifying our commitment no matter what every decision we're like, we're doing better for the earth. And so that's really cool.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:08
Yeah. Love that. That's the perfect uh that's the perfect segue into the final question. Um which really excited to get y'all's opinions on which is how do we get Regen brands? Hi, Amina.

Maddie Hamann - 01:05:23
All right.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:25
How do we get regen brands to have 50% market share by 2050?

Maddie Hamann - 01:05:32
I saw this question on your, your sheet.

Adam Hiner - 01:05:38
There's no,

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:40
there's no right or wrong answers, Maddie, you know.

Maddie Hamann - 01:05:43
Yeah, I mean from a super like from a super practical uh standpoint and also like a scientist that's coming from, like, you know, studying climate change and climate policy and everything. I think 50% market share by 2030 would, would require policy shift. We would need some of these subsidies to be shifted around to be supporting regenerative agriculture rather than, you know, yields of soy and corn. Um, so it's not my favorite answer, but that is my, I

Anthony Corsaro - 01:06:21
think it's correct. Yeah, I think it's accurate.

Maddie Hamann - 01:06:26
I don't know if you have any other thoughts on that.

Adam Hiner - 01:06:28
Yeah, I mean, I certainly think policy is the way to go. It's not my forte. I can't stand politics. I used to think I was going to go into politics, you know, right after college and I just was like, totally disgusted by it. So I decided to go entrepreneur instead and make shift that way. Um But yeah, I think more the other, the other side of that is the economics of just the market and like, you know, it comes from all directions. It's like we need consumers to be buying and supporting regenerative brands and willing to pay the extra dollar right now because that is going to eventually bring down the cost because as more consumers are buying regenerative, the bigger companies, which is already happening, like the General Mills out there, they're going to start investing in regenerative and, and buying regenerative brands and moving some of their products in that direction. As then we get like both the consumer and the products moving in that direction and creating the market for it and then we'll get there eventually. And of course, the subsidies are the other piece of that to make it more affordable and make it happen faster. But I think with the market, like, we can move things fast. You know, it's like it is possible. 50% is a lot and I would love to see that.

Adam Hiner - 01:07:29
Yeah,

Kyle Krull - 01:07:41
I think it's a perfect two pronged answer. You know, I think uh neither, neither will work alone, but they can work in tandem together to get us there. Um But super appreciate the time, super excited to, to buy your brand at Whole Foods in which feels like days or maybe even right now. Um For those who want to learn more, I want to make sure that we share the website. I believe it's LP livep ach A dot com. Is that correct?

Adam Hiner - 01:08:07
Yeah, and we are still raising capital. So if anyone is out there as an investor and looking to invest, the minimum investment is like 25,000 or more. So if anyone has that type of investment wants to support our brand in a bigger way that you know, please feel free to contact us.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:26
Love it. Well, thank you all for coming on man. Appreciate it.

Maddie Hamann - 01:08:31
Thanks for having us. You wanna say bye bye Amina. Oh yeah, there's a way

Anthony Corsaro - 01:08:45
for show notes and more information on our guests and what we discussed on the show, check out our website regen-brands.com, that is regen-brands.com. You can also check out our youtube channel ReGen Brands Podcast for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe to future episodes. Thanks so much for tuning into the ReGen Brands Podcast brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures. We hope you learned something new in this episode and it empowers you to use your voice, your time and your dollars to help us build a better and more regenerative food system. Love you guys.