#75 - Ladd Wahlen @ Roots Potato Chips

Episode Recap:

ReGen Brands Recap #75 - Single-Origin & Regeneratively-Farmed Potato Chips - (RECAP LINK)

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with AI and is not 100% accurate.

Kyle Krull - 00:00:15
Welcome to The ReGen Brands Podcast. This is a place for consumers operators and investors to learn about the consumer brands, supporting regenerative agriculture, and how they're changing the world. This is your host, Kyle, joined by my Coves, AC, gonna take us into the episode.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:00:33
On this episode, we have Ladd Wahlen, who is 4th generation potato farmer and co owner of Roots Potato Chips. Roots Potato Chips is supporting regenerative agriculture with its lineup of single origin, regeneratively formed potato chip products. In this episode, we learn how a college research project catapulted ladd into his regenerative journey, how radically different his farming operations are from his conventional potato peers, and what it's been like to go from farmer to also potato chip manufacturer and CPG brand operator. Ladd's farm is proving that you can build a regenerative model for commercial-scale potato production with the farm boasting 10 times the diversity of conventional farms. A 75% reduction in tillage versus conventional farms and ground cover 90% of the year versus an average of 33% of the year for conventional farms. The Nature Conservancy has made the Wahlen's Farm a demonstration site to help other Idaho potato growers adopt regenerative practices and Ladd and his family hope that the Roots brand can become a commercial engine that incentivizes those same farmers to adopt these practices while being paid for their efforts. Let's go. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The ReGen Brands Podcast. Very excited today to have our friend, Ladd, from Roots Potato Chips joining us.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:01:41
So welcome, Ladd. Thank you, guys. Happy to

Kyle Krull - 00:01:55
be here. We're super stoked to have you. What gets me so excited about Roots is it's one of those categories that everybody participates in. You know, like, who doesn't eat a potato chip, you know, so when we can get region into categories that have that much potential impact and and audience, I get really pumped up. I also was lucky enough to try Roots for the first time, just a couple days ago, so thrilled to to share my experience. But go. Before we get too far into this thing, lad, give us, like, the lay of the land. Like, what do you produce And where can people find your products today?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:02:29
Yeah. So Roots Potato Chips. So we're basically a farm to pat farm to pouch single origin potato chip company, better for you potato chip company. We basically do half of our products in food service and half in retail. So we have 5 flavors, 12s, or 10 SKUs, 5 SKUs, and food service, 5 SKUs in retail. Right now, we're primarily primarily just available, like, in our home state couple surrounding states. So we sell like 95 ish percent of our product in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah. And you can find us anywhere in food service outlets like restaurants, eateries, hospitality, like golf courses, resorts. And then on the retail side, lots of independence, co ops, and then you can find us in select stores of of larger retailers like kroger, Walmart, Whole Foods, in Albertson.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:03:06
So that's primarily where we're at right now.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:21
Are the food service skews actually just also bag potato chips lad, or are they actually different skews? Or it just is basically different because you're selling at a country club, you know, bar versus at a retail grocery store.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:03:32
So they're they're different. Sizes. So, yeah, they're more like they're they're focused more on food circuit sizes. They're they're different UPC codes, different skews. Same flavors, different skews. Pack sizes. Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:03:45
Got it. Cool.

Kyle Krull - 00:03:46
Let's let's talk flavors because this is important. You know, people have like die hard potato chip like feelings. You know? So what what what are the flavor offerings that you all have?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:03:58
You know, so currently, we basically just have 5 flavor So we have traditional sea salt. We have purple sea salt, which don't confuse that. It's not actual purple sea salt. It's purple potatoes with sea salt. On them. And then we have salt and vinegar. We do jalapeno and we do barbecue. Yeah.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:04:05
And we've kind of been all over the the board. We've we've tried like a a couple very unique type flavoring and seasonings, but really these standard ones have been the best and they've resonated the best with the consumers as well. And the biggest demander for those flavors for chips for both, like, retail and and the food service side. So we've stuck with those for now.

Kyle Krull - 00:04:34
I'm sitting next to a bag of the jalapeno as we speak, and I I'm gonna do my best not to break it open and eat it on the podcast for me because it's gonna sound terrible for the listeners. But I think you hit it. I mean, you you got the core. You know, those are the core flavors that everybody needs. So, it's good. I can't wait to try them all.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:04:52
Yeah. I yeah. I'm really excited to talk to you today, lad, because to me, potatoes are a crop that a lot of people I think think it's really challenging to do regenerative maybe almost impossible to do regenerative. And I actually think you're proving quite the opposite. And so I really love that you've kinda just taken that that challenge head on and you can speak very specifically to what that journey's been like and what you're actually doing. But before we get too deep in the weeds, so to speak. You know, this is a multi generational journey for you in potato farming. Take us back to kind of your background. How you started farming differently, and then also maybe how you also started the the brand as well.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:05:31
Yeah. You betcha. So I am actually a 4th generation farmer like AC, like you mentioned, but, basically, our family so for 4 generations, we've been farming potatoes in Idaho. Who would have So it's, it's pretty awesome. I love what I do. I love being raised on a farm. Back in 2012, that's when I graduated from college. So I graduated from college. I came home.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:05:51
I worked on the farm with my dad for a few years, but after a couple years, decided we wanted to start our own farms. So my wife and I, we just we just slowly started to acquire acreage and our own equipment. We started our own farming operations. And we really wanted to diversify a little bit because traditional commodity farming is very difficult. Like, prices are very volatile. There's not a lot of outlets, and those outlets are big players. So your price taker most of the time when you do commodity farming.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:06:15
So we actually tried to do quite a few different things. We raised some different crops that weren't common for our area. We started to transition some of our acreage to organic. So we did quite a few different, organic crops. So, really, the idea was we just wanted to add a little bit of value, to our farm. So basically, we thought, well, okay.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:06:34
What what can we do for the next step as far as processing. And so we thought about a few of the crops that we raised, but potatoes is primarily our big cash crop. So we thought, okay. Well, what can we do here? And potato chips just seemed like the opportunity because there is an opportunity for, like, a local kind of niche unique artisan, the potato chip manufacturer over here. So a little bit of the background story. So once we decided that's what we wanted to do. We went to a commercial kitchen. We rented space.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:07:01
We started a few flavors and we got some feedback from family and friends. And when it was positive, we were happy. We were like, alright. Awesome. I think we're on a good We had a good story. We had a good product.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:07:15
So at that time, we we, we actually decide to put together a small facility, a small production line, So everything is self manufactured. So currently, we self manufacture our potato chips. Wow. And and that's basically the the origin story of the potato chip company. And then regenerative also plays into that as well if you want me to touch on that.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:07:41
Ladd, it sounds like you had almost decided to go kind of vertical integration into CPG before regenerative or, like, what was the order of operations there? Was it that you had already kind of been adding any more value in the farming and you couldn't realize that in a markets you had to vertically integrate into your own brand or, like, what p piece that out for me a little bit?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:08:02
Yeah. They they were both very simultaneous. So, you know, like, so for example, I'll take you back to college. So one of my final research papers I did it. So just to give you a little backstory here. So potato production, conventional fumigation is very common. And so fumigation is basically where you come in, you apply a fumigate, it sterilizes the soil. So you're killing earthworms, microbial life, everything in the soil food web. But it's necessary because there's parasitic nematodes and wire worms that can be damaging to potatoes. That's why chemical fumigation is so common.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:08:30
It's a very, very common, process in potato production. So my research paper revolved around alternatives to chemical fumigation. So one of the things that I researched was was bio fumigation. So biofumigation, for example, it would be basically, you you use like a brassica. So there's certain brassicas like mustard or oilseed radish that you plant as a cover crop. And those grow and they mature.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:08:57
And when you decide to terminate them as these decompose, they release So like the mustard, Nebraska's, they will release chemical compounds, biochemical compounds that are called glucosinolate. And as those are released in the soil, those suppress those parasitic nematodes and stuff like that. And there was great results, great trials with them. So it's something they just interested me so much. Like these these natural methods that we can approach in agriculture, to eliminate or reduce the need of a lot of chemical approaches to culture. So that was part of the start of my journey or interest in, like, sustainable and regenerative agriculture.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:09:36
And then you like I mentioned, when we started our farm, we started our farm in a couple of years after I got home from college. So we dove right into cover crop in minimum tillage, biological products, compost, So we were right in there. So the regenerative side started prior to the CPG start site, start of the CPG, but basically those 2 integrated. And as we started the CPG, we we were able to tell our story about regenerative agriculture and and kind of how that works to our farming operation.

Kyle Krull - 00:10:09
I love that we're talking about parasitic nematodes. And there was another word that you had said before that I've never heard before, like flight like something. Oh, yeah. This is an episode of learning, which I love.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:10:23
And I'm I'm I don't want to spend too much time

Kyle Krull - 00:10:25
on this, but I'm always really curious, like, do you why the individuals on the ground choose to start this new path. I mean, you mentioned the research paper. I'm curious before you even did the research paper, was there an interest in like an alternative method form, like, a nonconventional method. And if so, like, where did that stem from?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:10:42
Yeah. Well, so there's a couple things. So one of those things was, you know, the research paper. I think that was a big part of it that helped me go down a path of looking natural approaches to agriculture. But, like, another thing of that I could probably credit my mom is my mom is very into, like, natural approaches to, you know, health care and medicine and stuff like that. So I think when you have a similar mindset, like in one sector, whether that's you know, medicinal uses or whatever it is. It it can apply in other areas in your life too. So I always have interest in that as well as, hey, what can we do to rely more on now methods or mother nature or whatever it is. So, basically, the combination of those 2 things, having that exposure in college and opportunities to learn and then just kind of things that my my mother instilled in me made me want to take more natural approaches.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:11:20
So that was kind of the the genesis of by regenerative agriculture interest.

Kyle Krull - 00:11:39
That makes a lot of sense. And maybe it's ironic. Maybe it's not, but it as you said, the thought came up into my mind, it's like, you know, as we have prescribe more substances to grow food, we end up having to prescribe more medicine to take care of the illnesses that then that then causes. Right? So, if we can go with a more holistic approach and how we grow our food, maybe we can have a more holistic approach with how we treat our bodies after the fact. So I think you're spot on. There's definitely some correlation there, not just from like, you know, how you approach the world capacity, but like the the ripple effects as well. So yeah, just an interesting thought.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:12:14
Yeah. So, that was kinda how we started our regenerative agriculture journey. And it's been really awesome because it's been a big part of our story for our CPG brand. And so we started in 2021 with the CPG brand and really we've talked about regenerative agriculture on the of the pack since then, you know, about holistic practices and whatnot. And it's been a fun learning experience. Like I had mentioned before, we we we actually have ran. So let's see. About 8 years ago, we ran a model regener farm for 1 of the largest corporations in America, like concerning cereals and stuff like that. So we ran that model regenerative farm, and that got us introduced to a lot of prac and how those could work in our rotation.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:12:53
And then in addition to that, you know, we transitioned some organic acreage and we were increasingly changing and modifying our regenerative practices as well. And then about 3 2 years ago, we entered into in an agreement with the nature conservancy. So we currently run a model regenerative potato farm with the nature And it's been very good and enlightening. We do lots of plot trials and farm trials and stuff like that in regards to potato production. And so that's been very So we're we're very deep into the holistic approaches and regenerative agriculture and potato production right now.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:13:36
Are are you at are they also bringing farmers what you're doing there, Ladd, in terms of, like, the research and trials as well. Like, so it's it's an educational site as well.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:13:46
Yeah. For sure. So there's been a major collaboration opportunity. So, we've held some field days there where we've brought in a lot of farmers. We've done a lot of you know, like local soil health, seminars and stuff like that. We've we've attended quite a few of those spoke of those 2. But, yeah, it's been a great collaborative effort. Lots of farmers have showed interest in it, which I think is very cool. So, yeah, it's been good. It's a it's a good opportunity to network and collaborate and discuss those things.

Kyle Krull - 00:14:17
Well, that I can't think of a better place to be the coolest potato warmer than the state of Idaho. So, I mean, you you need prime in the right location, you

Ladd Wahlen - 00:14:25
know, that's Idaho.

Kyle Krull - 00:14:26
That's perfect. Right? You know, you're just living the dream out there. Yeah. I'll I'll probably start lying. This kind of tees up nicely to, like, you know, let's talk about actual practices. Right? Yeah. You know, it's all good things. But give us a quick, like, you know, juxtaposition. If, like, you know, what How is the conventional potato grown? And what is it that you're doing that's different?

Kyle Krull - 00:14:42
And how does that affect, I I mean, everything? I don't I don't I don't I guess that that's It's a very broad question. But nutrient density, you know, impact of, like, the land and the other thing I wanna just just to, like, like paint the picture, how big is the operation you're farming on relative to, like, a a a regular conventional operation?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:15:13
So it's very similar size. So my my dad still farms, and then we farm. We have our own acreage as well. But, yeah, we we would probably just considered an average family size farm. But talking specifically about the practices, so I'll just try to paint a picture of conventional potato culture for you. So generally, so preceding, the year preceding potato planting, you usually have a cereal in there like a small grain. Because that kind of mellows out the soil. So you have a cereal, a small grain, you harvest it, you come in, you, you deep rip the land, you water, you chemical fumigate, you deep rip again, you deep rip again, and you chisel plow in the spring prior to potato planting. So there's a lot of tillage. There's a lot of chemical fumigation that goes to it. And potatoes, like, by nature, they're very invasive.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:15:53
The process or the production of potatoes is very invasive, I guess you could say, because there's quite a bit of tillage, at least in the conventional model. So a few things that I I don't think we could we could say that we have it perfected, but there's a few things that we've done over the years that have shown very promising results. I'll just give you a few comparisons of what we currently do versus like a conventional model. And I wrote a couple notes here just to make sure I don't miss anything, but For example, diversity, that's one of the big things. So like I mentioned, in a conventional potato crop rotation, like in a 12 month period, you're getting 2 cash crop species. You're getting like a cereal and a potato crop. So that soil is seen only 2 species, 2 different root expedates in that 12 month period.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:16:38
What we're doing is if we have a cereal, then we're coming in with the 12 or a 14 species cover crop, We're planting that in there, and then it's resting until we have potatoes in there next year. So we're having, almost seven times the amount of species in that 12 month rotation is a conventional rotation. So that means, you know, 7 times the amount of species, 7 times the amount of diversity above the soil and below the soil. Which we've seen tremendous benefits of cover cropping. Another big thing which I mentioned was disturbance of the soil, so like tillage, So we have successfully reduced tillage to, like, 75% of the of a conventional operation, which is very big. And I think when you're comparing out to apples. And a lot of potato farmers question me all the time, they say, okay.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:17:25
Well, how do you how do you get to a point where you can reduce tillage? And it goes back to all the other agronomic practices that you're implementing, whether it's cover crops or whatever you're doing to melt out the soil and and implement But, yeah, so we're reducing kilnage by 75%, which has been a very big thing. Living roots and our marine the soil. So like in that general rotation of a conventional potato operation. They're having, like, coverage on the soil and roots probably about 33% of the year. And then we're hitting that 80 to 90 percent, mark of the year where we're having roots in the ground and we're having soil coverage.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:17:59
There's a small window in there when stuff is tilled prior to planning, where you don't have coverage, but we're we're exceeding that by quite a bit. So we're about three times the soil coverage and roots in the ground as a conventional operation. And then, you know, conventional operations, they don't implement, animals. There's no animal integration, but what we're doing is we're putting on 12 or 14 species cover crop. It matures. We're putting ruminants out there.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:18:26
So we're putting cattle or sheep out there. They're grazing. We're getting animal impact. We're getting nutrient cycling. We're getting the biology stimulated. So we're at we're in we're, incorporating those animals The other big thing is we don't use any synthetic pesticides. So conventional operation obviously uses synthetic pesticides.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:18:41
We don't use any synthetic pesticides on our potatoes. And then we have a big focus on compost and biology, versus a conventional operation that folks is more, you know, like on on chemical fertilizers and stuff like that. And then the biggest thing part of it is with the nature conservancy, but we're experimenting in a lot of things outside of like monoculture. So we're doing a lot of companion cropping. You know, we're planting potatoes with veg or potatoes with buckwheat or potatoes. With whatever it is just to see how diversity affects it and what we can do to maybe reduce the need of a a monoculture.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:19:22
And then in addition to that, we're doing pollinator strips. So we're trying to attract, like, beneficial insects so we don't have to rely on any sort of pesticide, whether that be organic pesticide or conventional pesticide. So quite a few different things that we're doing different. Which has been which we've seen very promising results. Like, some of the real results that we see that I've wrote down is to, like, our earthworm counts convert compared to a conventional field are three times higher than like a conventional field. We've seen increases in our fungi to bacteria ratios. Which is very beneficial. And we've seen increases in water holding capacity organic matter.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:19:59
And then microbial microbial activity which we get from soil tests and haney tests is up at least 50%. So there's lots of indicators and metrics that show, hey, you know, this is working. We're seeing positive results. We're seeing good things. So I think we're in the right direction. We're still perfecting a few things, but it's progress over perfection, for sure.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:29
Two questions for you, lad. That was that was amazing and just kudos to you for doing all that and and how you could articulate all of it. My first question is a simple one. And my second question is more complex. The first question is you cannot grow potatoes without tilling, right, because you have to get them to a certain level of depth. That's that's question 1. Can you confirm that? And question 2 is, Can you talk about a little bit about the sequencing of all those practices? Like, did you literally just adopt all those?

Anthony Corsaro - 00:20:46
You know, did you do like these couple first, then these few, and then these few, like, What has that sequencing piece been like?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:21:02
Yeah. Yep. So to answer your first question, from my experience, you know, that there are some people that claim that you can do no till potatoes. And we have attempted them, but we just haven't seen success. So what we have seen is, like, for example, where we're we're reducing tillage to a single path prior to planning versus like 4 or 5 passes, which is conventional. So that's a huge significant reduction.

Kyle Krull - 00:21:31
But

Ladd Wahlen - 00:21:31
we have seen there is a certain amount of tillage that's required just because potatoes require like a loose, a fairly loose soil because you don't want a compacted soil. That'll give you water issues and stuff and just issues with your crop. So, yes, in my experience, there is a level. Maybe one day we'll get to a point where no till is possible with, like, advances in machinery and whatnot. But right now, what I foresee, there is a certain amount of tillage that is required, but how can we reduce that and minimize that? That's the biggest impact. After we initiated our own farm. So probably circa 2015.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:22:01
That's when we, right off the bat, we were implementing cover cropping and minimum tillage and a big reliance on biology. So like biological products and composting. The other stuff kind of came became integrated as we, like, as I mentioned, as we ran that model regenerative farm, as we begin this project with the nature conservancy and stuff like that. So stuff has slowly been implemented, and I would never advise a farmer to jump all in on anything. It's very wise to, like, network and see what works and implement one thing after another.

Kyle Krull - 00:22:41
Well, I gotta say, as you were as you were spelling out all the different practices, like, I was, like, chomping to the bed. I just wanna tear this bag open. Like, I need to eat these right. They sound like I just wanna support this with with everything I have.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:22:54
Kyle's never wanted to eat potato chips more at 9 AM Pacific time than today.

Kyle Krull - 00:22:59
That is the most 100% accurate statement.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:23:02
Yeah. And I I I I forgot to mention one important part I think about our story as well. So and so a couple years, Al, if I mentioned, we trend so we have some acreage that's certified organic, but I basically so just for example, we had a farm that had been in pasture for quite a while. So it hadn't seen cultivated crops for quite a while, but it it had cattle on it. So there's animal impact that the soil had rested for probably a period of 10 years or something like that. So, we prep this ground for potatoes. It was organic potatoes. We applied some compost in one of their biological product.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:23:33
And the yield was above average for our county, and our cost of inputs was probably 15% of that of a conventional operation. So it just absolutely blew my mind just to think, okay. So so you're telling us that if we can get soil health to a certain point, we can get, like, crops, potato crops, whatever the crop is, we can get a crop that's so resilient to pests, to disease that, that soil is able to cycle nutrients and have that beneficial relationship with the plant that we can have this amazing yield and quality. I've never seen quite yield and quality like that. It just blew my mind, but just to think, okay, if this is possible, how can we replicate this system? In traditional potato farming. And I don't know if we could replicate it perfectly because nobody can set aside a farm for 10 years into pasture most of the time.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:24:23
But there are things you can do to promote that soil health and diversity and biological

Kyle Krull - 00:24:35
activity and everything that

Ladd Wahlen - 00:24:35
produces these amazing crop That's really part of the end goal is for us to get to that point where we can say, hey, like, this is super profitable. It's good for the environment. It's good for soil. It's good for the farmer for the bottom line. But that that's really our end goal. It's we know it's possible, but how do we how do we perfect the the process. How do we get there?

Kyle Krull - 00:24:59
Yeah. I super appreciate that shared, lad, and what I love about it is, you know, we, I think AC and I both tend to focus a lot on, like, the agronomy and the cool things that happen. And The fact that there are these, like, economic cases for why this makes sense, I think, is super powerful and super important. And that's the benefit of having, like, the farmer and the brand in the same boat. Right? Because then that margin capture makes it all the way to the end consumer, which is incredible. One of the things I wanna ask you is, like, you articulated all those practices and principles really, really well.

Kyle Krull - 00:25:25
And if you can expand a little bit on some of the environmental benefits or things that you've been able to observe on the land when you started to do these things. You know, for example, you know, keeping your soil covered for roughly what, like, 9 to 10 months out of the year instead of, like, the average 4 for everybody else. Like, What what have you seen with your own eyes change on your land when you start to implement all these different practices?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:25:56
Yeah. So thanks, Kyle. It's a great question. So anecdotally, there's quite a few things, that we have noticed. So the first one is probably Like, we live in a very arid climate, so we get less than 10 inches of precipitation a year. So so it's considered a dev a desert for the most part. So there's long periods of time in the winter where if it's dry, the wind will how and it will blow top soil for mild. So one thing that we've noticed is you'll drive by a field that we have this cover crop residue that, you know, cattle have finished, but it's covering the soil, protecting the soil, you don't see any of that soil erosion. That wind comes by, it blows. Nothing. You you're not losing any top soil. So that's one of the big things.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:26:33
We have seen a big increase, you know, just in general in wildlife. So in biology above the soil like mac biology. So if you're talking about, you know, deer or elk or birds or or whatever it is, there's just more of there's a lot more biology above the soil and below the soil. Like I mentioned before, we've seen a lot more larger numbers of earthworm counts and stuff like that. So we've seen we've seen big environmental improvements, I think, just just from those few anecdotal answers.

Kyle Krull - 00:27:10
I totally believe it, man. And just so, like, this is my my I can't even call it my version of a farm. My front yard, which is very, very small, My my wife and I have been we've been working on putting native plants in the ground, getting rid of the invasives, and because we wanna attract, it's like, quite literally more birds. Like a bird feeder out there and we got native bushes. And now almost every morning, there are quail in my yard cruising around. Like, the bird just started to stop there and hang out. So, I mean, I can only imagine with everything that you're doing on a significantly larger plot of land, like the return of life Like, they they just know. Like, they can sense that there's, like, there's a reason for them to be here, and they're just, like, are drawn to it, which is super cool.

Kyle Krull - 00:27:45
I can't imagine what it's like to see that on your land.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:27:52
It's cool. Yeah. I completely agree. It's very cool. I've done this multiple times, but if you go and if you take a handful of, like, conventionally farm potato soil, dirt. It is chalky and lifeless. There's no aggregates. There's no there's no stability, but it's basically a powder. Like, you could throw it up and go, and it's gonna blow away. Then if you take a comparison of soil that's been that has implemented some of the practice that we've talked about, there's aggregates, there's stability. There's organic matter.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:28:11
You've got earthworms going through it. So it's a night and day difference. It's super visibly easy to see.

Kyle Krull - 00:28:26
There's one other question I keep meaning to ask you to keep forgetting. But you've said a couple times, like, part of your rotation is to mellow out the soil after the potato. So, like, what is it that's so hardcore about potatoes? And, like, so intense on the soil that the soil needs to be mellowed after that rotation.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:28:45
Yeah. So when I say mellow, I mean, generally, like when you harvest potatoes, you don't want clogs. You want to have free flowing soil. If you have clogs, you're gonna be removing a lot of top soil that goes out at harvest time. But generally to mellow out the soil, what you can do is, like, you can have a cereal crop like a small grain or something like that that has a big root system, and that's gonna help aggregate the soil and break up clogs and compaction and everything like that. And in addition to that, what we've seen is having those multi species of cover crops and animal impact. Whatever you can do to, like, get biology turning in the soil, that's gonna help mellow out the soil and and, help the aggregate and stability and everything like that. And at the end of the day, like I said, potato production or harvesting is invasive to a point because you are picking up top soil, but at the same time, you're trying to pick up the minimal amount of top soil that you can.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:29:44
There's something that stuck out to me that I wanna double back to a little bit too, Lad, which is there's this whole conversation around plant based and how we need to shift diets And your whole example of, like, the fertility from that field was from the animal impact and how you're also incorporating it now. And it's like, if we just farm plants in a production agriculture environment over and over and over again, and we never have that biological impact from the animals. Shifting diets is not the answer because we never have fertility to grow anything. And eventually that fertility is gonna run out if you're just constantly cycling plants. Now, you can cover crop and you can bring diversity and you can bring biology in other ways. But we all know that, like, animal impact is the best way. And so Jonathan, whatever his name is from Project Drawdown, just been on LinkedIn talking about, like, the shifting diets thing and how he's not trend of region ag and it just triggers me because it's it's not about shifting diets.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:30:22
It's about producing food in a more symbiotic relationship between animal and plant. Which I'm sure many people could articulate better than I just could, but hopefully that that made sense.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:30:45
Yeah. And I completely 100% agree with the AC, like, animal impact. Like, what, like, in general, we're all about Whole Foods, which is funny because we got, you know, a a potato company, but we love, like, you know, whole whole cuts of meat, whole fruits, whole vegetables, everything like that. Whole foods in general. So I I feel like a dietary shift from animals is not the right direction or an agricultural impact shift from animals is not the right direction either. Because just what we've seen, I mean, obviously, we know that Bison herds you know, roam the the planes for many years. So whatever we can do to copy that or imitate that. And in our rotation in potato production, that's basically how we do it.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:31:16
We're throwing on either sheep or we're throwing on cattle, and we're getting some of that impact. And I don't think there's any way to negate the positive impacts of cattle. Obviously, you have to do it, like judiciously and wise. You can't just do it at any time, but you know, for example, like when we're doing it where the cover crops have grown. They're matured. Maybe they winter kill.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:31:38
We're gonna throw cut we're gonna throw cattle out there and they're gonna start eating and they're gonna start digesting and the whole nutrient cycle process is gonna start going. They're gonna jump you know, microbial activity in the soil, increase organic matter. There's so many pros to it that I just don't see a system that could run without integrating animals.

Kyle Krull - 00:32:05
Totally agree. And that, this this makes me wanna go back to one more thing before we get more into commercialization. But you had mentioned that there's very little rainfall where you are Idaho. And I think that it's it's I don't wanna say it's overlooked, but, like, carbon gets all the, like, oh, we got sequester more carbon and, like, regen sequester's carbon. I think that's really good. But I really think that the water holding capacity is, like, just as if not more important than this water piece, and it's a lot easier to measure. So I'm curious from your perspective. Like, the stat that run lives in my head is every 1% increase in soil organic matter equals 20,000 gallons worth of water of additional holding capacity per acre.

Kyle Krull - 00:32:33
And for you, like, help me to understand because you get a little rainfall, once you started to implement these practices, like, are you actually noticing that you're holding water, like, more water is the water infiltration speeding up? Have you been measuring that over time? What have you seen in that capacity on your farm?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:33:04
Yeah. Kyle, great question. So, yeah, once again, we've seen dramatic increases in, like, water holding capacity. So just for example, this spring, one of our fields that we put in potatoes, we have this 12 to 14 species cover crop. I can't remember how many it was this past year, but it had just idled there over winter. So if you go and you take a shovel a foot down versus like a conventional farm that had no cover crop, it didn't have anything to help retain moisture. It didn't have the buildup organic matter or anything like that to increase water holding capacity, whatnot. Like you mentioned, 1% holds about 20,000 gallons an acre, which huge. But it was a night and day difference.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:33:41
So, like, when you're talking about like saturation, this soil that we had was nearly saturated where this was maybe 50% saturation or something like that. So, I think there's tremendous advantages to water holding capacity in implementing some of these practices. And we've seen it on our farm, and we hope to get more data on it too. And we have plan this summer. We've got a few different teams, regenerative teams that are coming out this summer, and they're gonna take a lot more data measurements and stuff like that. In addition to that, we're certified with SCI.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:34:12
So we have a lot of baseline data that we're gonna use and continue to measure it in the coming years as

Anthony Corsaro - 00:34:21
lot. Let's let's shift a little bit to the brand and the commercial piece. Super, super awesome on the agronomic piece. Learn a ton. There's probably more we can talk about, but we'll save that for episode too. So you've had kind of the brand since I think you said 2020, 2021. You're a 4th generation farmer, but a 1st generation CPG founder. So I guess give us a little bit more of the origin story there and just like, what's that journey been like? It sounds like you been rolling with potato chips the whole time. You've really focused on this more independent distribution, localized regional kind of approach, which we actually think is is great.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:34:48
But give us just a little bit more of the arc since founding to now what what has kinda happened and what's been the the journey a little bit.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:35:04
Yeah. Absolutely. So, it it is quite the story. So if you just think, you know, we're basically, we're a farm family. 0 experience in CPG. I didn't even know what CPG was what it stood for until, like, a year down into the potato jet. I didn't even know that. Like, that that could tell you how much I knew about CPG I knew very little, but basically, like, we have the idea and we've kinda always had the mentality, and that's probably inherited from being you know, raised as farm stock is like, hey, you know, we'll figure it out. We we wanna do it. We have interest in do it. We'll figure it out, and we're pretty limited. On resources because we're in a very rural area.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:35:34
So we had to figure out a lot of stuff for ourselves. So we took some food processing course, food safety courses, we rented a commercial kitchen, like I mentioned before, and we got trial product out there. We got feedback. We kind of toned in our our seasonings and what we wanted to do. And then eventually, we put together this little facility, And we had some interested parties, but, basically, I'll tell you a funny story. So the first, there was a local grocery store that they have, like, 4 or 5 stores.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:36:07
So they're just kind of small little independent chain, but we went and pitched to them first. And they liked the product. They loved the story. And their first question, it was, So can we get you through Kehi or UNFI? And I said, well, who's Kehi? I don't know who an UNFI is.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:36:20
That was my response. I just knew very little about distribution and everything. It it was all new to me, but this was a great little retail company, and they took us into their stores. So, basically, like, our 1st year, oh, man, it was like trial by fire. We we just learned stuff as we we went. It's mostly just my wife and I that kinda ran the company, and then we had a processing crew that helped us as well.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:36:47
But, and we did a lot of the the we knocked door to door pretty much for a lot of retails, restaurants, retailers, restaurants, other things. So it was very grassroots type of thing and very local for the part. So that's how we started our 1st year. And we started, as I mentioned, CPG was very new to me, and I thought we could do a lot more than we could, but We started out with almost 25 SKUs, which that was the dumbest decision I could have. We could have ever made, but We were over it. So our our ideas, hey, we can we can hit the c stores, the retailers, the food service, but we had when we started out, we had several organic SKUs.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:37:26
We had several avocado oil SKUs. We had several sunflower SKUs, and then we had all these food service SKUs. And I learned very quickly that that was just not manageable from a small scale. So since then, we've significantly scaled back. But, yeah, that 1st year was really just learning that 2nd year, it took off. We we pretty much quadrupled ourselves that 4th year, and we had people coming and asking us for product and stuff like that.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:37:57
And then that 3rd year, which was last year, we hit max capacity and we we basically can't add anything on until we get additional production capacity. But that that's basically where we're at right now, but it's been a big journey. I've learned a lot, and I've learned too rely on the experts too for advice too for consultants and advisors and stuff like that as well. But it's been a fun journey. It's been all new to me. But it's good. I think we're on a good positive track right now.

Kyle Krull - 00:38:34
Well, Latta, we need you to very quickly increase your manufacturing capacity because my sales lane is, like, churning right now, like, of all the opportunities around for potato chips. I'm like, man, there's so much. And I'm on the website now. I was

Anthony Corsaro - 00:38:47
like sell some chips, baby.

Kyle Krull - 00:38:48
I'm so ready to sell chips. But there's there's like a bunch of stuff sold out. So it clearly, like, we gotta increase that capacity, man.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:38:57
It's so cool because potato chips, like, when when I think of regenerative, we've we love, like, like I mentioned before, my wife, we love cooking whole foods. That's primarily what our diet consists of, but we freaking love snacks. We eat snacks on every road trip all the time like the majority of consumers. So the potato chips and, you know, the better for you type of the potato chips which we do is really what what got us super interested in this. So, where and then, you know, I think Kyle, you mentioned this before too, but potato chips, and they I have I imagine they probably have a near 100% household penetration in the US. So What a great opportunity to, like, spread the regenerative message and, you know, get get inside a lot of households, get exposure

Kyle Krull - 00:39:42
Totally. And and one thing that we haven't shared on the podcast before, and we won't mention brand names, but there was a different regenerative potato chip company that we had interviewed on the podcast. And they closed their doors after the interview and feel like, Hey, don't publish this because we're going out of business. So it is so great to be able to showcase this category with a brand who's doing it right, and we're super pumped about this. I had a secondary question I was gonna ask you, but I completely I

Anthony Corsaro - 00:40:10
I I think I know what it was. I think I know what it was. Glad you mentioned that you've been telling the regenerative story since the very beginning. So maybe maybe that was the question because that's where my mind was going was. What has that been like from the 25 SKU journey even down to the now limited SKU journey? What has it been like to tell that story from the get go? And how's the feeling?

Kyle Krull - 00:40:30
That wasn't it. And I want I wanna hear the answer to that, but I remembered what it was. When when my wife and I tried the purple sea salt, my wife said specific. She's like, this I like this chip because it looks like just a a potato chip that is just cut very thinly and cooked. So I I'm curious from a production perspective, like, are you doing anything different that is not like traditional for other potato chip companies because I I did notice that as well. It's like it just looks like a cross section of a potato.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:41:02
Yeah. So Kyle, if you're referring to the purple potato chip, like, the only thing different about that is the variety of the potatoes, the purple potato. But, basically, our like, I think the real difference comes from our story and, like, our sourcing. So we're trying to source, you know, obviously, we're sourcing our own potatoes single origin, but we're sourcing very clean ingredients, better for you, oils, stuff like that. And transparency and traceability is a big thing too. So, like, We don't list any natural flavors. We don't list spices. We list everything out on the label.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:41:23
So there there's nothing that a consumer can say, hey, well, what's in this? It's all It's a very transparent and and traceable process, which I think makes us unique as well. But yeah, our process for the most part It's pretty standard. And what's so cool about potato chips is the process is very simple. It's not ultra process. Like, I'll I'll run you through the flowchart.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:41:45
Like, The potatoes come directly from the seller. They get washed. They get sliced. They get cooked. They get seasoned. They get bags.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:41:52
So super simplistic process, not a, you know, not it's minimal processing for sure, but very simplistic process. And I think that's part of what sets us apart to is a very hands on approach. We got a small factory, and it's a simple process too. There's not a lot of altering or or ultra processing that goes on.

Kyle Krull - 00:42:19
Yeah. I love that you spelled that out. It it sounds like something that you could do in your own home. Grange. I don't know anybody who would actually want to make their own potato chips in their own home on a regular basis. Put to your point, like, it's like it's not overly processed. It doesn't require, like, crazy technology to, like, we put things together and it's not Franken food. It's just, you know, it's it's a potato chip, which is fantastic. But I do wanna give you an opportunity to answer AC's question. So AC restate that question so we can get to the answer live against a fantastic question.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:42:47
Yeah. Just curious, lad, what it's been like to tell the regenerative story from the get go and kinda how that has evolved and how you've marketed it, maybe how you've had it on the packaging. We know you are about to have SCI certification or you you now do have SCI certification. So take us through kind of the regenerative messaging journey as you'll have have got this thing launched and developed.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:43:09
Yeah. So initially, in 2021, we in our store, we talked about it on the back of pack. So there's an opportunity consumers to have a little bit of education and awareness and exposure to regenerative, but it was never a priority for us. I I do not know one account that we've landed that had said that's cool that you have that you promote regenerative agriculture. Every every account we landed was because we were like an artist in potato ship company. We were local. We had a good product that people liked it, and they wanted to bring it in. But we, tons of, you know, non GMO glyphosate free. Do you use pesticides?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:43:37
So this it never really revolved around regenerative, which I always thought that was team, but I think just and you guys have mentioned this several times, but there's so little consumer awareness and education around regenerative that I, I think it's more still very early in the game. The one that I will say that it has prioritized it is Whole Foods. And so we're we're only in a few Whole Foods accounts. We actually got approved for, some additional expansion, which is awesome. We're pretty excited about that, but they are the ones that have been a little more promoting of the regenerative movement. And so, you know, we're working with the local forager and stuff like So I think definitely, like, moving forward, we're really gonna target the natural channels and we'll so we wanna be able to tell our regenerative story a little bit better So that's kind of why we sought, sought out the SCI certification, but we we have told our story very much as far as regenerative agriculture.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:44:22
But it's never been a priority for the buyers so far. So either either we need to change who we're targeting or I'm not sure, but I I think it's definitely on the cusp like it's coming, but we're it's just it hasn't been a priority yet for any of our buyers.

Kyle Krull - 00:45:02
I mean, that's both I don't wanna say disappointing. It's interesting, and it could it could it's like a testament to the strength of your brand. Right? If you don't have to rely on regeneration, it's like your number one attribute, then fantastic. And to your point, I think we're still sort of on the cutting edge of regenerative right now, and it's not yet fully adopt mainstream, and we're getting there. Man, I don't know. I'm lacking today. There was a really good question I had queued up, and it just totally floated out of my mind.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:45:29
The the universe just knows when I need to add on things to what what you're saying. So let me let me just jump in with agree with everything you just said and also Something we talk about all the time on the show is just it's not a primary purchasing driver. And I think we're almost of the belief, like, it's not maybe ever gonna be, especially for the vast amount of consumers. And so what you just listed off, it tastes good. It has a unique story and it's local. Those are still things that are all valued way more than regenerative. And regenerative is this very kind of deep nuanced topic that we need to unpack kind of into those primary purchasing drivers because it's hard to kind of educate a consumer on it holistically and and turn it into 1 because it's not this binary easy to understand thing like a lot of claims in in CPG.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:46:13
Yeah. AC, I I completely agree with you too. Like, I don't think it's been a priority yet, but we do get lots of feedback from consumers that say, hey, got your product, read the story, absolutely love the story about regenerative agriculture. So I know it's catching on on the consumer and at least to a certain point. Just not on the buyer side. I just haven't really seen that prioritized or even, you know, but I think it's definitely moving that direction, which is very which is very cool.

Kyle Krull - 00:46:38
I remember my question, which is great. And and, Ladd, Ladd, to your point, I think that we we talk about on a regular basis. We think that there's a loyalty attribute to regeneration. So, you know, maybe it's not the primary purchase driver, but it gives you a different level of engagement opportunity with your consumer once they've tried the product, and that could bring them back over and over again, right, because that is something truly unique to you in this category. The question I wanna ask was SCI. We've talked a lot about a variety of certifications on the show, but we have not spent a ton of time showcasing the amazing work SCI has doing. We consider them great friends. Adam and his team are fantastic.

Kyle Krull - 00:47:11
Kristen's a rock star, but help us understand, like, why you wanna work with SCI and how working with them is impacted both your practices on the farm and or your approach to market.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:47:29
Yeah. So we're super excited to work with SCI. We actually explored several regenerative certifying bodies previously, but SCI aligned most with what we wanted to do. So we were super excited to get into partnership with them. We've worked a lot with Adam and Megan on the brand side and Taylor on the farm side. So it's been a very unique and fun experience. Our journey, for the most part, all practices we were already implementing. So it came down to paperwork. So we had to document everything, you know, take some baseline tests and stuff like that in order to get certified, but there was quite a bit of back and forth there, which was very good.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:47:55
What I really appreciate about SCI, probably the thing that I appreciate the most is context. I don't know, regenerative certifying body that takes context so much into consideration as in potato crops is so much different than corn or soybeans, or if you got grassland that you're grazing cattle totally different. And although you can apply the same principles, obviously, you're still targeting those same principles, they're gonna be implemented completely different than a different operation. And SCI understands that, which I've really appreciated that. They say, okay. Well, in your operation, what can we do to implement this is? How how's that gonna look?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:48:37
Because it's gonna look different than a quarter, a soybean, or a or a cattle operation, or whatever it is. So that's one thing I've really appreciated. They've been good. STI has been working with, like, Whole Foods to recognize their certification too, and I think they're pretty close in the approval process. But I think they're gonna be a great partner moving forward in helping align with retailers and get their certification accepted by retailers as well.

Kyle Krull - 00:49:14
I love that answer, and I wanna elaborate a little bit on one piece there. And it sounded and correct me if I'm wrong here, but my of what you just shared was. Instead of, like, a top down, hey. This is what you have to do, and this is how you have to do it. It's, hey. Here's the principle, and here's what we're looking to achieve. Let's have an open dialogue about what we can do together to ensure that we're ticking that box. Right?

Kyle Krull - 00:49:29
So is that more of how it has worked for you, or am I misinterpreting that?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:49:38
Yeah. Nope. You're exactly right. So, basically, like, they have, like, a process and an outcome approach, but it seems like some certifying bodies just have a process approach. So if you're not doing if you're not doing these certain methods or certain processes, you're not gonna be able to get certified. But where at the end of result, I think you have to balance both of them. Obviously, there has to be certain practices that you are implementing certain processes, certain methods, in agriculture. But at the end of the day, if you have the results, if you have the increasing organic matter, water holding capacity, you know, biology diversity. If you're seeing all these metrics improve, that means in fact that you are regenerating the soil, even though my this might be a little bit different than the cattle rancher down the road or the corn farmer, whoever it is. So, yeah, I've I've appreciated that about SCI.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:29
Lad, you you got a ton going on here, man. I'm I'm curious kind of, like, to me, when we talk about these vertically integrated brands, it's almost like 3 separate businesses is is especially if you own the manufacturing. Right? You have the farming operations. You have the manufacturing operations, and you have the brand operations. And in a lot of ways, those need to be funded differently. In a lot of ways, sometimes you have to fund them the same or, you know, there's all kinds of corporate structure and and capitalization kind of thoughts and processes there.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:50:46
But How have you funded this whole thing? And what does that look like in the future? I'm curious if you could share some some thoughts on that.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:51:01
For sure. Yeah. So up to this point, we're self funded. My wife and I, we are the only owners, of our operation. So we own all the equipment processing facility. The whole brand itself has all been self funded.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:51:14
Wow.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:51:15
And it's been quite the learning experience. Like I mentioned, we're we're we're very relatively small still, but we have the option to significantly scale up. We have so much interest in our brand from distributors and retailers and copackers, copacker inquiries, private label inquiries, just based on that's a big thing about some of our regenerative certification. We've had lots of private private label inquiries as well. So there's so much potential. And in addition to that, I don't wanna get too crazy because hopefully I I learned from my past history, but we do wanna implement maybe a couple additional SKUs that have a separate target. But we're really looking to expand. That's what we wanna do. We have to do it carefully because obviously capital is hard to come by.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:51:52
So what we really want this to be is a good kind of a cooperative or a collaborative project. So what our goal is, we want to bring in neighboring and outside farmers and expose them to some of our regenerative practices allow them to come and be able to pay them a premium for regeneratively regeneratively raised potatoes and kind of help this regenerative movement in our area. That's really what we wanna do. The issue that we're having right now is how how to fund it exactly. So the these, these next few weeks, we do have some actual conversations with some potential partnerships. The only issue or hesitancy that we have is a lot of these potential partnerships aren't necessarily prioritizing regenerative agriculture. It's more so a business front.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:52:35
So we we're hoping that doesn't get diluted at all because that's really what we wanna do. We want this to be a a good project for the area and local economy. And there's so much potential and interest from neighboring farmers, but there's not an adequate outlet for regenerative potatoes. Which we could provide if we're able to scale up. But that's what we wanna do because really at the end, one of the biggest incentives for farmers to change practices comes down to show me the money. You know, what what are the incentives? What kind of premiums can I get?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:53:11
And that's really the direction we would like to head but as far as expansion, we're we have a couple things on the table right now, but that's just what that's currently what our current status is.

Kyle Krull - 00:53:26
Like you mentioned expansion, I'm curious from, like, a future perspective. You said maybe a couple new SKUs. We've talked about capacity constraints right now. But do you have any sense of, like, here are the new SKUs we wanna add. Here are the markets we wanna focus on next. You know, like, you wanna double down in fruits or you want to explore new retail distribution. What does the future hold and how are you prioritizing those different growth opportunities? Cause it sounds like you've got quite a handful of opportunities available right now. So I'm curious to to understand, like, how you're thinking about the best way to grow the business and really, like, to your point, it's not really about growing the business.

Kyle Krull - 00:53:54
It's about how do we get more people growing regenerative potatoes?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:54:07
Yeah. Thanks, Kyle, for the question. So for sure, like, right, as soon as we have expansion, so we've put so many things on the table right now that we've just had to put on the table. But, What our plan is, as far as retail retail, we wanna target the natural channel because I think that is probably the natural channels was gonna prioritize regenerative certifications some of the other certifications that we carry the most. So we wanna continue to expand with Whole Foods, hopefully, which I said they approved us for a some expansion later this year. And then we wanna target additional natural, retailer chains as well. So I think that's where our priority will be. In addition, food service, I freaking love food service.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:54:35
It's so awesome, but my experience so far is it pays well. There's not there There's not a lot of discounts. There's not these big promotions that you have to do. There's and we I like we we we haven't had any discounts. Or anything, any spoils or anything from the 3 years that we've been in food service. But then, like, for example, on the retail side, We onboarded with a large retail distributor earlier this year. In March, we've delivered 15 POs.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:55:03
We haven't been paid for 1 yet. So it's just crazy. So I would really I I would really like to grow both on the food service side and the retail side, but I wanna focus in certain channels that I think we can have the best growth. Like, I I we really gotta be aware of, like, you know, slotting fees and free fields and all that stuff. That's something that I think, hopefully, the natural channel can assist us with a little Yeah.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:55:41
The state the state of the go to market in CPG for everyone is just not in a good spot. And your your downstream actors are really taking advantage brands, especially small brands and not understanding the context that they live in whatsoever. And you add on top of that, the fact that most regenerative brands are already doing to work, investing more in their business, investing more in their supply chain, selling at a premium, and economics don't make sense. And we've, you know, this is one of many examples now we've had where people say, hey, look. As a business operator, like food service is a much more attractive channel, from a current business and a growth perspective and can't blame you there because you know, we we have to fix some of these really core issues both for regenerative brands and non regenerative brands because it's it's a mess right now. Not not to derail us. I'm sure we could spend a whole hour on that, but it's a sad state of affairs at the moment.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:56:29
Yeah. I think it's in a really good direction. Like, I think we really just wanna prioritize those natural retailers that are really gonna that that that they have a priority to land or to bring in regenerative products and stuff like that. So I think it's a very bright and optimistic future, but just like doing that carefully. Being careful of what retailers, how quickly we expand, are we going deep? Are we going wide? And what are we doing there? And then food service has been awesome too.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:56:50
So we wanna just grow food service, I think, as quick as we can. Because we get great exposure that way and, it's it's been a great return on our investment as well.

Kyle Krull - 00:57:07
Think that makes a lot of sense, and this is one of those recurring themes that continues to pop up on episode after episode for for the brands who have played in food service. It can be a profit driving channel that can help fund the retail growth when the time comes. And to your point, lad, like, if you go for, like, a national distribution across a country at a handful of retailers in the in 1 year, that upfront cost is so significant with all the free fills, with all the slotting, with all the distributor required, introductory promotions. Like, it is so hard to maintain some level of, like, you know, net revenue coming in the door. So I think you're you're super It's a really good strategy to kinda creep your way through retail, let food service fund that, and maybe ta tackle, like, the right retailer in a NASH channel for 1 year. And then the next year, go for the next one because that way you're not dealing with all those upfront costs for all of them at the same time because it'll just suck all the money right out of the operation.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:58:04
Absolutely. 100% agree, Kyle. That's why, like, we really we wanna grow. We wanna be in the right doors, the right places, make sure our velocities are good, and then food service is going well too. But we wanna be very aware and cautious, although optimistic, but very we wanna tread with caution as far as how quickly we grow. We're self funded. We wanna make sure we got good cash flow and can keep things moving.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:27
Mhmm. And that's that's the whole point of this podcast is what you've already mentioned earlier, lad, just about, the brand growing can be a vehicle for more regenerative potato growing adoption. And that's like the whole point I think we're trying to make across all the episodes and across all the work we do. But to do that, the business of the brand has to thrive and grow profitably and smartly. Right? And so you have to kind of protect yourself from getting over your skis. And if the brand never exists, you're never gonna have any of that impact on the land.

Anthony Corsaro - 00:58:52
And you know, we feel like sometimes people look super upstream, focus on the Bracks adoption and don't figure out that commercial lens. And then we have a bunch of people figuring out the commercial lens that don't have the right funding or the right growth opportunity to then support the the agriculture adoption. So you know, definitely definitely some some anomalies there like yourself that are doing the right work the right way that are having a great impact and Hopefully, we'll continue to see that across the board, across a lot of different brands and commodities.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:24
Absolutely.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:59:25
100% agree, AC.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:28
Where in Idaho are you?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:59:29
We are in Southern Idaho, so probably a little closer to southeastern Idaho.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:35
Does east of, like, Twin Falls area?

Ladd Wahlen - 00:59:38
Yeah. But pretty close to the Twin Falls area. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. If you're familiar with Southern Ida.

Kyle Krull - 00:59:45
Okay. I'm gonna come visit. That's what I'm asking. I'm gonna drive over. Thanks.

Ladd Wahlen - 00:59:49
I'm

Kyle Krull - 00:59:49
gonna help you grossing when I say help, I'm gonna learn from you and just like, we'll show. So

Ladd Wahlen - 00:59:55
Dude, come down. We got plenty of people coming down this summer. We're excited about. We got we're we got teams coming down to do, like, nutrient analysis and nutrient density analysis and soil testing, all that stuff. So we're excited. It's gonna fun summer.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:00:09
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's a good that's a good segue into our final question, lad, which we know you're aware of. If you've listened to some episodes, But we'd love to to get your take on it, which is how do we get regen brands to have 50% market share by 2050? You know, I've heard that question so many times, and there's been so many good answers, that I feel like

Ladd Wahlen - 01:00:32
I could just piece together what everybody has said in aggregate it, and it would suffice. But I think, like, it's kind of unique because I can speak from the farmer's perspective and from the brand perspective, which I think is a little bit unique, but Like, from the farmer's side in order to help, like, the regenerative supply chain grow. And I think policy is such a big thing, and there are some things in the farm bill that are, headed in the right direction, like the climate smart grant, the commodity, the money that's going through there to incentivize, like cover crop and sustainable ag. Adoption and stuff like that, but a shift in policy that's incentivizing regenerative agriculture to a point where farmers wanna do I think that's a huge part of it. And then the other part of it is, like, working downstream to upstream. So instead of farm to table, it table to farm. So the consumers that are prioritizing it on their table, you know, on their plates.

Ladd Wahlen - 01:01:18
And then, obviously, it's just working up supply chain, not retailers see a demand for it. They're requesting it from brands and manufacturers, and I think that's the way it has to go. And a big part of it too, which is probably a little controversial, I think, too, is, you know, like, the US is so accustomed to, like, cheap cheap food, like cheap in the essence of, like, nutrient density and cheap in the essence of, like, less expensive. I think there has to be, like, a slight mind shift there of, being willing to pay a slight premium for regenerative brands because at the end of the day, if the farmer is not getting paid a premium, there is very little incentive for them to change. There there are far and few between that, like, wanna change in a dog practices that are more for soil health. At the end of the day, it's more it's more about, you know, their bottom line and profitability.

Ladd Wahlen - 01:02:07
So, yeah, a change in policy and consumer adoption and preference, I think, definitely be a big thing.

Kyle Krull - 01:02:20
Well, I think you're spot on, and I think you you're kinda touching on, like, a cultural piece of, like, the food culture in the United States. That's something we haven't talked about too much. Things popped up on maybe 2 or 3 episodes, but I think you're spot on, and I I don't know what the answer is. Like, how we get people to shift the way they think about food, not just from a impact on the ground perspective, but impact on human health perspective. To me, it almost feels like there needs to be, like, a really great, like, A list after a movie with, like, an amazing love story, but also happens to revolve around this question of food. You know? I don't know if there's any movie producers out there who wanna try to figure out how to do that, but, like, maybe that's what we need.

Kyle Krull - 01:02:50
I don't know. But I think you're right. Like, this I just finished the end of craving. I'll talk about this book for weeks. I'm sure. But they talk about the food culture in Italy and how they consume huge quantities of like me and pasta and fat.

Kyle Krull - 01:03:02
And they're super healthy people because they're eating real unprocessed food. You know? And it's it's here in the US, we focus so much on, like, diet and exercise, and, like, we're still, like, the most one of the most obese countries in the world, and it's really not, like, a lack of effort. It's a lack of incentivization for, you know, good agricultural practices and creating good, real, healthy food. That was a huge expansive monologue that probably didn't make much sense, but long story short, I hear what you're saying, and they resonate with me. And maybe it may be something of that. It made some kind of sense to someone.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:03:43
That was great, man. Yeah. Now you can go eat your chips. Lad, this has been awesome. Really appreciate it.

Kyle Krull - 01:03:49
Open this bag right here. Like, this is true. Like, it's happening.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:03:53
We got some ASMR chip bag opening.

Kyle Krull - 01:03:58
Last thing last thing for any listeners who wanna learn more, check out rootschips.com, pick some up. Like, I I'm so stoked for what you do with that. This is awesome. And thank you so much for the time, man.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:09
Yeah. Thanks. Hey.

Ladd Wahlen - 01:04:10
Appreciate you guys. You guys are doing awesome work. I think it's great. Love the podcast. Love the education awareness. Great job, guys.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:04:20
For show notes, episode transcripts, and more information on our guests and what we discuss in the show, check out our website regen-brands.com. That is regen-brands.com. You can also find our regen recaps on the website Regen recaps take less than 5 minutes to read and cover all the key points of the full hour long conversations. You can check out our YouTube channel, ReGen Brands podcast, for all of our episodes with both video and audio. The best way to support our work is to give us a 5 star rating on your favorite podcast platform, subscribe to future episodes, and share the show with your friends. Thanks for tuning in to The ReGen Brands Podcast. Brought to you by the Regen Coalition and Outlaw Ventures. We hope you learned something new in this episode, and it empowers you to use your voice, your time, and your dollars.

Anthony Corsaro - 01:05:03
To help us build a better and more regenerative food system. Love you guys.